Kudu

Pick and choose who gets to go with: First Come, First Served -- Monthly Permission Slips: A month in advance, a 8.5 x 11" information sheet about the next campout: WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, FEE, DEPARTING & RETURNING times, LEADERS IN CHARGE (with cell phone numbers), DRIVING DIRECTIONS. Boiler-plate description of the campout (Webelos III or High Adventure). "Special Considerations" section for High Adventure treks, mostly gear information: Remember that High Adventure tends to attract outdoor parents who do not attend regular BSA Webelos III monthly outings. ---

The insides of a set of my seemingly well-designed compression sacks became sticky, as did the rain fly of my MSR Hubba-Hubba backpacking tent. Must be the chemical reaction of a waterproof coating of some sort. Very mysterious. Some Wal-Mart camping departments sell uncoated compression sacks VERY cheaply: No problems so far after ten years of use. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Tell him if his parents want it bad enough, he should hold out for an F-150.

Yes, because the requirements are designed for boys like him.

"However, what Rick means by the "Baden Powell" "Patrol Method" has been built, post by post, over the years, and I would sooner he answer a question put to him about his understandings, beliefs, and opinions." I would make a distinction between Baden-Powell's Patrol System (Patrol Hikes as training for individual Journeys), and Hillcourt's Patrol Method (Patrol Hikes as training for Patrol Campouts), but maybe all that historical context stuff is just too confusing? Walking has remarkable health and fitness benefits (As discussed in the parent thread: I lost 20 pounds walking 3 mi

The GtSS still allows Patrol Hikes without adult association. As I explained elsewhere, here is the context for the Patrol backpacking videos I posted in this thread on Thursday, 5/17/2012: 8:13:42 PM: 1) Camp as a "Troop" on Friday night, Patrols at least 300 feet apart. 2) Saturday morning the older Scouts set off on their own Patrol Hike, taking about an eight (8) mile route to our Saturday afternoon location. This ad hoc Patrol is self-selected (by invitation only). As you can see from the videos, gung-ho Scouts as young as 11 are sometimes asked to join. In that case, the old

Hearing from Tahawk and his ilk about what the B.S.A. rules require is certainly thought provoking. Does anyone else see anything against the rules in my last post?

The point being that if you "brainstorm" how to boost membership, then a possible correlation in the fall in membership after 1972, and the end (that year) of Hillcourt's "Real" Patrol Leader Training (how to plan and conduct a Patrol Hike), should provide ideas as "creative" as replacing camping with soccer. As you have pointed out, the Patrol Hike is still a part of Wood Badge, so to test Baden-Powell's Patrol System as a possible membership booster (and anti-obesity strategy) would be cheap and easy: 1) Find a few experimental Councils around the country: Those that still separ

Boy Scouts get Tech-Savvy to Boost Membership An Eagle Scout who has worked for the Boy Scouts for 40 years, Brock noted there was a time when leaders thought Scouts should leave their cellphones behind when they headed out on hikes. Now, though, the thought is why not bring them along? http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-05/D9UUDSLO0.htm That is the point of this thread. The Boy Scouts' membership peaked in 1972 at almost 5 million. Why is it than when BSA millionaires ponder how to "boost membership," they never examine how Leadership Development killed the "Real" P

Orson Scott Card Interview on military leadership and the development of the character "Ender": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMTpyh70m7w&feature=related Orson Scott Card - Ender in Exile Book Trailer. The author on Ender's post-military civilian leadership (at age 14): Fan "movie credits" song. Good quality audio with selected frames from Ender's Game Marvel Comics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQjWFo5alac Ender's Game Chapter 1: Frame by frame video of the Marvel Comics graphic novel with soundtrack from the audio book. Includes the after-school f

Tahawk writes: "I have uncritically accepted for decades that wilderness backpacking is Scouting at its best. The most impressive troops I have seen were strong in the outdoor program." Um, Eagle732, you missed your cue: According to your "inference" logic, we must conclude that Tahawk tells Scouts who don't backpack that they are not the "best," and that their Troop is not "impressive." On this issue I find common ground with Tahawk. I would add that because Baden-Powell's backpacking Journeys are no longer expected monthly for the Patrol Method, or "required" for advance

smalltroopSM writes: "Just make sure the patrols are boy led with a seasoned scouter close by to prevent "Lord of the Flies" from breaking out." That, in a nutshell, is the downside of "leadership training."

