Laurie

The pack I serve has 46 years in tenure, but the oldest streamers are dated 1983. In trying to pull unit history together, can you tell me if there was a particular time that units began to receive the streamers? I'm curious as to whether we just have some missing, have years where they weren't earned, or whether they just weren't issued/awarded. Thanks!

VentureScoutNY: I was just thinking the same as you... Eamonn posts the question-"How can we make Scouting more attractive?" lets try to tackle this one... Maybe it's time we can each ask the units we serve what appeals to them in Scouts? And what do they think would appeal to the boys they have not yet invited. What is it that we can help them with in this respect? To do this, we must first understand what Scouting looks like to the youth it serves. We must also find out what it looks like to their friends that they hide their uniforms from. I'm going to do a poll like Acco's and also using these questions with the troop next week (they camp this weekend). Who's game to ask around to see what the perception is and how we can help promote the positives and/or help the youth we serve to get out the message that these appealing things ARE taking place already? We may have varied responses, but still, it may just help us to help retain, recruit, and to help our youth recruit more too. p.s. I know there are studies done, and I have several of them here, so this is certainly not in place of the BSA studies, which are well done and helpful. Instead, we share a concern right now, and maybe we can ask our youth to help us to help them in this respect.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Monthly themes can be a real asset to planning a pack meeting. That is when I see it come together. We only recently began using them, but in reality, I was the only one truly sold on them. When two DLs took training recently, they came back excited them because however the instructor pitched themes, it clicked with them. The draw back to program helps is that there is far too much planned for each meeting, but that's ok; just choose what is needed for den and pack meetings. Add too if you like. This is an idea book. The pros are that the den crafts or projects or field trips or whatever else they are working on all have a common theme when the pack meeting comes around. Add a themed song, themed skits, themed decorations, and a great deal of the meeting is already done because of what took place in the dens. It also eliminates a lot of work. Less time is spent trying to find ideas that are age-appropriate as well as meeting advancements/achievements. We are planning the coming year in about a month or two, and the program help themes will guide all planning we do, including the budget. It allows us to project what we will be doing in a more accurate way than ever before. Hope this helps Have fun! p.s. One more thing: we are very flexible. For instance, my hope was to use the Fiesta theme for our Blue and Gold this past February. That just didn't work for us and we found that a Native American theme was doable and great fun. We had just gone to Powwow, and we took classes that pretty much planned it out for us--all we needed to do was adjust it to our own pack. This month, we are not using the planned theme. We have done, in dens and as a pack, several things related to geology, volcanos, and the like. Therefore, we are having our own version of Cub Rock for May, even having changed the words to the Flintstone theme to create a song titled "Cubs Rock". Skits are related, and I am giving out awards by "panning for them" using my kids' sand strainer and a big dish with water and gravel. The DLs like it, it fits what they are doing, and therefore all the pieces are just coming together with the greatest of ease.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Ed, I realize my post may sound argumentative; that was not my intent at all though. My son was terrified of the water. This is where peer pressure becomes a good thing, and in Scouting, being able to handle one's self in the water is very important. Therefore, the boys all came out for swim night. The leaders are outstanding in this particular area; 3 are lifeguards, and all can swim. When the leaders began to ham it up, then some games in the more shallow water were underway, there was too much going on for any one boy to be singled out. Therefore, keeping all safety practices in place, the leaders were able to work with the boys who were scared and/or who couldn't swim. By leaders, I include the PL here too (we only have one PL). Bit by bit, more of the boys joined in. This may have been the most productive troop night ever. The majority of the boys--5 of 6 boys who bridged last year--could not swim and were considered non-swimmers at the last summer camp. Of that number, at least 4 can now swim well enough to pass the test. The fear and the ability were dealt with. But like I said, this might not always work--it did this time though.

(sorry--deleted message)(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Eamonn, do you have ideas on how the image can be made attractive to those not currently seeing it so? I was invited to take part in a council-wide Cub Scout Focus Group. This is one of the areas we all agreed on: the image is foggy (what are we exactly?) and the purpose is just not clear (why should anyone want to join--what's this all about?). There were some great ideas on turning this perspective around, and a big part of it includes updating and modernizing the recruiting tools. For Cubs, the recruiting fliers all are addressed to the boys rather than to the families. However, we were talking about Cubs being a family program. This was just one item; there were more. Over and over again though, no matter if was a representative unit that is large or small, wealthy or struggling, city or suburbs--the image and purpose are not clear. So, what can we do now? Do we aim for cool? Or do we take what we have and show it fits today's kids and families?

