Kudu

Often when office leadership enthusiasts use the term "Patrol Method" they mean "Troop Method:" What the Patrols do together. They see the Troop as the primary unit in Scouting. They tell you that you need a PLC in a one-Patrol Troop because that is how a Troop works. And of course you need an SPL in a one-Patrol Troop because that is how a Troop is structured. William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's definition of a "Real" Patrol was simple: A Patrol that makes its hike plans in a Patrol Meeting separate from the rest of the Troop; then acts on those plans and gets out on a Patrol Hike separate from the rest of the Troop at least once a month. For details see his "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol:" http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm If you read John Thurman's fly-on-the-wall transcript of "The Court of Honor in Session" you see how very different B-P's Patrol System is from the Troop Method. Note that the Court of Honor (PLC) does not even hear about the destination of a Patrol's Hike until the next PLC meeting: http://inquiry.net/patrol/court_honor/coh_session.htm If, contrary to the Troop Method, you start with the Patrol as the primary unit of Scouting, and live up to Baden-Powell's and Green Bar Bills' minimum standard of at least one Patrol Hike per month away from the other Patrols, the SPL, and the adult leaders, then you should want your Troop's best leaders as your Patrol Leaders, because they are the Scouts you must trust with the safety of your boys without adult supervision. If your SPL is your Troop's best leader, why leave him back at camp with the adults? Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

AZMike writes: "I'd fill the time by listening to podcasts and music on my iPod....It was good training for the hikes with my troop. " One of my Wood Badge buddies, a young and athletic District Commissioner, often backpacked with my Troop. I was shocked the first time I realized he was listening to an iPod on the trail! But then I realized that the Troop's no-electronics policy I had inherited when I became Scoutmaster was stupid. Most active young adults listen to music or spoken media while walking, hiking, backpacking, paddling, rowing, biking, etc. Is there is any reason that Boy Scouts should not do the same? Baden-Powell's version of Scouting is based on walking: Ranks are a series of Journeys and Expeditions, and (like Green Bar Bill's "Real" Patrol Method) B-Ps' Patrol System includes at least one monthly Patrol Hike. http://inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/journey_requirements.htm I wonder what the correlation might be between "modern" sedentary car camping Troops, and adult-imposed "no electronics" policies. Do ANY hardcore backwoods Troops here ban iPods on the trail? Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

AZMike writes: "I would hike down the street for 30 minutes at a good pace, then turn around and go back. I lost a fair amount of weight this way before I started hitting the gym again. " That hour of walking is probably more than enough to maintain your ideal weight without fasting. The "Walking: About.Com" Website is very helpful: "For weight loss and general health, the US Surgeon General recommends: "Be physically active for at least 30 minutes (adults) or 60 minutes (children) on most days of the week." This level of activity burns approximately 150 calories, which would burn 5 pounds in 6 months. This level of exercise reduces disease risks and should be considered the minimum daily requirement, regardless of weight. http://walking.about.com/ Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Brewmeister writes: "How do you encourage patrol hikes in general?" A worthwhile destination and good food! Backpacking is a good place to start unsupervised Patrol Hikes (and Scout-led electronics policies) because it filters out the indoor Scouts and indoor adults. Back when Scouting was popular, Patrol Leader Training was six (6) months of position-specific training on how to plan and lead Patrol Hikes without adult supervision: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

I starting walking three miles a day and lost about 20 pounds in two months. I did notice that I was eating less, but as long as I keep walking (and don't drink sugar drinks), my body is stablized at a BMI of 21 without giving up stuff like pizza and pasta. Like Eamonn (who walks five miles a day), I weigh about the same as I did at 16. Baden-Powell's version of Scouting is based on walking: Ranks are a series of Journeys and Expeditions, and a Patrol System of monthly Patrol Hikes. http://inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/journey_requirements.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

All bad requirements are caused by bad Scout theory: The so-called "Aims & Methods." Baden-Powell designed Scouting to be the opposite of school: The aim of each rank is a demonstration of Scoutcraft competency through a series of Journeys and Expeditions of increasing difficulty: http://inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/journey_requirements.htm Instead of Traditional Boy Scout activities such as an "Advancement" based on a series of Journeys, and a "Patrol Method" based on monthly Patrol Hikes, we have "First Year" checklists designed to meet abstract "Aims" through increasingly non-camping activities: Gym class pull ups to meet the "Aim" of "Fitness," for instance. Instead of Baden-Powell's "Practical Christianity" (pure volunteerism--because "to help other people at all times" is the right thing to do) the 1972 fake Method "Leadership Development" teaches Boy Scouts to demand compensation for hours of public service and months in Positions of Responsibility. Why not just pay our kids to go to church? Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

5yearscouter writes: "Alton brown has a whole cooking show on Good Eats about the box fan dehydrating system." Box Fan Dehydrator: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5912487412723519389# Beef Jerky: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/beef-jerky-recipe/index.html Dried Fruit: http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/season11/dried_fruit/witheringbites.htm

