KC9DDI

I'm having a difficult time locating Chapter 10 of Title 36 in the most recent US Code? (http://uscode.house.gov/download/title_10.shtml)

What I do know is that taking your hat off during the national anthem is not a tradition, it is a federal law Which federal law is that?

Yup, that many slides is entirely too many. I think giving a presentation of that length will cause the trainees to believe that a BOR is much more complicated than it actually is. I'd say keep it to 10 slides MAX - break it down into Goals of the BOR, Concrete methods used to reach those goals, and maybe address some specific "myths" or poor practices that may be common in your area. Devote no more than 3 or 4 slides to each topic. If there's more detailed or wordy information you want to convey, you can put it in a handout - but even then, try to keep that handout to less than 2 double-s

Merit badges are part of the program, and there's nothing wrong with being aware of how they can tie in to the larger troop program. But it's not clear whether the ENTIRE program they developed revolves around MBs (eg, troop meetings to work on MBs, campouts primarily to work on MBs), or if their just thinking of how certain MBs can tie in to program ideas. If it's the first case, it wouldn't be wrong to guide them towards developing a quality troop program which will ENABLE them to work on certain MB requirements, while also not degrading the other methods and goals of the MB program.

It sounds like the family in question, while understandably upset, might not really understand the way individual BSA units operate, in relation to other units and to the district. Basically, that the two packs' treasuries aren't connected. They don't understand why the other pack is 'getting away with this.' Do what you can to help them understand. But also offer to help - perhaps contacting the CM, CC, or UC for the other unit yourself might help resolve the situation?

moose - OK, I think I'm getting there. Part of my confusion stems from the fact that your definitions of "God vs god" aren't consistent with any other definition that I've ever heard, religious or secular. I'm also not positive that it's consistent with Skeptic's definition, though I think his explanation is a bit more consistent with what I've heard in other settings. I get the notion that the BSA doesn't necessarily mean the "Catholic God" or the "Jewish God" when they use the word "God" in the DRP and other texts. So I think there's clearer ways to make that distinction other than relyi

and it would then also not bar the atheist who could understand the difference between God vs god Moose - I'm generally agreeing with what you're saying, but... I'm a Christian and I still have no idea what you mean regarding the "God vs god" issue. Could you try to clarify it for me? Preferably without attaching non-standard meanings to capitalization?

Not to speak for Merlyn, but those who aren't Scouters because they cannot be Scouters because of their (lack of) religious views are very much affected by the BSA's prohibition. Your problem, and many others', is that somehow God, and god have become confused. A God is a specific entity in which someone believes, something greater than self, normally a spiritual idea with certain higher power perhaps, or not; while gods are generic. I honestly can't figure out what you mean here. "entity in which someone believes", "greater than self", "normally a spiritual idea"... all of those te

I've found that most self-identified atheists have only rarely studied science and philosophy. Instead, there's a watery, generic "public atheism" which is intellectually insubstantial but, for some, emotionally gratifying. I've found that most self-identified Christians have only rarely studied science and philosophy and religion and history. Instead, there's a watery, generic "public Christianity" which is intellectually insubstantial but, for some, emotionally gratifying.

E61 - I think there's probably a lot of truth to what you say about SMs viewing the OA as one more time drain to an already overbooked youth and adult membership base. But I wonder what you mean about the OA "giving back" to the troops? Not disagreeing with you, but just curious about how you would like to see the OA work more with individual units?

Hmmm... I'm not sure that anyone ever said that "NS Leaders" were ever a problem for the program. I suppose that having been a Scout in a decent troop as a youth might be an advantage when it comes to one or two particular areas of our program, such as the patrol method - but I don't think that not having a Scouting background is a problem in general. Too much depends on the individual personality. A former Scout might bring with them a strong understanding and commitment to the program, including youth leadership and the patrol method. But that same person might also bring a resistanc

So clothing that's comfortable in warm weather isn't so comfortable in cold weather?

I've seen two general approaches that work well: 1) Have a party or event some time in December. Call it a holiday/Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanzaa/Winter Solstice party - whatever is going to offend the fewest number of people. Allow individual families to bring food, activities, or show-n-tell items that represent their own traditions, and share with the group. 2) (My favorite): Leave the religious holidays to families and churches. Instead, in Scouting, celebrate American holidays. For example, have a "Thanksgiving feast" some time in November, Memorial Day or Labor Day picnics, 4th

