John-in-KC

I agree wholeheartedly with Fred Goodwin and Eamonn!!! Mr/Ms Robbyynn, please, go online and take: Fast Start Training for Cub Scouting Youth Protection Training Through your District or online, take New Leader Essentials. Through your District or Council, take Position Specific Training for Cub Scouting (Pack Committee option). Now, as far as organization goes: Some agency (church, club, business) licenses Scouting from the Local Council to be run in your area. That agency is called the Chartered Partner. They are your "First line supervisor," as they, not you, OWN THE LICENSE! Your role, as the Pack Committee Chair, is to implement Cub Scouting on their behalf, by being the support side manager of the Pack. You are hired and/or fired (hopefully not) by the Chartered Partner, in the persons of the Executive Officer (another term: Institutional Head) and his day to day Scouting person, the Chartered Organization Representative. You are responsible for the operations of: - Treasurer - Advancement and Membership Coordinator - Newsletter Coordinator - Transportation Coordinator - Pack Trainer (some units make this part of the CM's job description) - Any other jobs which need to be done people. (Hint: Many hands make the work more bite size and help convince more parents to help!) Your peer on the program side is the Cubmaster. He, like you, is hired and fired by the Chartered Partner, through the Exec. Officer (IH) and the COR. The Cubmaster is responsible FOR THE PROGRAM of the Pack. Normally Usually Generally Most of the Time that means the monthly Pack meetings, Day Camp, and and pack-wide Family Overnights. Reporting to the Cubmaster are the Den Leaders. They are the first line program delivery people, meeting with the boys week in/week out throughout the school year, and at selected activities throughout the summer. Don't forget parents in Cub Scouting: Through the Bear year, parents are the ones who should be doing much of the signing off on the Advancement Plan. BTW: Den Chiefs are Boy Scouts or Venturers who provide support and assistance to the DEN LEADERS. Do not confuse these young men by making them responsible to multiple people. They serve the Den, are responsible to the Den Leader, and accountable back to their Scoutmasters. Come to think of it, that's another training you should attend: Den Chiefs! You want to know what kind of resource they can be, and you want your Den Leaders to get the most out of them. In a perfect world, even an experienced DL will take the time to attend Den Chief Training with his Den Chief, to help the two of them become one leadership team. BTW, welcome to the campfire!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

As LisaBob (and others) said, CHECK WITH YOUR COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT before planning a food based fundraiser. If there are two counties in the Nation which have identical procedures for non-profit fundraiser dinners (or B/G banquets for that matter), I will be amazed. Also, remember that there are limits on the number of fundraisers a Pack/Troop/Team/Crew may have in a year. Your DE, Council Business Manager, or SE will be able to give you that information and cite its source. Finally, fundraisers other than popcorn ideally should have council pre-approval. There is a form, similar to the Tour Permit. It serves the same purpose as the Tour Permit: Make sure you've done your planning.

I agree with Beavah. This is something which you need your Council's Executive Board accountant or attorney to give advice on. Hopefully, the Professional Staff already has these fact sheets on the shelf. What is correct procedure for you in Washington State won't hold water in Missouri. We had a huge conundrum last spring. Our Council lets Supply Corporation lease space for a National Scout Store. Council got a letter from State Department of Revenue which said "Tax Exemptions for the Licensing Body may NOT be used by derivative bodies (ie Boy Scout and GSUSA units). Our neighboring Council, which runs its own Scout Shop, and which has its own tax exempt ID, did not get one of these. While Council, the State General Assembly (yes, our Executive Board got area legislators (who in many cases are also Scouters) into the act), and the State Department of Revenue went through the Kabuki Theater of "who is entitled," as a COR, I gave a simple instruction to the units under Charter: Go to the neighboring Council Service Center and use their Scout Shop. Ironically, for us the neighboring Council shop is closer than our own Service Center!

