MattR

This is not helping. Done right, this would be good. My dad was invited to a school in Germany where he grew up to talk to kids about what he lived through. In all honesty, it did him at least as much good as the students.

Until there's a discussion as to how their money is spent and how much is spent, i.e., how much they need to survive, arguing about percentages is meaningless. The BSA/councils are guilty of not describing their finances and the claimants are guilty of ignoring the fact that they can never get all the money they'd like to get. Right now there's no such thing as fair. This is mostly people just trying to skew the vote to their advantage. To what ends we'll have to wait and see.

Tetanus is also required every 10 years so you do have a record of it. Call your doctor.

I'm not talking about using quality tools. I'm talking about having a group of people whose focus is program quality and they have a respected position at the table - someone that will push patrol method and be respected, for example.

It reminds me of many other similar conflicts that organizations have. Developing software and testing software require different mindsets. One can do both but the changeover from one to the other is not easy. There needs to be respect for both sides. When one gets cheated (and it's always the one furthest from sales) it harms the product. Toyota has quality above features and they charge a premium for that. It would be great if the bsa understood this concept. It might be painful at first but they'd be in a much stronger position if quality had more people's attention. YP or program, it

Taking over? Sounds like it already took over for you. Ask your wife. I know of many people that got in too deep, never said no, got burned out and then got angry. They left scouts, never to help out again and are bitter as well. To be honest, I've seen this often enough that I've come to the conclusion that there's something wrong with the program. It takes too many adults to make it work.

A few observations: They're now haggling. The result will be somewhere between the extremes. If @CynicalScouter is correct it will be between $0.5B and $1.5B from the councils. Next, the discussion about how much a council needs is not quantitative and I wonder if that has to do with the notorious lack of transparency. Finally, I don't see any teamwork between councils. I'm not sure if that's the plan or if it's even possible given all the complexity, but if it continues this way then the poorer councils will just get more so.

Good point. I didn't even look at whatever caused this. Either way, insulting people in this discussion is not acceptable. At the same time, calling someone a lying liar ... made me laugh (just because of the grammar). However, we'll remove that post. In the meantime, let's get back to discussing ideas and not personalities.

Welcome to the forum, @UpstateNYCC I can't answer your question. It's a sorry mess and proof to me that Eagle has been over sold. The only option I can think of is talking to the scout and asking him what he thinks the right thing to do is. He might have matured enough to realize what was wrong. If so, he's learned a lot. If not, eagle won't bring him any good.

Touched a nerve I see. Is "you have no integrity to accuse him the way you have, Mr Boy Scout Skeptic" supposed to be an insult? Either way, if you want to defend Mr Kosnoff and explain why he doesn't want to burn the BSA to the ground then enlighten us, but insulting forum members isn't helping.

Welcome to the forum, @Needhelp434. I can think of much worse mistakes to have made. I'd suggest talking to the person that was supposed to sign it. You may be at their mercy but assuming there was nothing unusual about your fundraising they may give you a pass. As usual, prepare for the worst but stay optimistic.

Maybe gear is like computer storage. The more you have the more you need. As a scout, we didn't have patrol boxes or trailers. We divided up what we needed for a campout, everyone took their share. We could carry our gear, even though it often wasn't far. I tried going back to that model when I was SM but it was a battle. "We have a big trailer and lots of Suburbans, why make the scouts work hard? Bring everything!"

I like the poster. Rude and mean are great opportunities for growth, so don't throw the baby out with the bath water. My experience with scouts is that rude and mean are often in context where there's conflict between scouts. Showing them how to deal with the conflict has been more productive than focusing on rude and mean. I talked to a scout once about standing up to bullies and his response was enlightening. He said that there was very little to no bullying at his school and there was a lot more fuss about it by the adults than warranted. This was a fairly shy scout in a large public

This is one of the best observations I've seen. As there isn't enough money to cover typical payouts, all of the discussion about how to compute a final amount is only good for showing that there isn't enough money to go around. Past that, the only measure is "pain" to the debtors. I suspect it's the unwritten rule in the room, at least for the judge, and all the details are just a way to talk about what they can in a bankruptcy case - money - while the underlying discussion is about pain. I'm not sure why the claimants don't just bring it up directly. As for the renewed pain of the

The Moderators work in mysterious ways.

I think there are some good ideas. Games that need some of those skills, rather than artificially wedged in are better. I would encourage the scouts have time to both practice those skills and working with younger scouts to ensure they know the skills. You might call it teaching the skills but they'll call it a competitive advantage. Finally, please call the youth "scouts" and not kids. I don't know of any 15 to 17 year old scouts that will take kindly to being called a kid.

Sounds the same as our situation. We asked for the ein number and was told we can't use it because we're not part of the church. We were always told that we were lucky because we are the first outside group to get the service we have. I want to push for them to use the facility use charter. My guess is the committee will squash that idea.

Or, it looks like buying a car. Maybe they're just haggling over a price. It looks to me both sides have threatened to walk away, and everyone knows that's bad for their side.

Okay everyone, I asked nicely before. If this thread continues to be bankruptcy part 5b - the OA, then maybe it's time to lock it as it's nothing that hasn't been hashed out elsewhere. If you want to talk about CSA in the OA, then go ahead. If it's not specific to the OA and why you won't participate in the OA, then please take the conversation to one of the hundreds of pages that have already covered it.

Getting back to the OP, my experience with the OA has been fairly neutral. It has helped a few scouts but most don't get much out of it. Unfortunately, it has become nothing but cheap labor for the camps and AOL ceremonies. That said, I like the idea of a place for scouts to up their game and, more importantly, bring that back to their troops. Done right that might really help smaller units and complement nylt.

Like eradicating smallpox? @RichardB, I appreciate that you're asking. Unfortunately, this topic has been politicized and is pretty much toxic. I like the "encourage you to talk to your physician" approach. I'd also explicitly add that units can set their own standards. As much as people are afraid of losing membership over such a mandate, my council is losing quite a bit of membership due to the virus. My district has lost at least half of its packs since covid hit. People are limiting their contact with groups and scouts isn't that high a priority. Until this virus is under control

Putting on my moderator hat here. Those using scatological terms to describe plans need to stop. The lawyers are doing there job.

I appreciate your putting in all the details, but there's no mention of YP or any other non monetary changes. So why not just get everyone in a room, hammer it all out, and put up a plan that has a chance of being accepted? I appreciate that it's iterative but why not work multiple sections at the same time? This whole process has been piecemeal with lots of gnashing of teeth in between. Step 1 was just national. Teeth gnashing was TCC saying no way, councils are not independent. Step 2 was national & councils. Gnashing was throwing insurance companies and COs under the bus. Ste

@Oldscout448, I'm happy for you. It sounds like you had a great experience in the OA and it must have been a well run lodge. I wish more were run like that and more people would volunteer. That just doesn't seem to be in the cards right now.

@Armymutt, we do something similar to what you want with a few exceptions. We ask that every family does something for our troop. It can be a couple of hours once a year, it can be quarterly or monthly. We make a list and have a sign up night. If we get half the families to actually help out, it's a win. Some (many?) parents are shy because they don't understand what it is they're asked to do. So we try to pair them up with someone that's done it before. I saw another pack that was one of the best run in the district. They did such a great job everyone was afraid to fill their shoes