Laurie

Well said NJ. I automatically thought of deception when thinking of the word bait. I'm with you on this issue; you express yourself well and in the way I only wish I could

Congratulations! That sounds like a wonderful trip down memory lane, and a good time of celebration.

There seems to be plenty of baiting taking place these days As to who does it--I haven't paid much attention to who puts out the bait--I simply try to avoid taking the bait. To answer the question, "How does everyone feel about being baited?", I prefer being able to ask a question or ask for opinions directly as it makes for more productive discussions in my opinion. It would be nice to think others are asking sincere questions too, and that is how I tend to approach most posts.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

I just got this issue yesterday, and I glanced through this article. The training review was so positive that I wanted to head for Philmont for that training...and I'm not even a SM

Character Connections is now part of each handbook: Tiger, Wolf, Bear, Webelos. I love this addition! As for telling the boys what Scouting is: I accomplish that through the CM Minute at every pack meeting. I never miss an opportunity to say "good job" and then follow with "this is super not just because it was well done but also because Cub Scouts is all about learning to be a better citizen" ... or "is about building character" ... etc. See what I mean? Slip it in. It's not hard to do, does not take away from the fun, and manages to cheer a boy on in two ways: he met immediate AND on-going goals. In Cubs I know every family, youth and at least one parent and often the siblings. When things come up as they often do, should a boy talk to me, I will listen, then I ask him how his Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack can help him in working through something. I have earned the trust of these young boys, and I handle it with care. After reminding them that these words are actually a help to them, we talk a little about the boy might apply them, and I then encourage him to talk with his family (who is usually not far off) too. Every time I have met a family, and as I continue to, I tell them what we are hoping to help them accomplish by telling them what Cubs is and why we do what we do. Of course I ask for their help too. Now as for a troop, I can't speak to that. I am fortunate to know many of the boys I serve in the troop, and though I'm pretty much behind the scenes, I encourage them all I can. I ask them their goals, ask them what they like about Scouting, ask what they find challenging, and I am always able to find something to commend them on that directly relates to the purpose of Scouting. Very much like the CM Minute, but this is more personal and these times are pretty neat. Its moments like these that make me envy the job of the SM (This message has been edited by Laurie)

To my fellow Scouters: my guess would be that the male leaders aren't wearing an "Official BSA Ladies Blouse". I do with a very pretty official BSA ladies scarf that no man I know would dare to tie in the way I do! And I've yet to see a male leader in a skirt. Am I missing something?? To Wheeler: your point seems to be that you simply believe women should not serve in the BSA. However, they do, and though I agree that women can be harmful to boys' development, I also know of men who also are harmful to boys' development. What you have made clear is that you will not take BSA training; therefore, you don't know that training is provided to equip men AND women to carry out the role of the BSA, which I'll not debate again as it has been discussed at length and is becoming redundant. To Rooster and Ed: this is the understanding through years of teaching received in various churches that I have of a woman's role in the church as well. It is why I, as a woman, will teach only the young children or other women and not mixed groups in church and in bible studies. To Wheeler: The BSA encourages one to be reverent and requires that all members have some sort of belief in God. For that reason--that it is belief, not a defined belief--I do not quote scripture in any Scout meetings. On the forums I refrain from doing so as well, though your use of scripture leads me to address this one final time. I once took verses that you listed to "prove" some point and put them into context. Not with my words, but with the text coming before and after those verses. Now you've even claimed that someone is doing the work of the devil. In all your talk of manliness and of how you are following God, I don't see anything remotely gentle or kind; in none of your posts do you express a desire to learn or to understand others. I said this would be final time addressing this; the following scripture is why it will be my final post to you. Since you have posted that you are a born-again child of God, I feel I must share this and hope it will benefit you. However, what you do with this passage--or any other--is ultimately between you and God. I too wish you peace. Titus 3:9-13 reads: "But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned." Because that particular versus starts with the word "but", here is what preceeds it: "Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peacable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and love of God of our Savior toward men appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy, He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men. But avoid foolish disputes..." Titus 3:1 to the beginning of verse 9(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Fun question! In the Cub Scout Leader Book, there is just a statement that the Cub Scout colors have been blue and gold from the beginning--no explanation of the colors. I've seen ceremonies addressing the colors, but I have not seen "official" explanations of them and look forward to hearing that. We also had our Blue and Gold yesterday. I came early, but others arrived even earlier to set up. It was breathtaking: blue and yellow with a dash of gold (crafting supplies in gold can be hard to find as well as expensive!) everywhere. The room was so bright and cheerful that I just WANTED to walk into it and see more. I couldn't praise our decorations committee enough! We had 16 of our 20 Cubs attend, and we planned for 80 people and had 72. Congratulations on a fine Blue and Gold to you!

