NJCubScouter

Hmm. I think the examples you give show that Change #2 does not necessarily follow Change #1 by "a few years." "Den Mothers" were first introduced in 1932, and 56 years later there were female Scoutmasters. That's an awfully long time for someone to walk through a crack in the door. (And I realize there were some interim steps along the way like women becoming troop committee members, but 56 years is still a long time.) Then, from the "crack in the door" in 1988, it will be 30 years (2018) before non-Venturing female youth members walk through the door. Also a long time.

Until the day when community strips are re-introduced, I see nothing wrong with wearing whatever council patch (of your council) you wish, as long as you "qualify" to wear it - i.e. a Philmont CSP only if you went to Philmont, etc.

I assume most of the positions on that list would be a "tie", not a single individual. When a program or a position was created, presumably a number of people started simultaneously. Right? Although "Webelos Leader" is not on your list, I believe that position was created in 1967 (when the original "Lion" rank was abolished and Webelos became a separate den) and that my father was one of the first "Webelos Leaders." It was treated differently from other "den leader" positions. For one thing, only a man could be a Webelos Leader at the time, while of course other dens still had "Den Mothers."

41 pages, but only about two-thirds of it has been on the subject of the thread.

Stosh, how do the patrols "get" the money? Fundraising by patrol? Or they contribute based on whatever jobs they may have, or money from their parents, or what?

Me too, and me too. My daughter is now in her early 30's and still gets anxious in certain situations, but she works in customer service (by telephone) and is being considered for a supervisory role, so apparently it can be overcome, at least to a significant degree. 5thGenTexan, for the Roundtable situation, I'm just guessing but it sounds like the issue there was being in a roomful of strangers and not knowing what to expect. Did you have anyone with you who you know, like another leader in your pack? If not, I think the next time you go to RT you should get one of your fellow leaders to come with you. At least that way there is a familiar face. The same would probably help if you decide to do BALOO, Woodbadge, etc. Sort of an adult version of the buddy system, but for different reasons.

It's kind of funny, all of these discussions eventually get around to some version of "We'll see what happens." That's all we can really know for certain.

Those are good questions. I think BSA National has given an answer to the last question. Somewhere there is an FAQ from National that says that the new age-11-ish-to-17 program for girls will be ready to accept crossovers who are in fifth grade in the 2018-19 school year. I am a little skeptical about that, because previously they said the 11-17 girls program is "projected" to be available sometime in 2019. Now all of a sudden the program is going to be ready at crossover time in 2019, meaning somewhere between January and April 2019 depending on the pack. I'll believe that one when I see it. Not to mention the fact that this is all a matter of local option, and it is a lot easier to accept girls into an already-existing pack than to create a whole new troop - even if it is only on paper. There may be many places where there is no "girls' troop" within a reasonable distance, and therefore in practical terms, no place for the girl-Webelos to cross over to. I do not think National has answered your first question or group of questions, which concern how a girl-Webelos is supposed to do the preparatory work with a troop in order to get the Arrow of Light. Hopefully they are working on that.

Well, they do have at least a "family camping" program, which is coed, don't they? Formerly known as Indian Guides, now known (I believe) as Adventure Guides, though I am not sure if that is the correct name for their "older youth" program. I don't really know much about it.

My guess is that current Girl Scouts are not necessarily the most likely "market" for this. I think that girls who have quit the Girl Scouts, or never joined, are much more likely to join the Cub Scouts. That's just a guess, of course.

We need to stop talking ABOUT personal attacks, as well. If someone has a complaint about someone else’s behavior, there is a flag report system. If someone has a complaint about an action by a moderator, they can email or PM SCOUTER-Terry. Going forward in this thread, we need to EITHER discuss THE TOPIC, which is the upcoming change in BSA policies and programs, or else bring this thread to a close. I (and the other moderators) prefer to have threads come to a natural conclusion. But if this discussion does not get back to the topic immediately, and stay there exclusively, this thread will be locked, and if necessary, other appropriate action will be taken as well.

