Kudu

"parents never really see the good stuff because it happens out in the woods." "Scouting is a Game with a Purpose: To Update One's Facebook Profile Whilst Advancing a Suntan" (Baden-Powell, Founder of Scouting). "The fun and adventure - what's important to the boys - is delayed." Not if you schedule your recruiting presentations for the day of your meetings, on the week of a campout. So: 10 AM Recruiting Presentation 3-5 PM Call parents of boys who signed "Yes! I Want to Go Camping! 7 PM 15 new members attend "How to Pack for your First Campout" demonstration, then dodge ball. Friday, 7PM. Camping 300 feet from the other Patrols. Easy Peasy! http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

"Today, I instruct the boys that they shouldn't be using their iPods on trail because they need to be aware of their surroundings and able to hear trail commands...." As you can see from our YouTube vids, our Scouts are free to use their IPods on the trail. So far they have suffered only a few fatalities. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

If only outdoorsmen were as good as office workers at getting fake Baden-Powell quotes to stick: "Leadership skills are like a suntan-Something you get naturally whilst leading your Patrol into the backwoods without Adult Association" (Baden-Powell, Founder of Scouting). or "Replacing Wood Badge with office theory is like getting a suntan under fluorescent lights" (Baden-Powell, Founder of Scouting). or "Troop leadership training is like a suntan--something you get naturally whilst camping your Patrol 100 yards from the others" (Baden-Powell, Founder of Scouting). Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

SeattlePioneer writes: "Where is our curly horned African antelope when we need him?" Yes, if you must cut the nuts off your unit's Patrol Method, "Adult Association" at mealtimes is your most effective surgical option. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

shortridge writes: "OK, so we have a baseline of how things were done back in the day." No. We have a baseline that shows human nature is exactly the same now, here in this very thread, as it was "back in the day." The most violent form of child abuse is still not considered fit for this polite discussion, even though we profess to "care deeply" about child victims. The baseline is Cognitive Dissonance: Like a deer cannot recognize a big red flag, nobody here can recognize graphic child abuse unless it fits a pattern they can recognize from a pamphlet or "Time to Tell" video. shortridge writes: "Child abuse was no less horrible then than it is now. The old-time SEs had the same obligation to protect then as now." Scout Executives have no such obligation. As we all understand from our Congressional Charter discussions, the BSA has no obligation to obey any law until they have been successfully sued in court. In every SE's secret files are tens of millions of dollars worth of sworn statements by Boy Scouts' parents and religious leaders affirming their intent to commit the most heinous abuse imaginable: Prolonged mental and physical torture ending in wrongful death. Someday some lawyer will figure that out, and the BSA will be obligated to print in the Boy Scout Handbook descriptions like the following court cases, to teach Boy Scouts to Recognize, Resist, and Report what their 21st century parents, Scout Leaders, and Scout Executives would not: Ian Lundman, age 11, died of diabetes in 1989 in suburban Minneapolis. His father had left Christian Science, but did not have custody. The boy lost weight and became lethargic. A school official noticed a fruity odor on Ians breath, a classic diabetes symptom, but did not recognize it as such nor did she know his mother and stepfather had religious beliefs against medical care. They retained a Christian Science practitioner for spiritual treatment of Ians illness. The practitioner billed them $446 for his prayers. An unlicensed Christian Science nurse sat by Ians bedside for the last five hours of his life as he lay in a diabetic coma. She knew that he did not respond to anyone. She observed his vomiting, labored breathing, excessive urination, facial spasms, and clenched teeth. Nevertheless, her concept of care was to give him drops of water through a straw and to tie a sandwich bag and washcloth around his scrotum. She did not call for medical help or ask his mother to obtain it. A jury awarded Ian's father $5 million in compensatory damages and $9 million in punitive damages. In 1986, Robyn Twitchell, who lived near Boston, died of peritonitis and a twisted bowel after a five-day illness. It began with his screaming and vomiting. By the second day, his parents Ginger and David Twitchell were calling the Christian Science churchs worldwide public relations manager for advice. He assured them that the law granted them the right to use Christian Science treatment instead of medical treatment. On the fourth day, a church nurse recorded: Child listless at times, rejecting all food, moaning in pain, three wounds on thigh. The nurse force-fed him and directed his mother to feed him every half hour. On the fifth day, he was vomiting a brown, foul-smelling substance. Autopsy photos showed bright red lips and chin, probably because the acid in the vomit had eaten the skin off. His scrotum and about 15 inches of his ruptured intestine were jet black because their blood supply had been cut off. He was so dehydrated that his skin stayed up when pinched. Neighbors closed their bedroom window so they would not hear the boys screams. Ginger and David Twitchell were convicted of manslaughter in 1990. http://childrenshealthcare.org/?page_id=132