I'm not sure the BSA needs to be cool, but it's a thought-provoking question. It leads to: what do we want to show the youth about the BSA? As for independence. The boy leaning on a Porsche might have a better chance of getting from point A to point B, but how well will he do if he gets lost? The Scout leaning on a Porsche...or an old clunker ... he may have a far more exciting time once on the road with fewer problems because he has learned to grow into independence. But this is just my opinion

FOG, maybe they don't want to take the swim test. BUT, have they been taught what they need to know? Have they been given opportunities to take the test? Have they been been praised for their efforts even when they haven't made it...yet? This hits close to home. Our former non-swimmer son dreaded that test. He said everyone else could swim. Guess what? The troop had a swim night. It turns out most don't know how to swim. So the leaders taught them how, got them started. Now they are passing. That was only this past winter. Obstacles like this can be overcome. This may not always be the case, but I do believe this is one way that adults can help the boys--by providing the opportunity, lessons, and as many tests as needed. It was not easy, but it was doable.

Mike, if you have access to a Cub Scout Leader Handbook or PackMaster, each has a permission slip that you may use.

Bob, I stand corrected. I thought the neckerchief and hat were troop decisions that varied from troop to troop. This troop has a neckerchief designed for it, and it requires the baseball style cap. This is what we were told and have in print in the new family guide. Of course, I did omit that part, but if the troop makes a decision like this, isn't it confusing to the boys when only one or two wear a neckerchief or hat? The thing that bothers me about the sash is that it is only worn during Eagle COHs and Eagle BORs by the Eagle Scout/candidate. I did not say this was wrong, but that it made me sad. The boys work so hard. What about all those other COHs for all the other boys? It would seem to be the time to show off what has been earned, but the boys just don't wear them though they do have them. (This message has been edited by Laurie)

(This was posted the same time as Bob's post and was following fboisseau's post.) That may be true, but the boys I know who like Scouts but not the uniform have said what they don't like. They hate the pants, but interestingly enough, they'll wear any other olive green pant with their uniforms. And yeah, I know, that's not the way the uniform is to be worn, but the color--and therefore the image--is not the problem. The hat--it's just not cool they say, but all these same boys wear baseball caps. The thing they have in common is that most are dark colors with no logo or something subtle. They just plain don't like it. The shirt is ok, but the neckerchief has got to go, they say. So, most don't wear them. They don't like the look or the style of that, preferring the shirt alone to the shirt with a neckerchief. Now, here's the thing: these very same things that the boys don't like aren't worn by the leaders. The leaders were baseball caps, dark usually. The leaders were jeans or khakis. The leaders do not wear a neckerchief or bolo. This is an issue that makes me wonder: is it really the uniform that is the problem, or is the example set? I like the leadership, but I believe an adult example is very powerful and may have influenced the attitude toward uniforms. Oh, and merit badge sashes? Never ever worn except by those working on Eagle, and then only during BOR's and the Eagle COH. I cannot tell you how sad that makes me that they don't want to display these.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Interesting question. There are boys in the troop my son is in that enjoy Scouting, but they just do not like the uniform. They wear it, but not because they are proud of it, rather because they are told to. These are the boys that coming running into a meeting with their shirts in their hands, throwing them on once they arrive, and taking them off as soon as the meeting is over. What I would like to know is this: what would these boys want in a uniform that would make them more inclined to wear it with pride rather than hide it? And I'd add those Bob mentioned. What an interesting poll this could be, taking those proud of the uniform and those wishing to hide it and trying to come up with something workable from that mix!

Ozemu--thanks!

Hops, neat idea for an introduction / "get-to-know-you" type thread. I love taking photos, but I am a simple point-and-shoot just-for-fun amateur photographer. Most of the Cub digital photos I take that have releases signed by parents are on the website that I developed and maintain for the pack I serve. These are fun things for me, nothing fancy or professional, but certainly something I'd help others with if able to. (This message has been edited by Laurie)

ozemu--what great ideas, many of them never heard by me before. Please tell me a little more about this: Video party outdoors We have very large open space outside our meeting place, and we try to stay outdoors as much as possible. What does it take to make something like this work? With our boys, I can see this being a big hit. TIA!