There's a couple of different categories here: First, you have just generally picky eaters. No medical or religious or any kind of reason for being a picky eater - they just don't like certain food. At a Boy Scout level, this is a perfect problem for the patrol to tackle themselves when planning their menu. Either they come up with meals everyone can enjoy, or they come up with separate meals. Second, you have Scouts with legitimate dietary needs based on medical or religious reasons. The people needing gluten-free meals, vegetarian meals, mild to moderate food allergies, or reli

goes more to the perception that OA is an optional part of Scouting Well, that's not a perception, that's reality. I know that among many Scouters, and in many Scouting circles, the OA has earned itself a rather negative reputation. I don't want to get into whether or not that reputation is justified, but it certainly does "turn off" many troops to inviting OA representatives to speak to their youth members. I personally take a rather dim view towards the OA, due to a number of encounters with them. However, I do get frustrated when Scoutmasters deliberately deny their Scouts

I see what you're saying, Beavah. But I'm not here trying to defend specific examples of age-based restrictions - rather I'm arguing that it is acceptable to have age-based restrictions at all. That, I believe, is why you're accusing me of prejudice. There certainly is some inconsistency beyond age-based restrictions applied by different groups regarding different activities - but that's a separate issue from whether or not there's any legitimacy to use age as a consideration in general. And, by nature, some of the age restrictions will be arbitrary - why does Boy Scouts start at age 10.5,

OGE - Right, that's the part of the argument the Beavah and those in his camp never respond to. Why is discrimination based on age acceptable in some cases, but not others? A distraction by comparing it to racial prejudice is just an emotional appeal, a logical fallacy, and hardly worth getting frustrated over. An explanation of "you're not old enough to remember/understand" is a cop out at best. Justification for basing decisions partly on a person's age is similar to racial prejudice only in that the general argument in both cases takes the form of "You can't do X because of Y." Tha

Scouting is a big place. Offering optional, supplemental leadership development courses is not a bad thing for the program. It gets to be a bad thing when we use leadership courses in place of actual opportunities to practice real leadership. I happen to think NYLT is, in general, a fairly decent program that can be used to build and develop leadership skills. At a higher level, I do believe that leadership techniques can be taught, developed and refined. And Scouting is not a bad place for that to happen. What bothers me is when we spend all this time and energy providing leader

I think Beavah likes to toss around terms like "prejudice" and "discrimination" just for the shock value, without really understanding what they mean, and how they apply to the point at hand. Or maybe he does understand their meaning, but just prefers to make an emotional attack, rather than a rational one. Age is a reasonably reliable indicator of various developmental and personality traits and maturity. No, it's not 100% accurate for each and every one of the 7 billion people on the planet, but it's a reliable enough indicator that it's used extensively throughout medicine, the law,

Beav - a couple posts back, didn't you opine: Da council staff are typically young folk, don't know the boys or families, and they usually don't know as much about an activity as a competent adult hobbyist. So... is the supposed youth of the council instructors a problem or not?

The Three Fires Council operates Camp Freeland Leslie in Oxford, WI, which is about 45 minutes north of Cascade Mountain. They do offer a cabin for camping. But it's a very popular base for Scouts to use while visiting some of the Dells attractions, including Cascade Mountain, so it too may be booked through the winter. But maybe worth a try.

Hmmm... So I went back and re-read this thread, and what strikes me the most is the small amount of information we have on this situation. Based on what the OP posted, we know that 1) Scouts who participated in a certain service project are invited to a Christmas party, and 2) The troop committee provided the party's meeting space. Unless I missed something, it would seem that we don't even know for sure if this is in fact a "troop" event (maybe it's the Salvation Army or a private individual offering to host the party, and the troop just offered a "donation" to cover the party space).

In my area: Scout shops do keep "unit accounts." Statements are sent yearly, but can also be printed at any time upon request. The unit may give the council permission to deposit/withdraw funds to cover registration discrepancies. AFAIK, it's only used for registration purposes, and the transactions are rarely more than a few dollars. If the unit does not expressly give permission, the council can't touch the money. The unit can provide a list of up to 3 or 4 people who are authorized to make purchases using the account. Most "problems" that develop involve either an aut

All of the ideas you mention warrant some investigation. How much are your troop dues, and what do they cover? What other expenses that aren't charged by the troop are of concern (eg, does the Scout need camping gear, a uniform, etc?) Many councils do have campership programs, but they are typically operated on a per-event basis (eg, camperships for summer camp, training courses, etc - rather than just a general year-round fund). This might be an option for getting the Scout to summer camp, if nothing else. Asking for participation in fundraising is usually a good idea in

Thunder - Why not? I don't see what's wrong with offering a polite explanation, followed by a polite request. If the parent doesn't want to do what you're asking them to do, you can't force the issue beyond that. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with providing information about our program, our goals and our preferences. Dennis - how exactly is that intimidation? What am I going to "intimidate" them WITH? The conversation should, of course, occur politely and courteously. Don't schools do this all the time by discouraging parents from sitting in the classroom with their chil