MattR

Sounds good. So you're talking to the SPL and the SPL handles this as he sees fit. The assumption is that the SPL "gets it" "If the SPL needs some guidance." What if he needs more than guidance? What if just flat out doesn't care? If he's the one that started the idea of going to the mall and is adamant about it. Maybe he just wants to push your buttons. Further, the rest of the troop goes along with it just to see what happens. Then will you replace the SPL? (and I assume this is after trying repeatedly to get him understand what's going on.) If you would, and the boy knows it, t

Stosh and Barry, I'm not sure I understand the differences between the two of you on this. Let's say a PL tells everyone at the PLC that he's going to take his patrol on a hike. But he gets lazy, blows it off, and at the last moment scraps the hike and plays video games instead. How would each of you handle this? If the PLC decides that the outdoors is just a bore and they'd rather take the troop to the mall to hang out and check out the girls, even though the 11 year olds aren't interested, how do you handle this? If a boy in a patrol is just not advancing, you talk to the PL

To me, there seems to be a big gap between the BSA's potential and where it is now. Some units are doing great and a lot are blundering along. For those that are doing great they probably sell themselves irrespective of whatever national does. Giving the others what they need would help a lot. Win locally and everyone can ignore what the global wing nuts think or say. I've always thought scouting is this strange mix of things that just works. It's character and adventure and leadership and fun. And it's not just sports or STEM or band. It's well rounded where a lot of other things are foc

What you're trying to do is the right thing. A lot of the training assumes you already have a boy led/patrol method troop. But it's a lot harder to transform a troop. A couple of years ago the light bulb went off with me and it's been a very slow trial and error approach for me. It would be really nice if national put together info on how to do this. Some lessons I've learned: Get the best scouts as patrol leaders. Too often it's, nah, I don't want to do it, it's your turn. We have a nomination process, like OA, to even be eligible to be PL. Also, one ASPL is more than enough. More tha

Big. Huge. Red. Flags. But at the same time I'd like to buy you a beer because you obviously care about the boys. Some questions I'd ask first are what do the families think of this? A problem that needs solving? They don't care? They like the CC and husband? Next, other than the boys, what's keeping you there? Where do you meet? What is it about this CO that you like? If the CO doesn't matter and the boys are all that matter, and everyone agrees with this then here is one option, I'm sure there are more. Find someone that would be a new CC. Between the two of you, find a new CO. Create a

Maybe we should just change Reverent to Humble. Here's a nice quote I like: Humility -- true humility -- is one of the most expansive and life-enhancing of all virtues. It does not mean undervaluing yourself. It means valuing other people. It signals a certain openness to life's grandeur and the willingness to be surprised, uplifted, by goodness wherever one finds it.... Humility, then, is more than just a virtue: it is a form of perception, a language in which the "I" is silent so that I can hear the "Thou", the unspoken call beneath human speech, the Divine whisper within all that moves, the

Maybe the first talk should be with your son. If your son had fun staying up until 3 or 4am then maybe a discussion about consequences is appropriate. If he couldn't get to sleep because of a couple of self centered scouts, then that's a different thing. It could be time to coach him on some options. Is there anyone he could talk to about asking the scouts to keep quiet? Is there an option for him to sleep outside in a tent? Maybe with you? At least until he gets bigger or finds another buddy to share a tent with? My guess is the SM understands that the average 11 year old can't deal with 3am

Punishment or consequence are tools, and like any tool can be abused. If they're used with the intent that it helps a scout mature, it's tough love and can be useful. If they're used to get rid of a problem then it's wrong. Since JoeBob was with the PLC when they came up with their plan I'm sure it wasn't Lord of the Flies. There's something else going on here. Boys don't much think about what is right so much as they recognize what works. If the scouts don't stand up to misbehavior and only the SM will do anything about it then the rules are simple - be "good" when the SM is around and h

Change of heart? How about oak? There are several actors here. There's you, Bad Eagle, Tenderfoot, and the Troop. The troop can be broken into those that see Bad Eagle's behavior as a problem and those that don't care. Bad Eagle has no incentive to change. He's worked the system. Tenderfoot has the most incentive to change after being embarrassed by Bad Eagle. A little effort from an adult, or especially some scouts, would turn his scouting career around. The scouts that see Bad Eagle's behavior for what it is probably want something to change, they just aren't sure what. They listen to

I don't know much about this boy or the rest of his troop. It may be that the boys have a clique and he's not in it, or it might be that this boy is just shy or that he's difficult when adults aren't around, or, who knows. I currently have a scout that is 13, Star, went to jambo, goes to multiple places to get merit badges, goes on every campout he can, is very enthusiastic, always says hi to me, and still, is not in OA. When I asked some scouts why, they rolled their eyes and explained that this boy is a very different kid when the adults aren't around. I don't think he's a bad kid, he just d

JoeBob, you reminded me of something else. Namely, get someone else to swing the 2x4, preferably the PLC. I'm guessing that having your peers tell you to straighten up is a much stronger message than having an adult tell you.