lrsap writes: "But there are jobs that need to be done, and if no Scout does them you know what that means." Not really I agree with Bill that not all boxes on an organizational chart need to be filled. If a Scout is a natural Librarian or Historian, then his passion can make a noticeable impact on a Troop. It makes sense to keep him on, rather than rushing him off because another Scout "needs" that POR. But if nobody wants to be Librarian, then so what if all a reluctant Librarian does is sign books in and out for two minutes a week? Who reads anymore, anyway... And what is "fair"? When the most talented outdoor leaders stay on as Patrol Leaders, they do it because of a natural passion for outdoor adventure and because volunteering their talent is the right thing to do. They certainly don't care if the Librarian only works eight minutes a month. There are as many solutions to the artificial problem of PORs, as there are different Troop "personalities." So just use the Scoutmaster Conference to work backwards from your own Troop's unique personality: 1) Our solution at one time was for the Patrol Leaders to elect as SPL our football heroes, jazz and marching band types, and other Scouts who were good indoor leaders, but were "too busy" to go camping. It was understood that the Patrol Leaders ran the Troop, so they elected SPLs to run the indoor meetings and chair PLC meetings. When we went camping, the SPL was not missed. We used Green Bar Bill's Patrol Method, which meant that a "Patrol Election" is really just a nomination that a Patrol sends to the PLC to be discussed, voted upon, and then approved subject to the Scoutmaster's veto, and a 4-6 week "period of probation" before his formal appointment to the "high office of Patrol Leader." In GBB's Patrol Method, the Scoutmaster's job is to meet with a Patrol to tactfully head off an obvious bad choice in the first place. So when we ALL made a really bad mistake and allowed a promising Patrol Leader to take office, who (months later) showed no interest or ability to lead without Adult Association, then the PLC would "promote" him to Assistant Senior Patrol Leader where he would be safely out of the way for the remainder of the six months he needed for a POR requirement. 2) In radical Outdoor Adventure Troops, the Scouts know which boys can handle themselves (stand up to bullies) when the adults are not around, and still treat everyone fairly. If your Troop camps its Patrols Baden-Powell's 300 feet apart, and sends Patrols out without "Adult Association," then you have already seen how quickly your outdoor Scouts can adopt a "Troop culture" that keeps the most qualified leaders on as Patrol Leaders in order to enjoy the freedom and responsibility of the open trail. Such suburban Troops tend to have waiting lists, and indoor Webelos families are encouraged to consider other Troops. Outdoor boys who do get in, tend to get their self-esteem from the rush of adrenaline, not from stupid POR advancement requirements, "OK, yeah. I'll be Historian. So do we have that climbing tower reserved?" 3) At the other end of the spectrum are large Eagle Mills which follow Leadership Development's "controlled failure" spirit of the law. The solution there can be a backpacking program where the indoor SPL, and all three of his appointed indoor ASPLs, and his two appointed indoor Troop Guides, and the weak Patrol Leaders, and all the indoor Eagles, and all their indoor mommies and daddies will stay far, far away from anything that involves walking into the woods with packs on their backs, thank you very much! The outdoor Scouts then form ad hoc Patrols and work out with the outdoor adults which Scouts are responsible enough to be trusted to physically lead in the backwoods without "Adult Association." Yours at 300 feet, Kudu (This message has been edited by Kudu)

