MattR

That's great. That should help a bunch of troops. Most of my scouts found HA trips the highlight of scouts and the more the variety the better.

It seems like the only lesson to the scout is just tell you what you want to hear.

I never said no but there was pressure to say no when our troop got too big.

@Eagledad, I can't doubt your views, they're what you've seen. What I've seen are plenty of friends that would have thrived with their kids in scouts, that were great about letting and encouraging their kids to try and fail, but had no interest in having their kids in scouts. It's true that the BSA's advertising shows a lot of outdoors but I've never seen those ads in other than links in email I'm sent. Instead, try Google boy scouts and look at the images tab. It's almost entirely scouts in uniform saluting the flag. While I have no problem with scouts saluting the flag, it doesn't conjure fun in the outdoors, or playing. Maybe the BSA is trying to change that perception but they've been failing at that for a long time. I agree that the BSA's program, when done right is a balance between fun and purpose, but the people it attracts and the methods it talks about don't really mention fun. Honestly, why isn't fun a method? If I read the list of methods, without any experience of scouts, I wouldn't have put my kids in it. At best it sounds like a classroom for outdoor skills. Go to the BSA's website where they describe the methods. Search for "fun" and all you'll find is "fund raisers." Maybe we struggle with so many new parents because they actually read the manual.

I'm going to push back on this a bit. I've met plenty of parents and kids that would have really enjoyed the free range part of scouts and yet had no desire to join. It seems to me the perception of scouts is more organized activity than make up your own fun. Advancement can easily be seen as everyone fulfilling nearly identical rrequirements. An expensive uniform that is used for meetings and travel is, well, uniform. The idea that scouts can choose their own activities is buried way down in what anyone sees from the outside. If that's the perception then is there any wonder why we struggle with parents that want highly structured activities? Maybe scouts is attracting the wrong kids and parents.

From my experience, nobody has.

I think 2. Is supposed to be Zero Hunger. Follow the links and 1 and 2 go to the same page.

Why? Here's my guess. No training, other than YP, is required to take scouts camping. Even if, say, IOLS were required, it's close to worthless. I say that because I taught some sections once and after having just 20 minutes to teach how to safely use and sharpen an axe I decided I didn't want anything more to do with it. Of course, I was also the district camping chair who organized the camporees and there is no training required for that as well (or at least I never took any). Anyway, my guess is the BSA is worried about clueless leaders creating dangerous activities. Am I close? I understand, but at the same time I don't see how a district event is any safer. The district people have the same training as the unit people.

All scouters or just a few? That and "hostile" could be a big red flag or it could be really poor communication. Complaints in the same troop? Or just in general? If it's from the same people that sound hostile then my suggestion is find the right people to talk to. There's a big communication problem. If it's in general and this someone in this troop said they don't want your help then I agree with the suggestion of talking to the committee chair or SM.

I can't think of anything better than the tool man thing that @Eagledad suggested. Other than that, hype the fun things. Talk about the campfire. Roasting sugar, skits, the whole thing. While they won't cook their meals they can help decide what they want to eat. Give them 3 options and have them vote. If you're experienced with dutch ovens and are willing to make a cake or brownies, tell them you're going to bring an oven - and the whole cake thing, of course. If they feel good about sleeping and food, that should cover most of their fears.

I think that's how they got home.

I hope the Russians don't see that. They seem to have their own logistics problems.

The child usa report sub topic was split off to Please note that this thread is supposed to be about things directly related to the bankruptcy case, as in whether the judge is aware of it. Thanks for your patience.

Maybe the phrase needed is the CO is legally responsible for the unit. Finances and youth safety being the biggest issues. If something goes wrong, who owns the mess? That's supposed to be the CO. It can't be a volunteer. Given that the CO is responsible, in order for the unit leaders to have any autonomy there needs to be trust between the unit and CO. Primarily, that means the CO needs to trust the unit leaders. That takes time and effort. It's the same thing for when the unit leaders allow the scouts to lead. Without trust the adults won't let go. Again, it takes time and effort to develop trust. Both sides need to actively work on it.

If they can't explain the benefit and you have to ask us, but they will take your money ... sounds like a scam. Might be better to spend that money on a photo album to give your son. He'll one day look at it and remember some good times. That's what yearbooks are for.

