MattR

Or never let the adult side of things hold a scout back from having fun - with the safety caveat.

We did the Wind River Range in Wyoming. That was where the bugs were but it was stunning. My understanding is that the start of August would be fine there but don't quote me on that. We tried to do a 50 mile loop in about 6 days and we were just beating ourselves up. My GPS said we were doing something like 500' vertical for every mile horizontal. So about a mile vertical every day. We finally decided to cut a corner off of our loop and make it 38 miles or something. The scouts started smiling. Now, this was all because I, the old man in the crowd, pulled a muscle in my knee because I wasn't d

There are a lot of nice backpacking trails in Colorado. So much that I've never been to Philmont. Philmont isn't about beauty, so I understand why scouts would like it. To answer your question, no, I haven't taken scouts to the San Juans. So you can get better specific trail information from others. However, in other HA trips I've taken scouts in Colorado and Wyoming, the things I'd be aware of is that 1) June in the high country is not summer, it's late winter/early spring and I've had 10 foot snow drifts to deal with over July 4th. Given the run off, trails can be very wet and mudd

Well, when salary has to be made every 2 weeks and camp can sit for 9 months, it's easy to see why this happens. I'm sure it's easy to get addicted to donations. From '45 to the late 60's I'm sure they got all they asked for. But that gravy train is long gone. And yet the culture of rewards is still based on donations. In the meantime, there are fewer volunteers with less outdoor knowledge that need more help in order to deliver a better program. That's a lot of change needed. As implied above, the real challenge is getting leadership to see that the leadership isn't working. Who wan

Or call it an official church youth group activity? Leave the uniforms and handbooks at home, have fun, play in the outdoors. If the church is up for accepting the responsibility then it's all good. If not, it's an opportunity to fix something that has been broken for quite some time.

So double dipping was okay! Still, what impressed me the most was a 15 yo, first class scout that was regarded very highly-rated.

I was wondering where this change came from and all I can think of is that people who feel trapped in a corner don't have free will. What looks like grasping at straws may be a response to something else. Maybe, since the vote, a bunch of CO's no longer believe the BSA's promises. Losing a lot of CO's would cause even more problems. The only way to protect the CO's is to cover their portion and the only way to do that is to say all the money we have, or could possibly get, is enough.

Just another note to those that haven't refreshed their browsers, I split off sub thread about council financing so go there if you want to continue it.

National provides something else besides IP, they provide exclusivity. That means no competition for both youth and donors. Anyone can start a franchise if that goes away. Think about @Jameson76's council under that change. Parents do like the idea of scouts but they might go elsewhere if the summer camp is more fun and less classroom. And what might the donors start doing with some competition? I think that might cause more fear to CE's. When push comes to shove, CE's probably need donors more than camps.

Done.

I moved a bunch of posts about council finances and possible organization to a new thread: The name might change but this link should work. My apologies if you were confused by this but this sub thread really has little to do with the court case..

The same was said when Ma Bell was broken up,

Exactly. The MB counselors that require certification are usually much more fun.

I agree. We had a botanist in our troop that made nature MB fun for everyone. He'd get everyone looking at flowers, counting stamens and pistils and then classifying plants based on that. We were all blown away. While I really appreciate nature, I also appreciate my limits of knowledge. MB classes get boring when the counselor uses the pamphlet to learn the material.

So why was 66% ever mentioned if it's really something greater than 75%? Just curious as to where the 66 number came from. Again, I'm not blaming anyone as I certainly wouldn't have known

I don't know, I've never seen a wheel fall off a newer car or an engine fire from a fuel line not properly reinstalled. Older cars need more maintenance, maintenance costs money, people think "how hard could it be?", accidents happen. Is that causal?

That's a great project! I had to go to YouTube to watch the video.

How to deal with it may just involve reviewing the scout oath and law. I once had some scouts telling jokes that others found really offensive. I didn't think the jokes were that bad but, and this is what I told the tellers of the joke, that comedy has a very fine line between funny and pain. The hard part about humor is guessing how people will hear your jokes. You never know. The right thing to do when someone says your joke went too far is to be courteous, apologize and move on. As you said, many here have their own traumas to deal with and don't want to share the details. And that's o

But most COs don't have the desire, energy or whatever to be responsible so the simplest response is not to charter units. I don't see any councils that have those resources either. So where does that leave us? It could just be much smaller and better than before, fewer COs/units of higher quality. It would be nice if National had some way to develop that but let's be real, who is going to say fewer, better units is the better approach? Hence, that's why I think the facility use agreement is a bandaid. BSA is focused on the short-term of just getting through the bankruptcy and I understan

I believe that's a close description of trauma - one can't forget. So, I don't think it's just you.

I completely agree with this. However, there does need to be a discussion of what that practically entails. What's the true cost of chartering a troop or pack and if there's only a facility use agreement then who is going to cover those costs? Someone needs to be responsible, at the unit level, to make sure the rules are followed and the scouters are of good character. I assume that's the major cause of failure. Our CO insists on a COR that they trust go to the majority of events as they want to see the adults and scouts in action that they signed up to watch over. Who at the council will

So this is all your fault?

One thing that you didn't describe in your description of how your troop operates is how the plc evaluates how much fun the scouts really had. Something I've noticed in my troop is that the plc gets so focused on organizing an event that their definition of success is just having an event run. Whether half the scouts were bored to tears is not noticed. Getting an honest opinion from the scouts isn't as easy as one might hope. One patrol or two, you need honest feedback. Boring meetings or campouts usually stem from scouts passively sitting around during the event. Lecturing to teach skil

I assume they have as much access to that information as we do. So, they're likely scrambling about figuring out how to deal with losses from covid. I do know that my council has lost staff. Whether they were laid off or found better jobs, I don't know.

@IrrationalGoat welcome to the forum. And thank you so much for writing. You're enthusiastic and are taking ownership. Honestly, your post is one of the best things I've seen lately. I'd certainly like to help out at your troop. But, to try and answer your questions. First of all, the patrol method is to help you delegate work so you don't burn out, which sounds like an issue. Adults like single patrols because it makes it easier for them. The problem, as you're finding, is that the scouts are getting bored. You're not bored at all, you're getting run ragged. That's because you're owning