"Can folks here with longer memories than mine explain ... Is it like race relations - there has been such a sea change in attitudes that what looked like enlightenment in the 1960s appears almost racist today? " The normalization of child abuse is easy to understand, Shortridge. 1) Read the case histories at: http://childrenshealthcare.org/?page_id=132 2) From a Boy Scout's point of view, read the disclaimer for Personal Fitness Merit Badge: "If meeting any of the requirements for this merit badge is against the Scout's religious convictions, the requirement does not have to be done if the Scout's parents and the proper religious advisers state in writing that to do so would be against religious convictions. The Scout's parents must also accept full responsibility for anything that might happen because of this exemption." 3) Try to name even one person who gives a crap. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Position of Responsibility ("POR") requirements were imposed on Boy Scouts in 1965 by the followers of Bla Bnthy, just before William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's retirement. They then began the work of deconstructing Wood Badge by replacing Hillcourt's "Patrol Method" (based on outdoor skills) with Bnthy's "Patrol Method" based on White Stag "leadership" theory. Hillcourt's Patrol Leader Training took six (6) months because it taught Patrol Leaders how to take their Patrols on Patrol Hikes and Patrol Overnights to work on advancement without a "Troop Guide" and "Adult Association." Bnthy's new "Method of Scouting," called Leadership Development, was released in 1972. It took "Patrol Leader Training" away from the Patrol Leaders, replaced it with "Troop Leader Training," and featured a path to Eagle that did not require a single campout. A million Boy Scouts left the new "improved" BSA program. So the answer to your question, "Would this not allow the scouts to lead the troop as a truly scout lead troop instead of having term limits?" is: What version of "Patrol Method" do you mean? If by "Patrol Method" you mean the old-school Baden-Powell "Physical Distance" leadership where a Patrol Leader camps his Patrol B-P's 300 feet away from the other Patrols, and physically leads his Patrol into the backwoods without "Adult Association," then you want your Troop's most mature Scouts to be the Patrol Leaders. If by "Patrol Method" you mean the "Leadership Development" Patrol Method where Boy Scouts camp close together like Webelos Scouts in a campsite about the size of an end-zone, and pretend to use leadership theory to cook and clean under constant "Adult Association" at all times, then it really doesn't matter which Scouts are in "Positions of Responsibility," does it? The way to avoid regular elections in an old-school Troop is to make it your business to understand a Scout's talents during every Scoutmaster Conference. If he is not an obvious natural leader, and/or he expresses no interest in replacing his Patrol Leader, then see what other interests he may have, and work with the SPL (if you have one) and/or the PLC to find him a "POR" before you sign off on that Scoutmaster Conference. The popularity contest, circus of school elections every six months (to "learn about democracy") is an adult need. Most Scouts don't care about that stuff, except for the artificial "need" of a POR for advancement. If you take care of that artificial need in your Scoutmaster Conferences, then a Patrol can hold an election when it actually needs to change leaders. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Parents of boy who drowned filed lawsuit against Boy Scouts of America By Roxana Orelana The Salt Lake Tribune A Las Vegas couple is suing the Boy Scouts of America for negligence after their son died in July 2011 while in a summer camp scuba diving program in Bear Lake. Christopher and Sherry Tuvell filed the wrongful-death lawsuit against the national organization this week in U.S. District Court on behalf of their 12-year-old son David Christopher Tuvell. On July 13, 2011, David was participating in Discover Scuba Program, which is offered by and through several agencies and business, including the Boy Scouts of America, Bear Lake Boy Scout Aquatic Camp, Blue Water Scuba, dive instructors Lowell Huber and Corbertt Douglas and the Professional Association of Diving Instructors. All are defendants in the lawsuit. The boy was diving with another Scout, a Scoutmaster and a diving instructor in about 14 feet of water in a roped-off area on the east side of Bear Lake. In the diving area, there is a line laid along the bottom of the lake to guide divers back to shore. The instructor and the Scoutmaster surfaced, leaving the two boys holding onto the line. When the instructor dove again, the two boys were no longer holding onto the line and were nowhere in sight, according to news reports. One boy was found farther out from shore and brought back in alive; it took about 30 minutes for searchers to find Tuvell, who was rushed to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead. The lawsuit alleges that the defendants failed to ensure the boy was properly equipped, dressed and weighted. It states that they provided defective equipment and did not manage, monitor or supervise the boys air supply. When the emergency situation arose, the parties failed to aid and properly rescue Tuvell, the lawsuit alleges. "Defendant Corbett Douglas and other defendants failed to prepare and implement an adequate dive plan," the lawsuit states. The parents claim all the defendants were negligent, strictly liable and failed to warn of the dangers posed by being part of the diving program. The Tuvells seek an unspecified amount in punitive and compensatory damages. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54315249-78/lawsuit-diving-lake-defendants.html.csp