Eamonn, that is wonderful news! I am so glad to hear that he is planning out a project and setting goals for Eagle. What a good dad you are to wait it out and give him the chance to set this goal, and you've done something right when he's such an accomplished young man already

Wingnut--do you have a troop library? Our troop does not have one that contains anything other than merit badge books, and it likes it that way (apparently keeping up with them is enough work). The pack keeps a library, and it's a great resource. Not one leader need ever buy a book of any kind, for all that is needed is found in our library. It has been a good investment, one that we bought bit by bit as we had funds available to use. I'd request books after each fundraiser this past summer. Also, my husband and I have a library of Scouting books and field guides that we love to use and that look loved (getting raggedy!), and our sons enjoy using them as well. We take them on hikes and outings, and the boys all seem to like the field guides. I'd encourage your unit and any unit to add books of interest to a unit library if able too; that does away with the individual's need for buying a book by making it available to borrow.

I like this idea and have been mulling it over the past couple days. The council I'm in is huge, so that could be a mighty big expense. However, to do this at the unit level could accomplish a couple of things. It would put the burden on the unit rather than on the council, and it would provide some contact information for the unit. For instance, if a unit were to buy some copies to donate to local libraries, the unit could put a book plate inside that would provide contact information for those who might be interested in joining. One word of caution: I have learned that libraries cannot keep all books, that many have little space for many books and need to choose carefully. Donations may get turned down; it has happened to me, and this is the reason I was given. It is a common practice to go through the library inventory and clear out books that don't get used, are outdated, are multiples in order to make room for newer books. Before donating any book, make sure it will be kept in the library or local library system. I will be presenting this idea (thanks for sharing it fboisseau!) to our pack committee to see if we will be able to donate some Field Books to the local libraries. I will present the idea at Roundtable too, for all units are looking for ways to promote Cubs and Scouts.

LOL Big Dog! One thing that makes a difference is the type of glue used, but unfortunately there's no way for you to know that unless the seller could tell you (have you asked?). I know of one Scout family who thought Super Glue would be easier to use, but when they removed the numbers (tan shirt for Webelos, then bridged to a troop with a different numbers--uh oh!), they were left with a hole A little fabric inside the sleeve with new numbers over the top worked, but if you're talking a Cub shirt, that could get tricky. Would you let us know what does work for you please?

Dave, it is because of your sharing here that I have already taken more time to get to know how to support my DE, to understand his job better (as in what not to go to him with ), and to be very conscious of thanking of him and the SE and other professionals as I meet them. I personally value you--and will say so here--because you have provided an understanding of the pros that I didn't have and probably wouldn't have from anyone else. For that I thank you--and most likely so would my DE if he knew that you're the reason I finally stopped bugging him (This message has been edited by Laurie)

Hops makes a good point in a recent post, and it seems that he is not alone in coming here--as a Scout--to check out what is going on. So, my questions to Scouts are: What do you, as a Scout, want to see in your adult leaders? How can we adults help you to accomplish your Scouting goals, whatever they may be? You see, I've got the books, have plenty of Cub training and have just begun Scout training, but I'd like to hear from you who've been in the program and have the experience. The words of the boys in the units I serve never fall on deaf ears (ie the Cubs' wishes were what I used to develop our summertime calendar); your words will help me be to be a better Scouter. TIA!