If you plan to recruit new Scouts and improve retention, you are better off starting with one "Real" Patrol of ten Scouts, under your most mature Scout as Patrol Leader. A trustworthy Patrol that camps a football field away from the adults and hikes independently of "adult association" provides Scouts with an immediate sense of adventure (and a wider choice of tent-mates) than membership in a tiny Patrol of four Scouts at best. If you have access to a public school, the following presentation can recruit 15 Scouts per year: http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

To make the date more rememberable for potentially popular outings we further boost the attendance percentage by collecting a first come, first served, "non-refundable" $10 deposit six (6) weeks in advance. Trips like climbing, 50 mile bike trips, canoeing, shotgun, rifle, archery, scuba, unsupervised backpacking, etc., also bring in athletic parents with serious outdoor skills who never attend the Webelos III campouts. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

SeattlePioneer writes: "I'm wondering if this might perk up interest in being Den Chief for a Tiger Cub Den." On a related note, a Breast Examination Eagle Project:

I met Buffalo Skipper when he camped at McGregor Smith back in January: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=337036 I'll be at Camp Thunder, GA the week of July 8th, 2012.

The Scout's Backpacking Cookbook by Tim & Christine Conners: http://preview.tinyurl.com/bmm76fj Their Appalachian Trail Jerky is so addictive that the Guide to Safe Scouting should forbid it: Appalachian Trail Jerky Total weight: 12 ounces, Weight per serving: 1 ounce Total servings: 12 2 pounds flank steak (slightly frozen to make it easier to cut) Marinade: 1 cup teriyaki sauce 2 tablespoons liquid smoke cup low-salt soy sauce 2 tablespoons Worcestershire Sauce I teaspoon onion powder 2 teaspoons pepper 2 teaspoons crushed red pepper 2 tablespoons brown sugar At home: Trim fat from steak and slice with grain into x 1 1/2 inch strips. Combine marinade ingredients in a bowl. Add beef strips and stir, making sure sauce covers meat. Cover with plastic and marinate overnight. The next day, place meat strips flat on two large cookie sheets. Bake in a 150 oven for about 10 to 12 hours. Pack in a sealed container or bag. Store in freezer until time to leave.

"I'm not sure about other Scout Groups? But our Group Committee did not have any active Scout parents on it." That is because Baden-Powell's Patrol Leaders do all the things that BSA Troop Committees do to keep our Boy Scout program adult-led: No adult control of the bank account, No Scoutmaster Conferences, No Boards of Review, No "Scout Spirit" requirements (the ultimate adult wild card), No POR requirements, No six month popularity contests, No Guide to Safe Scouting, No indoor "Leadership Development" office manager skills... ...so what's left for a committee of indoor mommies and daddies to do? "Functions 234. (ii) The S.M. will, however, delegate as far as possible,to the Court of Honour as in Rule 242 all internal matters of discipline and administration, including the expenditure of Troop funds, as defined in Rule 209. " http://inquiry.net/traditional/por/groups.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Tampa, So it sounds familiar? Baden-Powells' Patrol System is the solution to 90% of the BSA's problems (the remaining 10% being caused by poor reading comprehension) However, the "Real" Patrol System remains a mere historical curiosity until an adult first recognizes some aspect of it as the most practical solution to a problem that the "Troop Method" causes him or her at that moment in time. Pure Cognitive Dissonance: Otherwise why do thousands of volunteers fail to implement Wood Badge's 300 feet between Patrols (as it still remains in some courses) and the "adult-free" (no Staffers) Wood Badge Patrol Hike? Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net (This message has been edited by Kudu)

Baden-Powell designed Scouting to work without an SPL: The position is purely optional even in B-P's ideal Troop of 32 Scouts. B-P's minimum standard for the Patrol System is a monthly Patrol Hike without adult supervision, and 150-300 feet between Patrols when camping as a Troop (in your case between your one Scout Patrol and the adults). The Patrol Hike can be held on your Troop's monthly campout: The purpose is to provide the opportunity for the Patrol Leader to teach practical Scoutcraft for advancement (as opposed to a "Troop Guide" doing that in a Troop setting). A number of how-to resources on how a Scoutmaster can guide a single Patrol to meet B-P's minimum standards can be found at: http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Yes, the "Group" is how Baden-Powell designed Scouting, so that is how it is structured in the rest of the world. For all the dry, technical details, see: PART VI. GROUP ORGANISATION of Baden-Powell's PO&R: Rules on how to Play the Game of Scouting for Boys. http://inquiry.net/traditional/por/index.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

(Now that the OP's question has been answered) Oak Tree writes: "Can't say I've ever heard of a troop that had multiple librarians. " The perfect number is 26: One librarian for every letter in the alphabet. That way most Scouts First Class and above would already have a permanent POR to apply the EDGE Method to and become a great leader. The Patrol Method could then return to the spirit of pure volunteerism where natural leaders step up for additional responsibilities, as it was in Green Bar Bill and Baden-Powell's golden era, before the invention of required POR compensation for advancement. Patrol Leadership could once again be limited to the best man for the job: The Scout most capable of leading his Patrol into the woods without adult helicopter association, rather than just anybody who "needs" a POR for six months. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

No reason you can't have one Troop Quartermaster for each Patrol.