Eagle732, and it's a fairly simple answer: "What kind of question is that?" In other words, I question your motivation for asking it. You seem to be searching for some cruel moral absolutism, rather than finding common ground on which to build a challenging outdoor program for boys who crave outdoor adventure even though it is no longer "required" to reach even the highest rank in American Scouting. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Eagle732 writes: "I'll ask again; Do you have boys in your unit that can't or won't backpack?" Yes. Eagle732 writes: "Do you tell them they are not 'Real Scouts'?" What kind of question is that? Eagle732 writes: "My two scouts that don't backpack or canoe. One is legally blind and deaf, the other can not leave his parents alone overnight because at 14 he is their caretaker, they both have severe medical condition (MS and cancer). Both boys are real scouts." I'll ask again: Why do so many Americans see "inclusiveness" as an opportunity to dumb down

Scoutfish writes: "Then take a urban troop. Not welfare boys, but boys who are bottom middle class or even upper lower class incomes. You know- just able to afford to be in scouting.....but barely. They can't afford to travel 100 miles or 3 or 4 hours away to a rural or wilderness setting. The only option they really have is a city/county park...So, which scouts are "REAL scouts"?" Why do so many Americans see "inclusiveness" as an opportunity to dumb down Scouting? If you want to read about Real Scouts in urban Troops, see my article in the winter 1997 issue of Scouter Magazin

"The only "Real" Boy Scouts are those whose great Scouting passion is to camp out of a backpack or canoe." Eagle732 writes: "When you make the statement that only scouts who participate at a certain level are "Real Scouts" then you infer that the rest are not "Real" scouts. " If only every adult Eagle could be so offended by the praise of Traditional First Class Scouts. I used Hillcourt's term "Real" because the activities of a "Real Patrol" and a "Real Scout" are exactly the same: A "Real Patrol" practices the same backpacking Journeys that its Second Class Scouts wo

Eagle732 writes: "No need to buy those over-priced backpacking meals, Google "Freezer Bag Cooking"." Thanks. I had the book, but never got around to visiting their Website. I printed out a dozen recipes and called the titles off to the Patrols at a meeting. The following three got amazingly positive Scout reviews at this morning's "Thorns & Roses" session: "Bacon & Cheese Pasta" Ingredients 3 oz pack ramen (any flavor) 1⁄4 c shelf stable bacon 1⁄4 c shelf stable parmesan cheese 1⁄2 t granulated dried garlic 1⁄4 t red pepper flakes 1⁄4 t gr

Yes, try the PLC/annual planning, but that did not work for me after I retired and moved to the south. Leadership theory may be fine in Troops with established hard core outdoor programs, but can definitely work against change in a Troop with no experience in High Adventure. The Troop in my new neighborhood gives each Assistant Scoutmaster a minute at the end of the meeting to say something (most don't), so I announced I was going on "backwoods fishing trip" (I did NOT use the term "backpacking") and if anyone wanted to tag along come see me after the meeting. About half the Troop

Eagle732 writes: "The comment I made was in reference to your statement about "Real Scouts" (individuals), not real patrols. When you make the statement that only scouts who participate at a certain level are "Real Scouts" the you infer that the rest are not "Real" scouts. I've got two scouts in my troop right now that have never been backpacking or canoeing. " So you are OK with Green Bar Bill's statement that only Patrols that walk into the woods once a month without adult association are "Real" Patrols, but you draw the line at Baden-Powell's class system that defines a Scout's "C

BrotherhoodWWW writes: "With a SPL you then can have an ASPL which satisfies a rank requirement." And with a SPL and nine ASPLs in a ten-Scout Troop, you could satisfy ten POR rank requirements and not cut any good leaders out of the one Patrol!

Eagle732 writes: "I don't understand this need you have to label certain scouts as "Real Scouts"." Eagle732, Do you understand Green Bar Bill's "need" to label Patrols that hike at least once a month without adult association as "Real Patrols"?

Eagledad, Maybe you could be more specific and point out how "the adult or adults are actively making decisions for the boys on their leadership" in John Thurman's fly-on-the-wall transcript of "The Court of Honor in Session": http://inquiry.net/patrol/court_honor/coh_session.htm

"The solution is simple: Develop a backpacking program." Brewmeister writes: "Boys want the adventure of the woods but the woods are not outside the back door. How do you develop a backpacking program when you must rely on the parents (or older scouts who can drive) to get the scouts to where they need to be to start backpacking?" Brewmeister, Are you just asking a practical transportation question: "How do the Scouts get driven to the trailhead if the adults don't stick around to hike with them"? If so, then (given current Patrol Overnights policy), we usually:

Second Class writes: "Some boys are there ONLY because mom or dad says so. They are the reluctant scouts that, IMHO bring down the entire troop, in spirit, in attitude, in percentages." Worse than that, making sure that boys who hate camping rotate through a Boy Scout Troop's leadership positions is the whole point of leadership development's invention of Positions of Responsibility requirements in 1965, the year that Green Bar Bill retired. The Patrol Method must be dumbed down to the Cub Scout level so that reluctant Patrol Leaders learning office management formulas don't endange

"Do ANY hardcore backwoods Troops here ban iPods on the trail?" Eagle732 writes: "electronics become a distraction ... texting during a Scouts Own Service (remember that incident Kudu?) ...while the Patrol Leader is planning the next outing with his patrol." Scouts' Own, Patrol planning sessions, summer camp offices, laptops at office meetings, OA Chapter ceremony practice, I feel your pain gentlemen. To that I would add my own negative visceral reaction to electronics while cabin camping and Webelos III tent camping. AZMike writes: "Kudu, since you spun this threa