I'll second all that Eamonn said I'd be happy to lend a hand and would also be looking forward to helping and meeting a new executive who would be considered a friend. Dave is just that kind of guy. So, a heartfelt ditto to Eamonn's post!

purcelce--sounds like a great night out! ManyIrons--congratulations! What an honor that must be, and how fortunate your unit is to have you. Our district dinner isn't until April, and I'm hoping to go.

By the way, Wheeler... In response to this quote of yours: "Laurie: You are the one that voted down the post "The training of boys to be men"." I am one of seven who voted that post down, and it had received a 100% thumbs down. In response to your quote: "All the rest of my posts you have voted down continuously and consistently." Not only have I not voted thumbs down on your every post, but I've not even read them all. Can't prove what I've read/not read, but anyone can see that some of your posts have no thumbs up or thumbs down--impossible if I have voted every one down. Firstpusk, thank you.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

You, Wheeler, have clearly not read anything that I have written or you would see that I not only promote the idea that young boys need to grow into men, but that I understand how the BSA helps in that process. You question my loyalty to the BSA. Fine, go right ahead, but I am a trained leader who is continuing in training and truly does understand the program. If you cannot say the same, then quite frankly, you've no right to try to correct how I carry out or view the program. Question it? Sure. Correct it? You are not equipped to do so. Do I believe that your definition of what it is to be a man is worthwhile information for the BSA, or let's make it personal--for me? No, I don't. I have said so, and I still think that. I can agree to disagree and not get hung up on the fact that people disagree with me. Yet you have posted at least three times now that I have voted thumbs down for that post--seems that it really bugs you. Have I really voted thumbs down on every post that you've written? Then someone is forging my name, for I've not done so. Many? Yes. All? No. I have not attacked you, though I have not agreed with you on numerous occassions and I have--in this thread--used the verses you listed and put them into context. Not MY context, but I used the verses surrounding what you quoted. You did not use more than part of verses, and the ways they were used were inaccurate. But attack you? Correct, rebuke--yes, I'd plead guilty to that, but attack? You--and anyone else here--is welcome to their opinion of me and my posts. However, think twice about calling me a liar or hypocrite unless you have something solid to back it with.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

I take offense at OGE being criticized this way. He has shown strength of character repeatedly in many threads, and I'd consider him an excellent role model for my sons. Now, about that definition of virtue. I hadn't posted earlier with the hopes Wheeler would go away, but looking at real working definitions from two dictionaries, I have trouble spotting how the BSA could be anything but an organization that promotes virtue. virtue ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vrch) n. 1. a. Moral excellence and righteousness; goodness. b. An example or kind of moral excellence: the virtue of patience. 2. Chastity, especially in a woman. 3. A particularly efficacious, good, or beneficial quality; advantage: a plan with the virtue of being practical. 4. Effective force or power: believed in the virtue of prayer. 5. virtues Christianity. The fifth of the nine orders of angels in medieval angelology. 6. Obsolete. Manly courage; valor. Idiom: by/in virtue of On the grounds or basis of; by reason of: well-off by virtue of a large inheritance. [Middle English vertu, from Old French, from Latin virts, manliness, excellence, goodness, from vir, man. See w-ro- in Indo-European Roots.] Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. virtue \Vir"tue\ (?; 135), n. [OE. vertu, F. vertu, L. virtus strength, courage, excellence, virtue, fr. vir a man. See Virile, and cf. Virtu.] 1. Manly strength or courage; bravery; daring; spirit; valor. [Obs.] --Shak. Built too strong For force or virtue ever to expugn. --Chapman. 2. Active quality or power; capacity or power adequate to the production of a given effect; energy; strength; potency; efficacy; as, the virtue of a medicine. Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about. --Mark v. 30. A man was driven to depend for his security against misunderstanding, upon the pure virtue of his syntax. --De Quincey. The virtue of his midnight agony. --Keble. 3. Energy or influence operating without contact of the material or sensible substance. She moves the body which she doth possess, Yet no part toucheth, but by virtue's touch. --Sir. J. Davies. 4. Excellence; value; merit; meritoriousness; worth. I made virtue of necessity. --Chaucer. In the Greek poets, . . . the economy of poems is better observed than in Terence, who thought the sole grace and virtue of their fable the sticking in of sentences. --B. Jonson. 5. Specifically, moral excellence; integrity of character; purity of soul; performance of duty. Virtue only makes our bliss below. --Pope. If there's Power above us, And that there is all nature cries aloud Through all her works, he must delight in virtue. --Addison. 6. A particular moral excellence; as, the virtue of temperance, of charity, etc. ``The very virtue of compassion.'' --Shak. ``Remember all his virtues.'' --Addison. 7. Specifically: Chastity; purity; especially, the chastity of women; virginity. H. I believe the girl has virtue. M. And if she has, I should be the last man in the world to attempt to corrupt it. --Goldsmith. 8. pl. One of the orders of the celestial hierarchy. Thrones, dominations, princedoms, virtues, powers. --Milton. Cardinal virtues. See under Cardinal, a. In, or By, virtue of, through the force of; by authority of. ``He used to travel through Greece by virtue of this fable, which procured him reception in all the towns.'' --Addison. ``This they shall attain, partly in virtue of the promise made by God, and partly in virtue of piety.'' --Atterbury. Theological virtues, the three virtues, faith, hope, and charity. See --1 Cor. xiii. 13. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. Enough typing for me today! It's time to have a tea party with my daughter, then do some housework