Basementdweller writes: "Freeze dried food, who could afford the stuff...... We get our grub at the local grocery......all of it. There are tons of resources for DIY backpacking meals.... Shelf stable bacon, packet chicken and tuna, noodle dishes on and on.... Heck there is a spicey noodle dish in the asian section I have been taking....." Mmmmm, our local Troop's first canoe trip is coming up and I'd love to have some shelf-stable bacon recipes! One Patrol decided to dehydrate some ground beef and then add it to "Cheesburger Flavor" Hamburger Helper. The Troop's usual favorite backpacking meal is: Piute Mountain Pizza Total servings: 1 1 (5-ounce) bag Boboli Pizza Sauce 2 pitas 1 ounce cheese 1 tablespoon oil I cup water Other toppings (optional) Cut cheese into small pieces. Heat oil in frying pan. Cut a 3-inch slice into the side of each whole pita, enough to cause the inside to separate. Cut a small hole in the corner of the bag and shoot the sauce into the holes of each pita. Stuff your cheese into the pita along with anything else you'd like to add. Place in the hot frying pan over medium heat and cook both sides. You can cover the pan, but make sure the pitas don't burn. When cheese is melted, it's ready. From Lipsmackin' Backpackin' ($10.85) See: http://tinyurl.com/4ygv3mt Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

To sum up my post on page three (3) of this thread: An atheist who does not believe in supernatural stuff can simply define "God" as the sum-total of all the natural laws in the universe. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

dennis99ss wrote: "By learning leadership, and decision making skills, and interpersonal relationship skills at a campout, the knowledge that they gain can be transferred to their life outside of camping. I am not teaching them how to camp so when they grow old, they can hike the AT without problem." That in a nutshell sums up the influence of "leadership" skills on the Boy Scout program. If you have not yet been to Wood Badge you will certainly find there the company of kindred souls who consider it to be Scouting's "mountaintop experience." Without the mountaintop, of course We could not be more opposite: I teach Scouts "how to camp" as if outdoor skills will be important to them for the rest of their lives... ...but of course a Troop trailer does not necessarily rule out what Baden-Powell believed to require real-world leadership skills: Patrols camped 150-300 feet apart, and monthly Patrol Hikes without adult supervision. I did wonder when you wrote: "we do bring the generator, tv and dish if our campout is on football weekends, playoffs, etc....I must disagree, however, that the trailer is a luxury. In our troop, it is far from it, and, frankly, we are good with it." Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Eamonn writes: "Of course the height and weight of the Scout might have to be taken into account." No joke. Patrol "Grouping Standards" were perhaps the BSA's earliest attempt to replace Baden-Powell's Patrol System with "modern" leadership theory: "The height and weight standard is more scientifically correct than the age standard, although it has not been tested out enough to warrant any authoritative declaration in its favor. "If this method is used for grouping, the standards for athletic competition among the boys might be used, that is, all the boys of ninety pounds and under might be put together, the same being true for those under one hundred and ten, one hundred and twenty-five, and one hundred and forty pounds. "If height is used, boys of fifty-six and a half inches in height and classifying under ninety pounds in weight, might be grouped together. Also boys of sixty-three inches in height and coming within the one hundred and ten pound weight. "This standard will doubtless become the real basis of all groupings in the future, but as yet it needs more demonstration in order that the various classifications may be made accurately. " http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/1st/group_standard.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Sorry, Eagle732, but the regular use of three or four canoe trailers likely disqualifies your Troop from Webelos III status.

"Well, there WAS one lonely trailer..." Maybe Eagle will loan you one of his four...

To paraphrase Tampa: A Troop Trailer is a mathematical necessity determined by multiplying the number of Patrols by the cubic feet per Patrol Box Lose the Patrol Boxes and you lose Cub Scouting's grip on the Boy Scout Program. GKlose writes: "the next purchase after that was a carport/canopy ("why the whole troop can fit under it!") and a large 3-burner propane stove ("why we can cook for the whole troop on that thing!"). Last thing I heard the same guy ask about was a large dutch oven (again, "we can feed the whole troop out of that thing!"). See the way this was going? It was not exactly reinforcing patrol method." The Troop Trailer is the perfect icon for Leadership Development's contribution to Scouting: the "Troop Method." Despite lip-service to the contrary, the primary unit of the "modern" Patrol Method is the whole Troop. Why was the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol removed from the "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster Specific Training, and replaced with the "EDGE Method"? Because Patrol Leaders and Patrols are "explained" in the Troop Organization and Troop PLC presentations, of course! If not Scoutmaster-Specific Training, then where are Den Leaders supposed to learn that "separate Patrol activities" means any "leadership" task more challenging for a Patrol Leader than to cook and clean in the Patrol's "separate" corner of a Troop's central carport canopy? Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net