Some of my Scouts took Shotgun Merit Badge every year. The Scoutlike thing to do is sign up for the class, so if it fills up they will offer more classes. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

If you want something done, ask a busy man.

Why do you need an SPL?

Shortridge, Bear Grylls. Nothing says our next "Green Bar Bill" must be from Denmark.

Our Boy Scout program is a job skills program with an outdoor-lite theme. So a guy like Mike Rowe who tries different jobs like an American Boy Scout tries different Merit Badges, is a perfect match. ANY celebrity will do, however, so long as he is popular enough to convince indoor American boys that schoolwork Merit Badges and florescent lights "leadership" theory is actually really kewl! Baden-Powell's Scouting was based on using Scout skills to navigate through Physical Distance: A series of Journeys and Expeditions of increasing difficulty at every rank, through rugged backwoods territory. So "Bear" Grylls, whose every program is a journey through significant backwoods territory, is a perfect role model for Scouting associations that gear their outdoor program to be a challenge for rugged outdoor teenagers. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

SeattlePioneer writes: "We really do need more adventure as part of the program ... Are we letting too much junk get in the way of that, which seems to be the main point of Kudu's objections as I understand them? If so, what junk, and what should be disposed of? Kudu has a list." Yes, Seattle, I do have a list. I had intended to post it to this thread, one point at a time... ...but the whole point of Baden-Powell's Journey and Expedition requirements (followed ---in the BSA-- by Hillcourt's "Real" Patrols) is that they are (as you write) the best experience in Scouting ... when a Scout actually NEEDS to USE those Scout skills. However, we hand out Eagle Scout badges to boys who have never walked into the woods with a pack on their backs. In other words we want to make isolated running, kicking, throwing, and catching skills more meaningful, as we continue to hand out Heisman Trophies to boys who have never walked onto a 300 foot playing field with a jersey on their backs. Restore B-P's Journey and Expedition requirements to every rank past Second Class (plus a Patrol Method based on 300 feet and Patrol Hikes without "Adult Association"), and my list of impracticable "junk to be disposed of" will be obvious to everyone. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

Horizon writes: "Has anyone tried implementing a Republic? Each Patrol gets one vote for SPL..." Yes, Hillcourt's "Real" Patrol Method was republican during the BSA's height of popularity (late 1920s to 1972). Troop popularity contests were introduced in 1972 when we replaced Hillcourt's PATROL Leader Training with Bla Bnthy's TROOP Leader Training. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