They don’t, and they need to stop, now.

Well, I hope the BSA makes clear, and universally known, what is changing and what isn't. Given my often-expressed criticism of the BSA for never properly informing the "field" (i.e. us, including those who don't read Internet Scouting forums) of what we need to know, I'm not betting a lot of money that they will.

Well now I'm confused. I thought we were discussing tenting policy in relation to Cub Scout family camping (in which every tent has a Cub Scout and his parent(s).) Now you are talking about the leaders-of-both-genders-on-coed-outings rule, which is a separate issue from sleeping accommodations. ?

Messy and a Youth Protection problem as well. The YP guidelines say the youth may share a tent with a "family member" but nobody else. Grandparents, uncles and aunts are ok; in my son's pack there was always a kid or two whose uncle was there instead of a parent. The rest of your list are not permitted though.

Unless I am misunderstanding your scenario, I thought that WAS allowed. For Cub Scouts.

Well, there you go. National thought they were being clever, but they outsmarted themselves.

You'll have to ask them. I agree that the BSA has not been as forthright about this whole thing as they should have been. In fact I started a thread about it a few months ago - specifically about my council sending emails to local Scouters inviting them to the meetings where this subject was going to be discussed, and not mentioning that it involved increasing opportunities for girls in Scouting. Other councils (though not all) did something similar. And it was the people who attended those meetings who were "officially" invited to take the survey. So, I'm with you. But for myself, now that this is a done deal, I just don't see the point of complaining about it. Others, of course, may complain as they wish. What I was commenting on was this idea that some people have that the word "family" means a change in the program that involves a new role for parents, rather than just girls and young women.

I really think that the BSA is using "family", in this context, as kind of a euphemism for "boys and girls." I think that what a lot of people here are afraid of is that "family" means an intentional increase in the role of parents in the program. I don't see any indication that that is the case.

Getting back to the original post, I have my doubts that the BSA would do this kind of advertising campaign From what I have read in this forum, there seems to be a different "culture" regarding volunteering for Scouter positions between the US and UK. In the UK there seem to be a substantial number of people who sign up to help out, and then they are "assigned" to a unit. That being the case, a centralized advertising campaign would make sense. However, in the US, at least in my experience, the vast majority of adult Scouters are "related" to the unit in which they volunteer: They are parents of either current or former Scouts in the troop or were in the same troop themselves. In Cub Scouting the vast majority are parents of current Cub Scouts, occasionally someone will stick around after their son has crossed over, and sometimes a Scouter with the Boy Scout troop at the same CO will help out. Finding unit volunteers is really left mostly to the local unit level. At least that is my experience. So I don't know if that kind of advertising campaign would work here.

Brian, I don't want you to feel that a group of adults are trying to pressure you into doing something you don't want to do. Although we kind-of are. And you did ask our opinions.

Well, admittedly this would have been a very tough sell for my son. It is an individual decision, but I will say that you have a chance here to show Scouting in its best light, not to mention yourself. If at least, say, four of you are doing it, then you are doing it as part of a group. There is strength in numbers. If you decide to do it, you might want to go to the two Scouts who have decided to do it and say something like, "I'm in, let's all do it together." Added note: I agree with some of the previous posters, your friends may react differently from how you think they will. They already know you are a Scout, they make fun of you for it but it must not be too vicious because they are still your friends. You can show them what they are making fun of, and it might get them to think a little.

Or start another thread.

This is me in my role as a fellow forum member and Scouter, not as a moderator: Could we please keep the president out of this, unless he actually says something about the subject? Discussions of this subject have great difficulty staying anywhere near the topic as it is. If you want to discuss the president, pro or con, please start a different thread.

The BSA says the options will be 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 (though the program does not have a name yet.) They have not said there will be a 7, and I don't think that any recent statement suggests there will be. They haven't even mentioned 4 and 8, I think those were invented by some members of this forum.