Lisabob

Ah, ok, so there are some other issues in this pack then. One of the quickest ways to get some distance from these boys without leaving the pack would be to help recruit enough boys to actually have dens. How many current Tigers are there in the pack? Do you have enough to start a Wolf den, separately from the rest? If so, go to the committee and suggest it. Explain how packs should function (separate dens, because boys of different ages have separate interests and needs!) and that you'd like to help by getting a wolf den going. Were you aware that boys can join cub scouts right now, and attend day camp (or resident camp, if they're not new Tigers) with the pack this summer? That means, boys finishing kindergarten can become cub scouts on June 1/whenever your school year ends (most councils use June 1). So this is a great time for your son to encourage his best buddies to join the pack too. If you can start up a wolf den, (or even a wolf/bear den) and if the pack can recruit some new Tigers (as few as 3!) to form your next Tiger den, you're more than half-way there. The boys you have trouble with can be in a Webelos den starting next year if they're bears now. Just be sure to stress that dens should NOT all be meeting in the same time/same place. That way the boys get more individual attention and age-appropriate activities, AND you'll have more distance from these obnoxious older boys. By the way - the behavior you describe, while obviously not desirable, would not rise to the level of "kick them out" in my book. It might, though, rise to the level of "Johnny you need to sit out the next activity" or perhaps "Johnny I am sorry but you will need to call your mother to pick you up now." And if the mom thinks YOU are picking on her kids, then have another adult (CM, CC, or Den Leader if possible) be the one to do this.

I'm not saying it isn't appropriate for them to authorize this coin, fgoodwin. And I'm also not saying you shouldn't have posted this here, being a scouting website and all. My points would be more along the lines of: a) it isn't something to get too worked up about, politically speaking, when there are much bigger issues on the table, and b) it doesn't appear that the approval for this coin was ever in any doubt. If it were a razor thin margin, and a highly salient issue, then *maybe* I could see getting fired up about those who voted against it. But as it stands, 8 out of the 435 members of the House voted "no" on an issue that is symbolic and was guaranteed to pass anyway, and c) supposing that the coin had been denied (clearly not likely, but suppose...), would that have truly detracted from the ability of the BSA and its members to celebrate our 100th anniversary? I don't believe it would. So sure, if a person lives in the district of one of these 8 members, and if this particular issue is the deal breaker for someone who otherwise would have supported these members, hey, voice your opinion! Start a movement! Vote for the other guy! But for the rest of us? There have to be bigger issues.

Chin up there, basement dweller! Please don't let your original focus be overwhelmed, the fun is still there for you and your son. But for now, please know that lots of us have "been there" too and will commiserate with you as needed. One of the things I learned in working with cub scouts is that there are a lot of people out there who don't seem to know how to interact with others. For many parents of cub-aged children, the BSA is the first and maybe only volunteer organization they become involved with as adults. Some of them apparently do not know how to be a good member of a volunteer organization because they've had no training or modeling of such behavior in their lives. And then too, there may be family or personal issues, and/or just downright weak parenting skills. So you get some strange behaviors sometimes. It doesn't make it right but it might help a little to put things in perspective. Let me recommend that you don't necessarily need to go as far as removing the boys from your pack. You could simply request that they be placed in another den than your son - with a Den Leader who is willing to take them. And/or that their parents be required to attend all outings with them, and that the CM and CC have a real sit down with the parents to explain expectations. 99% of the time, that puts a stop to things because either the parent "sees the light" or the parent can't/won't spend the time with their own kid and so the family simply doesn't participate. If the parent is in the "sees the light" camp (doesn't sound like it in this case though) then there's a real opportunity for subtle support/building of this person's parenting skills! I've seen many parents grow as a result of becoming involved in a community network like cub scouting. I think that removing them from your pack is a fairly extreme, last-resort step. It is one I'd personally consider when we are talking about physical violence, but probably would not consider just in the case of an annoying child. But, you do have the option of finding another pack as well. If you go that route, I've noticed that packs chartered by church groups, private schools, and other semi-closed organizations tend to have a more common set of expectations about behavior, even if their members come from a broader community background. On the other hand, packs that draw primarily from the local public elementary school tend to have a broader range of kids/families/behaviors to cope with. That's not necessarily a bad thing - especially if that's where all of your son's friends are - but it may be something to consider if you do go looking for a new pack.