I think you're getting to the heart of motivation. He won't change until he wants to change. And he won't want to change until he sees that he's made a mistake and that someone would like to help him. Just guessing but he's 14 and Eagle so either mom and dad are doing all the work or he's a very bright but self centered kid. Anyway, I'd start with a SMC. Ask him what an Eagle scout is and does. Write it down. Ask for details. He may need some coaching to get it out but write down his words. Next, review the incident. Ask for details. Compare what he said in general to what he did in this speci

That's not allowed either. Kids might get rope burns.

Barry, I agree with most of what you're saying. Mainly that a lot of adults don't get it. But one thing that hasn't changed is the desire of parents to raise sons that are responsible, resourceful, adventurous, and yes, even selfless. I think the challenge for scouts is training the adult leaders. Compare scouts to high school football. The training for a good coach is similar to a good SM, it takes a lot of time and passion. But the football coach has professional football to help sell his program, is paid, has equipment and gear, trainers and assistants, every game is described in the

Eagledad, don't give up. I just had a fantastic campout with my troop. The SPL showed true leadership and he didn't even know it. He started a snowball fight with some older scouts, which eventually brought in the rest of the troop, followed by the adults. After an hour we were exhausted and soaking wet, so we called a truce. I told the SPL that what he did was a perfect example of leadership and to keep doing it. So on Saturday night he organized a game and all I could think was nobody would join him, but most did. I finally think my troop is moving in the right direction. It still works, eve

Geez JoeBob, maybe I should get a white cowboy hat and sunglasses as we must be related. I think there are a couple of things going on. One is that the boys know crap when they see it and the minimum requirements for getting Eagle, at least the way most troops operate, is mostly crap. A few years ago I asked some older scouts that didn't really do much for the troop, but would bust their butts on summer camp staff what the deal was and they told me they knew they were critical for the success of the camp but the troop didn't need their help. They were right. Next, boys are afraid to

Nope, they go to bed when they're tired, and after the first night that's usually before any official light's out or the adults. The younger kids tend to go to sleep earlier. By 10 the SPL and PLs go around and check that everyone is in their tents. So I guess it's not a lights out rule so much as a be in your tent rule so we know there aren't any lost scouts.

They can stay up all night as far as I'm concerned. They are expected to be at flags, participate in the program, and be packed up, ready to go on Sunday at a predetermined time. They are expected to live the Scout Oath and Law. Every meal they choose to eat requires protein. Other than that, it's up to the PL. So, if they can't wake up in time Saturday morning then, gee, no time for breakfast because they need to be at flags. That happens once and then they realize they need to get up, which means they need to go to sleep, .... I'm no longer responsible for nagging kids and they can figure it

I have a hunch that this problem is The one problem that the BSA should solve to make everything better; help struggling packs thrive. That would solve the Cub Scout membership problem and would in turn solve the Boy Scout membership problem. My hat is off to those that are doing super human service to these units. It's been my experience that roughly 25% of any non-profit organization will volunteer and help out. So either you're unlucky in the parents you have or just maybe they don't see the it the way you do. You see how a pack should run but they don't. What if you found a pack that

Stosh, often I wonder if working with 11 year olds might be easier when it comes to leadership. Sure, you have to ask lots of questions but they aren't afraid to try. 16 and 17 year olds are willing to try and push themselves, as do 11 year olds, but there's a gap between 13 to 15 where being cool and not rocking the boat is more important than challenging yourself. Right now I have few 16-17 year old scouts and am struggling with this.

I was thinking of that game as well. That game caught me hook line and sinker. I was upset with it and refused to be a part of it. As usual, my guess is someone took a good idea and abused it. In this case they kept up the charade for a few days rather than, say, an hour. Which is probably too long for scouts.

ScouterCA, I agree, it's a cluster fart in a mummy bag. And your son has tried. He tried talking to the adults (who apparently are all missing out on what scouting is about). He talked to the boy and that failed. He found another troop that really likes him. At the same time, while your son has been driven to tears by this boy, he is "still firmly planted in this troop." Why? This might be a good place to start a discussion with your son. Obviously there's something he likes about his first troop. And more obviously there's a bully in it that's ruining it for him and probably others as well. H

One thing that caught my eye is that this other boy is polite around adults and a bully around the boys. So, who's solving the problems in this troop? Not the boys. I'm guessing that a lot of boys in this troop are seeing this and none of them are standing up for what's right. That's where the silver lining to this problem lies. Whether or not you can do anything to change this, I don't know. But it's something to look for in another troop. I've been working with the boys in my troop to take ownership of these types of problems and they need constant encouragement. This is not easy for them.

Eagle is an attitude. How hard will someone push themselves to do the right thing. Whether service to help an elderly couple shovel their sidewalk or hiking out of the Grand Canyon, it still requires going above and beyond. Some that do the requirements have the attitude. Many don't. A few have the attitude but don't do the requirements. What this has to do with parents or scoutmasters is more related to chance. Some of this attitude is trainable and I suppose the more a scout sees it the more he's likely to absorb it -- so plus one for the active parents. At the same time there's also a genet

Scout toss: get all of your patrol and all it's stuff over an orange mesh fence without touching the fence. usually this involves tossing the smaller scouts over. Assuming there's plenty of snow to land in, it's a lot of fun.