Update on the hawk: it tried 3 times to pick off our dog. The dog is a 10 lb fluff ball that we got after my mother in law passed. It will ignore any shouting to come home unless it's wearing a beeper collar. But it's 5 degrees out so I figure it won't go far. He didn't. I got to see the whole thing. That hawk had to pull up every time at the last second. Unlucky for the hawk. Very lucky for the dog. And the dog is usually very timid but this time he wanted to play with the big bird with the big talons. And I'm shouting at the dog while also wanting to watch this fascinating bird hunt.

I'm sorry to hear that. I'm reduced to hiking and biking. Well, and backpacking if I keep it real light. I'm still angry with bear canisters

Well, maybe it's my fault for poking a poorly written post and I apologize for that, but this thread needs to get back to scoutlike. @BobbyRo, if you care to explain both your scouting experience and where or what this confidential change in YP is, the rest of the people here might be able to make sense of some confusing statements. If not, I suggest this thread go back to where it was in 2018. I've hidden posts, including my own, that caused this mess.

@Eagledad, how ideas grow from the bottom up: a simple idea that works is easy to replicate and takes over the market. Say that a council has 5 such packs with waiting lines to get in. That would gain a lot of attention. Certainly there's an assumption that it would be popular enough to create a waiting line but, to be honest, parents are desperate for ways to get their kids away from screens and be more responsible. One of the approaches is as simple as "over the next week do something you've never done before. Then write it up on a piece of paper and bring it in." That is not only really simple but it develops confidence and instant results that parents see. And other kids will learn from it. A kid makes his family breakfast or gets a younger sibling ready for school or just walks to school on their own.

Start from the bottom but make sure the entire program is so simple that you can teach it to someone over a cup of coffee. Simplicity will make it easier to grow, much like scouting when it was new. Make it explicit such that everyone involved knows. Just as importantly, explicitly remove the distractions. There is only one method - scouts learning to play and make their own decisions while abiding by the scout law. Advancement is a distraction if the goal is for scouts to define their fun or challenges. Simplify the uniform to be a tee-shirt and a neckerchief - both of which the scouts design. A good picture is defined as much by what's not there as what is. Make a good picture.

I was thinking about this in the context of, well, this thread - scouts learning to find their own fun - and maybe fixing the cub program might help the scout program. As a den leader I tried to follow the program of activity pins. It was difficult, hard, time consuming and not many cubs from my den moved to a troop. I was burned out, relieved it was over and the only reason I went to a troop was I knew what scouting could be. Contrast that with a program, linked to on page 1, of encouraging kids to learn how to play. The adults don't burn out because they're not trying to entertain kids while going over a bunch of repetitive activity pins. The kids do what they're naturally good at, they play. They make up games. They solve people problems. They look out for younger kids. The adults learn to back off. It also takes fewer adults. Imagine those kids transferring to a troop. They would already have the skills to be in a patrol. Given some options they could pick the skills they wanted to learn. The parents would already understand to let the scouts deal with issues.

Welcome to the forum, @BobbyRo. I hope you realize the thread you responded to is 3 years old. Maybe you can describe the changes coming?

And the irony is this isn't a very elegant way to help But getting back to the OP, @5thGenTexan, I wonder if the approach used in Let Grow might really help a pack. The age range is similar. I think the basic idea is get a bunch of stuff, let them figure out how to play with it and only step in if it really is a safety issue (or maybe an opportunity to talk about the scout law as it pertains to a specific incident). If some scouts want to make skits then that's their program for the meeting while others do something else. I suppose adults could also be there to help with an activity pin, if that's what the scouts want to do. And if they just want to play with wood blocks and crash cars into it, then fine, they're at least not playing video games. One of my goals as SM was to push for a good game at each meeting. A successful meeting was a bunch of sweaty, smiling scouts at the end. It absolutely hurts me to see the troop push off a game because there are more important things to do. For a child, playing is important. The challenge for the adults is understanding how to play. Unfortunately, requirements are the antithesis of play.

I haven't seen the '21 report but our numbers were cut in half in '20. We had about 4000 cubs and scouts in '20. I don't keep in touch with those in the know anymore. Other than we were losing packs before covid, for lack of volunteers, I really don't know more. As @vol_scouter said, it's time for someone younger to take over.

Welcome to the forum, @plumlee