Don't "misunderestimate" me or anything but, c'mon, is this really a salient issue upon which to make one's voting choice? Or to encourage others to change their elected representatives? It's a COIN for goodness sake! Let's look, instead, at how they voted on health care, taxes, Iraq, something - anything - of some real substance. And then, let's each focus on our own districts, hmm? Someone showing up from who-knows-where in my district trying to tell me how to vote based on THEIR special interests (which might, or might not, match my own) is going to get a mighty cold reception.

I admit having a smile or two when I see a cub with arrow points all the way down his shirt, especially when he tucks it in... It makes me think, "oh there's an eager young fellow whose family supports his active involvement in scouting." And any conversation that starts with "I see you have some arrow points, how did you earn those?" pretty much always ends with a boy beaming with pride at his accomplishments. Not to say that the arrow points are necessary for a boy to have a good scouting experience, but I agree with Eamonn. Let these little guys enjoy the recognition, however many arrows they earn!

Are they any better behaved when their "responsible adult" is with them? I have seen cases where having the parent there actually made things worse because either a) the kid had mom's and dad's number and knew it, or b) the apple didn't fall far from the tree and so Scouters ended up babysitting the parent too. If having the parent present helps then I would require that as a condition of participation, along with a very clear discussion with parents about what the expectations of them will be. (I am assuming either that you are the Cub Master or the Den Leader - if you're neither, you need to be sure they're aware of the situation and hopefully in agreement) If parents are as bad as or worse than the kids, and nothing else works either, then perhaps I'd just refuse to lead a group that they were part of. You have to know your own limits.

If your group of eager 13-15 year old scouts had a choice between doing a high adventure trek at one of the National HA bases and going to jambo in 2010, which would you recommend to them and why? We have just such a group, newly formed. They want to do EVERYTHING. I'm excited that they're excited but money is a little tight and parents are beginning to have sticker shock. Nobody in our troop has done any of these sorts of activities in a long time so there's no internal institutional memory to guide them.

There is one troop I know of with more adults registered than youth. That, to me, is too much. There are times in my son's troop where there are nearly as many adults as youth on a camp out. That, to me, is too much. BSA is not a camping club for adults. And while I personally do see an important role for "adult association" as a method of scouting, when there are so many adults ever-present (even well meaning ones), it makes it very difficult for the boys to own their own program. (On the other hand - we read so often here about troops that are struggling to get a second adult to attend camp outs so they'll have 2 deep leadership. So I guess it is better in some ways to have an embarrassment of riches. At least it means camp outs are seldom canceled.)

We're planning to set up a table at the local conservation club at their "family fun day." They have a fishing derby, archery, bb guns, do demos of black powder and other "cool" shooting activities, etc. It is generally well attended by exactly our target audience - elementary school boys and their dads. It also happens to be the location for our district day camp a few weeks later. I'm really hoping it will be a successful recruiting venue.

I think that there may be times when the "double dipping" rule makes some sense, but the problem with any general rule is that there are also times it does not make sense. One example of where I think it makes sense: there are a number of merit badges that require a certain number of service hours. We have a couple of scouts in our troop right now working on the reading MB (4 hours of service), citizen/community (8 hours of service) and Star or Life rank (6 hours of service). We have told these boys that they can't use the same 4-6-8 hours of service to fulfill all three requirements. One of the boys found a nonprofit group where he would spend 4 hours a month for a minimum of 3 months helping with a reading program. He decided, with approval from his 2 MB counselors, to use the first month (4 hours) toward his reading badge, and the second and third months (8 hours) toward his citizen/community badge.