I John 4:6 -- "We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." This is verse 6 in its entirety. It leads to this: "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another." -- I John 4: 7-11 It is preceeded by this: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. You are of God, little children, and overcome them, because He who is in you is greater thatn he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." -- I John 4:1-6 I can speak for myself only, but I read this and ask myself: Am I showing love to others? Am I serving God by serving those around me? Am I certain of my faith, and if not, can I be certain of it? What should the measure of my faith be? Love, service? The earlier verses teach the need to be discerning; yet they lead me to ask: will I discern something and judge or will I discern and live as I ought? For those who may wonder why I am taking so much time to type these verses out, it is because I am deeply troubled at the misuse of them. I do proclaim Jesus Christ, born, died, risen again, and now seated at the right hand of his Father, as my own personal Savior. For His death that led to my security in life, I am thankful, though I confess that I'm not always thankful enough and tend to fail in many ways. (You've all most likely noted that by now ) If you disagree with my words, I'll ask that we may agree to disagree please. If you disagree with what I call God's word, then I'll again ask that we may agree to disagree. It's just that I have read the cautions in Scripture about teaching in Jesus' name (something all verses used has ended up referring to), and I take them seriously amd cannot remain silent when I see verses passed on to others that are not given in context.

effeminacy , virtue, Republic, the hypocrisy of the BSA with its promotion of the socialist organization, the UN, the original intention of the BSA program -- things that Wheeler says he has taught to us, and in that same post boasting of what he has taught, he uses Titus 2:15 to support what he is doing. Titus 2:15: "Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you." What things are being referred to? Those listed up above? Taken in context, this is what Titus 2:1-15 states: "But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine; that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience; the older women likewise, that they may be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things-that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed. Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility, sound speech that cannot be condemned, that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you. Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back, not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things. For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all me, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you." The above passages lead me to ask myself these types of questions: Do I try to be obedient or do I respect authority (that of an employer, government, laws, my husband, my God)? Do I seek to be well pleasing in all things as in to do my very best in all that I do (taking pride in working hard at whatever the task might be, caring about what I do and how I do it by using the right tool or instruction or method, by being self-motivated and not working only when reminded to, by practicing the pursuit of excellence in all things)? On it goes, and we may each apply this to ourselves differently, but staying within the text is key to me when using a text.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