As King, I would rank my changes in order of importance: 1. Journeys and Expeditions to Replace Scoutmaster Conferences and Boards of Review. On this issue I part company with even the most radical "Back to Basics" advocates. In the rest of the world, Baden-Powell's Scouting is a game. In common with other popular outdoor games, competency is tested by progress over a Physical Distance: First Class = 14 miles, the equivalent to "Star" = 2 day + 1 night Expedition, "Life" = 20 miles, "Eagle" = 50 miles (200 by horseback). Adult Guide to the Fourteen (14) Mile First Class Journey: http://inquiry.net/outdoor/hikes/1st_class_hike.htm Likewise B-P's minimum requirements for the Patrol System measure competency in terms of Physical Distance: Monthly Patrol Hikes, and camping your Patrols 300 feet apart. Why 300 feet? If Congress will extend our monopoly to include football and soccer, we can also eliminate the 300 feet between end zones: Just do to sports what we did to Scouting: Break the game down into individual "First Year Skills," and sign them off in a week of summer camp (with no re-testing). These signed off skills (running, kicking, throwing, catching) will never actually be used in a game, but understood as isolated skills. In the place of a game, skills are then "reviewed" while sitting indoors in a Coach Conference, followed by job interview practice called a Board of Review. All of the ideas in this thread so far ("mastery" of skills, sequential ranks, Scouts on BoRs, Mike Rowe, 1st Class in two years) are still in the box that protects boys who hate camping from ever actually applying their outdoor skills against the controlled risk that made Baden-Powell's program popular. Adventure: To test your skills at every rank against a series of Journeys and Expeditions of increasing difficulty. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

"I know that adults can't influence the vote..." That assumption is the source of your problem. If "Leadership Development" does to BSA Lifeguard what it did to SPL (makes it a Position of "Responsibility" selected by Troop elections) will you hesitate to "influence the vote" when your non-swimmers fling paper plates into the crowd to get elected? "why do you need an SPL? Try going without one for a while. Put the PLs at the head of things, where they should be. See how it works." Barely a half-hour had passed when Eagledad swooped in to discourage you from using Baden-Powell's "whole new" solution: Simply eliminate the SPL position if it does not work. In Baden-Powell's Patrol System, mature Patrol Leaders can run a Troop of up to thirty-two (32) Scouts without an SPL. This is not your fault, Astrospartian. Missing from Eagledad's treasured "program that provides plenty of training and manuals that can guide how to direct the troop," is any mention of the very first thing that Boy Scout volunteers should be taught: Baden-Powell's Minimum Standard for his "Patrol System:" (Monthly Patrol Hikes without "Adult Association," and Patrols camped 300 feet apart); and William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's Minimum Standard for a "Real" Patrol: (Monthly Patrol Hikes without "Adult Association," with the goal of extended Patrol Hikes called "Patrol Overnights"). This definition of leadership in terms of Physical Distance from "Adult Association" is what both Baden-Powell and Hillcourt meant by giving Patrol Leaders "Real Responsibility" over their Patrols: Trust and controlled risk on the order of what we expect from BSA Lifeguards ("Trust but Verify"). Many Wood Badge courses still camp their Patrols Baden-Powell's 300 feet apart, and include a Patrol Hike free from "Adult Association" (the Staffers). My guess is that if you examine the Troops of Wood Badge's true believers in this thread (those who ascribe to "21st century leadership skills," all of the credit for their success), you will find that the maturity of their Scouts is grounded in peak experiences that involve some aspect of Physical Distance from "Adult Association." Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

The Scout participated with his family in an FOS presentation.

BDPT00 writes: "I don't see any logic to a Cub wearing a Wood Badge staff patch...I'm sure somebody will have a dandy reason why it's a good idea." That's easy. Test 1,000 Wood Badge Staffers and 1,000 Cub Scouts, "True or False" on Baden-Powell's minimum standards for Patrol System. The Cub Scouts will do better because their idea of fun is closer to B-P's, than office theory experts for the 21st century. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

In fairness to the family, you should inform them of the regulations that Trevorum and Jeffrey H have so far failed to mention: If an FOS patch is not worn on the uniform of a registered member of the BSA, it must be stored in an archival medium with "a pH of 8.5, at a temperature no higher than 70F, and a stable relative humidity between a minimum of 30% and a maximum of 50%. Visible light levels must not exceed 165 lux (15 footcandles) ... [otherwise the patch must be] ... destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning." This CSP is an advertisement for Friends of Scouting. Where do you suppose the Council wants it: Worn proudly by a contributing family member, or at home in archival storage? Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net