Well as I said I don't think it is anything like perfect but my teenage son is already asking when he can get it. So I guess if Eamonn's test is the one that matters and if my son is any indication then it should go over rather well. As for me I have been waiting to pick up a new uniform for some time. I want to wait and see the shirt for real (I agree with gwd about the look of the bellows pockets - not exactly ideal for women! But maybe?? we'll get really lucky and the women's version will be somewhat different in that regard) but I'll probably get one if it isn't too awful. (If it is then I may just get one of the newer "activity" shirts instead and let people deal with it if they want to complain) I will almost certainly pick up a pair of the new switchbacks. I like the unhemmed plan - it isn't hard to hem pants and the current olive switchbacks don't fit me or my son right in terms of waist/length no matter what size I pick. By the way our scout shop just announced an extension of the 2 for 1 olive switchbacks through June 20 - still no official mention of or willingness to confirm the new uniform roll out though. Frankly I think that's duplicitous or worse. I know for a fact that the scout shop staff in my council knows what's coming down the line.

Buttons dorky? That's a new one by me. Yeah well GW, he's 13. There's no telling what will offend his sensibilities at any given time. He likes the velcro though and come to think of it, most of his cargo-type pants (non scout) do have a lot of velcro pockets on them so I suppose that is a more current style. As for me, I agree the pockets don't look very functional and we'd be better off without them. But imagine the horrified yells from those who like to dangle things off the pockets.

I showed my son the pamphlet. His first comment was that the shirt doesn't look much different, not much of an improvement there in terms of style. But, he does think the new material will be an improvement, he likes the more muted colors for the patches, and he's glad the "dorky" pocket buttons are gone. Then he asked whether he'd be able to get one in time for summer camp. He had more positive comments about the new socks, which have lost the red stripe across the top.

I couldn't decide what my ONE thing would be! I should have fudged it when I set up this thread and said "the couple of things" I want a new DE to know. So I've settled on this: yes, know your volunteers are out there and will do things if asked - but know how to ask, and then LET THEM DO IT! I recently had a conversation with a fellow who isn't my DE but was filling in, and what I expected to be a 2-way conversation consisted of him trying to shove a whole bunch of stuff down my throat - stuff I had no authority to agree to in the first place (other people's budget lines) and some I wouldn't approve if I did. He couldn't seem to understand why I dug in my heels and then he attempted to "manage" me. Not well either. Since then I don't know what the heck he has done but it isn't what we agreed to do, I know that. Making what I agreed to do, that much more difficult or even redundant. Man that gets me irritated (can you tell?). So yeah, you want me to do something, you want my input, ask me and I'll be there - but don't bother to ask if what you're really doing is dictating. Learn the difference. And once a plan is agreed upon, give me room to do my part of it without micromanaging and duplicating efforts and wasting my time. By the way I asked my FD about what sort of training our new DE will get and he told me it is mostly on the job. I kind of feel badly for her; much as I am trying to see it otherwise, I think she's being set up.

Here's what our troop has done. We have a medical officer. That med officer is responsible for maintaining health forms for the troop. We require parents to sign in any meds that their scout needs to have on a camp out, with the medical officer. This can be prescription or otherwise. Meds must be in original bottles with original labels and will not be dispensed in ways that contradict instructions on the label. The medical officer holds onto these medications, with exceptions of inhalers and epis (parents must explicitly sign off on allowing their scout to keep these with him). For OTC meds like pepto, calamine, aspirin, on the bottom of each activity permission slip is a check-off for parents. If parents check those OTC meds, then the medical officer will dispense them to the scout if needed. If the parent doesn't check those OTC meds, the medical officer will not dispense them. I don't know what else, beyond the above, is in the med officer's 1st aid kit for the troop. A good question, and one I'll have to ask. We are lucky enough to have a couple of people who are professionals in medical fields in the troop so I hope they'd be able to offer advice.