This is an exciting account about the apostles, who having been "put in the common prison" (Acts 5:18) for performing "many signs and wonders" (Acts 5:12). Acts 5:19-21 states: "But at night an angel of the Lord opened the prison doors and brought them out, and said, 'Go, stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life.' And when they heard that, they entered the temple early in the morning and taught. ..." There was a search for the apostles when it was discovered that they were no longer in prison. They were found in the temple, teaching the people. They were brought before the council in verse 27-29... "...and the high priest asked them, saying, 'Did we not strictly command you not to teach in this name? And look, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this Man's blood on us!' But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: 'We ought to obey God rather than men..." The apostles were then beaten and commanded once again in verse 40 "that they should not speak in the name of Jesus". Verse 41 -42 wraps up this account of a choice to obey God rather than man: "So they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name. And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ." I typed the above from the New King James Version of the Holy Bible printed by Nelson. In the above count, I read of men who were chosen by God to deliver a specific message from and about Jesus, and they did so in spite of men telling them not to and in spite of being beaten and shamed for doing so. Again, I'd not take the liberty of believing from this account that I personally should teach any message I choose, citing my reason using Acts 5:29, saying that I am doing this to obey God rather than man. This passage preaches something other than those messages Wheeler is claiming to teach, yet he is using this text to justify his teaching. Knowing that I many of my fellow posters do not use the New Testament or even the Bible, I'd encourage you to check this out--if only to see that it is being manipulated. And an important thing to note: these men, beaten and shamed for their obedience, did not do this to draw attention to themselves but rather to Jesus: the taught and preached in His name, and they REJOICED when they suffered in His name. No ego, no boasting, no selfishness, no personal gain. Quite different from using this text to lead up to asking, basically, how wonderful am **I** for bringing you **my** teachings.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

God's word is being manipulated. Whether one accepts the Holy Bible and the texts quoted as one's own personal authority or not, please see the full context, for I Timothy 4:11 does not simply state to command and teach. It is apparent to me that I may not use this text to command and teach in general, but that I must first be qualified (ie nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which I have followed, trusting in the living God), and I am given specific instruction on what to teach (godliness -- elaborated on if reading more of the preceeding and following text). 1 Timothy 4:11, in context, reads this way: "If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. But reject profane and old wives' fables, and exercise yourself toward godliness. For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having the promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach." The above is verses 6 through 11, copied from the New King James Version of the Holy Bible, published by Nelson.

http://www.scouter.com/compass/Leaders_Resource/Large_Event_Planning/Camporees/ http://usscouts.org/usscouts/camporees.asp I got to each of the above links from right here; I tend to overlook the resources right here at Scouter.com. These are lists of Camporees, each with themes, and maybe one of them would work for you. One thing all the programs you mention have in common is the outdoors--maybe a camporee or camping theme would work for you. In any case, looking through the titles and brief descriptions, it looks like a lot of different themes are here.(This message has been edited by Laurie)

How about using the Good Turn For America program as a theme? It addresses physical fitness, community service, and so much more. It would give you a lot of flexibility. If possible, having some of the classes run by or promoting the Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, and The American Red Cross would bring the program to life and help provide contacts for leaders taking the training. If you've a woodworking session, why not have activities/ideas that could be put to use by various age groups for Habitat for Humanity or other community service projects similar to it. If you've a class on program planning, the Salvation Army and the various activities it lists as possible ways to help could be addressed in practical terms. Games and activities to promote physical fitness that could be played/done that day that could then be taken back to the units. You could work Dave's "The doctor is in" theme into this and Eamonn's game theme in, for both address this new project just kicked off by the BSA. You could potentially get a lot of mileage from something like this, for it would introduce the program, give how-tos in a variety of areas covered by the program, get people excited about becoming involved, make it personal to your locality and therefore to the units, and help equip units to move forward and implement this new program. And it wouldn't take away from the classes you planned already because it's a BSA themed program and flexible. Still brainstorming Here's the link to the program: http://www.goodturnforamerica.org/(This message has been edited by Laurie)

Thanks Overtrained Interestingly enough, of the ideas listed above, the one by the Scouts had many ideas taken from the Cub Scout How To Book. I don't know if the Scouts know that, but I recognized some of these things. Do you happen to have that book? It's a great resource, and with a little adjusting, I think many of the ideas in it could be used for Cubs through Venturing.