Do I understand this thread correctly? A Scout's parents made a contribution to FOS and gave him the patch, and you want to take it away from him? And we wonder why they leave...

desertrat77: No. Maybe you are thinking that the "chain of command" is SM --> SPL --> PL? In GBB's "Real" Patrol Method, the Patrol Leaders hire and fire the SPL, so the "chain of command" is PL --> SPL. Whenever I hear an adult identify his Troop's most talented leaders to be SPL + ASPL + ASPL, + TG, 9 times out of 10 that adult does not allow his Patrol Leaders to conduct significant Patrol Hikes without "adult association," or even camp 300 feet apart. The point I'm making to Basementdweller is: Put his energy into getting his Troop's outdoorsmen out on the backwoods trails and waterways, where the real outdoor leaders are. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu

OK, Basementdweller, so let's review: You are now disenchanted with three things that have nothing to do with Scouting as Baden-Powell and Green Bar Bill understood it: 1) SPL: a) Elected by the whole Troop, b) every six months, c) to boss the Patrol Leaders around; and d) appoint ASPLs to, e) boss the other PORs around, and f) boss the Patrol Leaders around in the SPL's absence; and g) appoint Troop Guides to take the Patrol Leaders' primary job away from them, and h) vote with the SPL and his appointed ASPLs to, i) boss the Patrol Leaders around in the PLC. 2) NYLT: Office management theory for kids (see a-i, above). 3) Summer Camp: a) anti-Patrol Method, b) Merit Badge summer school. "How do you find balance?" Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. Accept that "Modern Scouting's" anti-"Real" Patrol Method is here to stay, but put your time and energy into promoting the Traditional Scouting programs in your Troop: Backpacking and Canoe. Create a Troop sub-culture of outdoorsmen whose great Scouting passion is to camp out of a backpack or canoe. Because: Boy Scouts who long to cover eight miles a day with a pack on their backs or a paddle in their hands, live the Scout Law differently than those who don't. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu http://kudu.net (This message has been edited by Kudu)

qwazse writes: "Or did you do make up the slip on your own after they settled on the calendar and a rough plan?" Yes, the permission slips were based on the PLC's annual planning session in August. I did them on my own: Just standard boiler-plate stuff that only took a couple of minutes to cut and paste from the Troop Website. We did not waste leadership talent on a "full-time" SPL, because we needed our best Natural Leaders for Patrol Hikes, and camping 300 feet apart. Usually the most "senior" (mature) of the Patrol Leaders would attend Committee meetings with me, and maybe call for reservations and fill out tour permits, but getting teenagers to jump through paper hoops depends on the personalities of a Troop's Patrol Leaders at any given time. Some 15yos are as good at such office skills as adults, some gifted outdoor leaders could not care less. Some are good at both: The missing brothers' Patrol camped out almost every Friday night, but the Patrol Leader also liked leadership theory. As for our Brewmeister's question: Organized Scouts who hand in their Permission Slips early, will nail down the available rides first. Tampa: If that excludes the Senior Patrol Leader and all his ASPLs, then good riddance! If it excludes a Patrol Leader, then maybe he is not very organized (After I added the request for transportation details, we always had enough seats). qwazse writes: "So, I figure how you and other SM's would involve their SPL in the process would parallel how I should be involving crew VPs." Remember that in Baden-Powell's Patrol System, the Patrol Leaders' primary responsibility is leading Patrol Hikes without "adult association." You might want to read John Thurman's "fly on the wall" PLC meeting where the Patrol Leaders report on their individual Patrol Hikes and outline their ideas for the next Troop campout, but actually delegate the creative and logistic details of the Troop campout to the adult leaders: http://inquiry.net/patrol/court_honor/coh_session.htm Yours at 300 feet, Kudu