We have a new DE, a very young person for whom this is their first job post-college. Our new DE has no prior experience with scouting of any sort. Needless to say the learning curve is steep! I feel a bit badly for this person, as they are following someone who was well-regarded and well-versed from all angles of the program. These are tough shoes to fill. So there's an opportunity here. (Yes I am trying to see it as that) And I'm curious. If you could spend 15 minutes with a brand new DE and know that just ONE thing you told or showed them would "stick" for the remainder of their BSA professional career, what would that one thing be, and why? Ground rules: One thing only! It can be related to a specific BSA program or to the relationship between pros and volunteers, or whatever else it is you think you would want to share with a brand new DE as long as it is relevant to scouting. Let's think "blue sky" here, assuming that this DE really does want to learn from the volunteers.

GW I won't go beyond this because it really is a tangent but most universities DO consider this plagiarism. Most go beyond the basic definition you provided to include a variety of other academically dishonest practices. I've sat on committees where students were punished for exactly this sort of thing at more than one school. It might not have been the case at your school, but it is in most places. You are expected to do original work for each course (unless you have permission to the contrary). Otherwise you aren't learning anything new, and you are passing off something written for another purpose, as meeting the expectations of the present class. It probably happens often and in larger schools it is probably unlikely that a student wold be caught, but again, I've never been at any college/university, nor do I know anybody who has ever taught at any college/university (and that's what I do for a living so this is a fairly big list of people), where this practice is considered acceptable.

Sctdad, are you talking about a cub scout group maybe? In that case I would recommend that you talk with your den leaders and assign each den a specific task. Make sure everyone knows ahead of time what that task is, and how to perform it.

GW I am not saying that this doesn't happen but just FYI, this is considered plagiarism by pretty much any university/college, unless you specifically sought and received the approval of your instructor to do so in advance. So I'd hate to see this be the standard for Eagle, or any other BSA rank.

Thanks for the info on the okpik program, but as Ely MN is about a 900 mile drive from "home" for us, I think we'll stick to summertime trips to the area! That's one heck of a weekend camping trip otherwise... At any rate our new venture patrol leader floated the idea of going to NT next summer and the boys all thought that was very cool. But they also want to learn scuba and they thought Sea Base was cool too. So we'll see what they end up deciding. Thanks again to everyone for input.

Yes and a little bit (though page tears are more likely it seems). Just FYI in my neck of the woods you can buy a glue-bound copy, take it to the local Staples or Office Max, get it spiral bound and covers laminated, for less than it costs to buy the spiral bound version off the shelf at the scout shop.

Have you contacted the company? They will repair the zippers for a reasonable fee.

At this time of year school libraries are often doing inventory and trying to figure out what they need to request to purchase next year. Your son might see if his librarian needs any assistance. Memorial day and Flag day are approaching and veterans groups often welcome scouts' assistance at ceremonies. It is a busy season for animal shelters and rescue groups. The post office is doing a national food drive on May 10th. Any community organization - food banks, churches, public libraries, friends of the parks, PTOs, Lions, Elks, Kiwanis, VFW, etc., are good groups to approach. The opportunities are only as limited as your scout's imagination and his SM's willingness to approve. (Congrats again to your son!)

Unfortunately I don't know the answer to your question. But, does your campus have a health center? If so, can you and the leader of your club make an appointment to meet with someone on staff there to discuss this? If you don't have a health center (which most campuses do these days), you might also consider setting up an appointment with the prof who is instructing your WFA class. They may or may not be in a position to give you a definitive answer, but I bet dollars to donuts they can help point you to good local resources to help you figure this out. One thing that comes to mind is that state laws probably differ from one state to another, and so it would be a good idea to have this conversation with someone who is conversant both with the medical issues and with the local legal issues.

That's too bad that you got a sort of brush off. Keep in mind though, that the DE probably has a lengthy list of fires to tend (or put out!) at any given time, and finding a spot for you might not be the very first thing on his or her list. Most districts have a monthly district committee meeting, as well as a monthly Round Table meeting. These are two likely places where the DE will be in attendance and will hopefully remember to pass your name along to other district volunteers. It might not be a bad idea to go (at least to RT), ask who the district chair is, and introduce yourself. If the district chair isn't in attendance, talk to one of the following folks: district training chair, district commissioner (oversees unit commissioners, and I've never once met one who didn't need more UCs), or district roundtable commissioner (should be running RT). These people ALWAYS need help.