As far as leaders go, it isn't just a religious belief that qualifies one. It is part of a bigger picture. "The applicant must possess the moral, educational, and emotional qualities that the Boy Scouts of America deems necessary to afford positive leadership to youth. The applicant must also be the correct age, and subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle, and abide by the Scout Oath or Promise, and the Scout Law." This is printed on the adult leader application. If the religion were removed, what next? Living by the Scout Law would indicate that one be trustworthy, loyal (do we really believe an adulterer is trustworthy and loyal?)helpful, friendly, courteous, kind(how many times are people right here accused of attacking--which is certainly not helpful, friendly, courteous, or kind?), obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent (what happens with this part of the law when religious belief of some sort is not required?). If the religion were removed from the Scout Law, what happens to the Scout Oath? Not only would "do my duty to God" need to be removed, but following that thought, doing my duty "to obey the Scout Law" would also have to be removed. And this is just the beginning, for all of these principles included in the Scout Oath and Scout Law are interwoven through all of what Scouting is. Though religion is not taught, a form of religious belief is interwoven throughout all of the BSA literature as can be seen in the above paragraphs. I personally don't agree with the idea that adulterers, unkind people, etc. have a place in leadership. I don't see how it fits. I do see that if any one part of the Law or Oath were changed, it would begin to unravel what remains. As for Merlyn, though I do not agree with him, not once have I found him to be unkind or unpleasant here toward me. He answers questions, is thorough, and doesn't push the issue. You know what makes it look that way? All the questions asked of him: what is your motive, why do you come here, and the like. Would I want to see Merlyn as a BSA leader? No, but only because he has made it clear that he not in agreement that religious belief is important. Do I get why he posts here of all places? No, but there are people who are Scouters who are just plain rude that I also wonder at their reason for posting here. As for Cradle of Liberty Council: ANY council can lose its charter if it does not abide by the BSA policies. Cradle of Liberty is following BSA policies as stated by National and has not lost its charter.

Sorry about that! I haven't a clue how that happened.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Wishing you a safe and enjoyable trip!

Wishing you a safe and enjoyable trip!

What an incredible man! I just read his story, and I am both saddened and awed by it. Thank you for sharing this link. I am particularly touched by the following quotes, and I am not sure that I ever have made a decision so selfless as he did. His coach at the Cardinals, Dave McGinnis, told Sports Illustrated at the time that "this is very serious with Pat. It's very personal, and I honor that. I honor the integrity of that. It was not a snap decision he woke up and made yesterday. This has been an ongoing process, and he feels very strongly about it." "Pat knew his purpose in life," McGinnis said. "He proudly walked away from a career in football to a greater calling, which was to protect and defend our country. Pat represents those who have and will make the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom. I am overwhelmed with a sense of sorrow, but I also feel a tremendous feeling of pride for him and his service." (This message has been edited by Laurie)

SR540Beaver: thanks for clarifying

Eeyore--do you mean me? I hope not, and if I've sounded whiney or Eeyorish, my apologies as that was not my intent. Anyway...Bob and Eamonn, thanks. Our council is wonderful with training as most is free. $175 for six full days and all that is provided is certainly not expensive, but not everyone can easily pay that either. What surprised me is asking a unit to make that sort of financial commitment. I like how the troop you mention, Bob, has a set amount that it contributes. That should help prevent what Eamonn ran into--ouch, that added up! JLT--that would be a neat thing for a troop to pay for. This leads to another question: do you fundraise for this purpose? I'm intrigued by this idea of working training costs into a budget--maybe in part because I'm drafting a budget for next year and it's on my mind

Eamonn, thanks on all counts! Only 4 days of no sports remains, and it was glue instead of stitches--easy fix for him, kind of cool too. WB is now a cost issue, but we find ways to make things work. Question for all about WB: does your unit usually pay for it? The letter of invitation states that units should pay the way as this training will benefit the unit. We know that won't happen as funds tend to be tight for the unit. It did lead me to wonder though if this is a common practice.

Giggling over Eamonn's post -- sorry, could not resist