Csnider, Let's start with some info off the National Website: What is Venturing? http://www.scouting.org/venturing/about/venturing.html Good synopsis of the program. About Venturing: http://www.scouting.org/venturing/about/index.html Program Support: http://www.scouting.org/venturing/support/index.html Venturing is designed to allow young men and women to drill into interest areas. It has some G2SS latitude which Boy Scouting doesn't, and it gives the youth increasing independence in program design, development, and execution. I know a Crew which supports one of our Council Camps with youth staff. I know another Crew which does HS theater and music. I know still a third Crew which specializes in advising the Life Scout on his trail to Eagle. Crew21_Adv and emb021 are two superb folk for the Venturing program amongst us. Eamonn has a particular focus, he is a Sea Scout Ships' Skipper. (Sea Scouting, while the elder program, is now supervised by the Venturing Division of BSA). BTW, my son finished his Eagle in the Crew. The BSA Advancement policy is: Once you are First Class, you may continue to Eagle in a Crew, without being registered in a Troop.

Woodbadge.org is a wonderful resource. Here is the Numbering System for the Western Region: Course numbering scheme for the Western Region is as follows: The first part tells what kind of course it is: W is a week-long course WV is a week-long Varsity course WE is a weekend course WVE is a weekend Varsity course The next character tells what Area of the Region is sponsoring the course: 1-5, M indicates the Areas # or M for Metro The second part is the council number sponsoring the course: -62- is Longs Peak Council The third part is optional and used only if the council is sponsoring more than one course. -1 The final part is the year of the course, thus -98. -99(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

First, what does the PLC want? Shouldn't the Troop Committee (which has responsibility for COHs) defer somewhat to the desires of the youth? That said, I tend to wonder why we feed them lots of sugar as bedtime approaches. Home-made things are really the best. Kids don't get enough of them. The Troop of my youth took time to have pot-lucks, earlier in the evening, with family fellowship as well as awards. Kids love fried chicken ... and my Mom made the best fried chicken EVER!

Brian, I find myself in agreement with others here. We cannot get meaningful information from you, even when we are willing to share. The concept of a forum is exchange and dialogue, not challenge and then go on the ropes. Easily enough dealt with. You have entered my ignore list. Good bye.

There is another issue we are battling in our local Council. Some of us who are Scouters for Boy Scouting forget how important Cub Scouting is to the overall movement. We must invest and re-invest in the seed corn of our Dens and Packs. One challenge of that is the "Baby Sitters of America" movement, where Mom and Dad want a dropoff/pickup/attend the award day program.

Barry, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Worse, in many of those other activities, there is equal demand for parental time! Here's my own boys life: Monday: Secular choir with his mom's new husband. Well, there went the Troop meeting. Tuesday: Venturing Crew meeting, unless there is HS band concert. Well, there went last night in particular (and about 12 nights a school year, since pep band is graded). Wednesday: Instrument lesson and during Holy Seasons, church. Thursday: Church choir, though this can be pre-empted for other rehearsals and occasionally District RT. Friday: Football game night in the fall (5 home games for the band). Granted, he's a HS junior, who is starting on his learners permit. BTW, as a band parent, I see the same thing as Scouting: 85% of the parents do the "drop-off," less than 15% do meaningful support. I think too many parents have forgotten a simple fact: The role God gave us in life is to prepare the next generation to take our station.

Lisa, There are items in my ticket I had to share. Our friendly SMART acronym: Measurable. At least three ticket items required external subjective judgment of the work I did for the item. As far as would I share my items, as ideas for others? Yes, but only if asked. I think the discovery learning of developing and working the ticket, now that I've been through it, almost mandates there not be a "good idea bank." The Scouter needs to be able to assess the needs of himself, his unit, and the "greater good" he works in. Would I (and have I) share the FORMAT I used to communicate my ticket items to my TG? Heck, yes. Does this help? John I used to be an Owl C-40-05

The other, implied part of the requirement is INSTRUCTION. The Scout left to his own devices and simply trying to hang from the bar may not get anywhere. Some coaching, guidance, mentorship ... hints on things that add upper body strength... Adult Association... Personal Growth... the Methods of Scouting! Bottom line, Beavah: Each young man who walks with us must be treated as an individual, especially on things that are individual and subjective in nature. If show improvement is not subjective phrasing, I do not know what is!

Brian, If you PM me, you will get my email. Since I have several spam-laden accounts, I rarely post it publicly anymore, even munged. As far as Scouting duties go, I am the Physical Arrangements RT staffer for my District RT, coordinate some classes, give some classes, counsel the several Citizenship MBs +railroading +Computers (I have other intersts, but those are my active badges), counsel through the Protestant sub-committee of the Religious Relationships Committee the God and Country awards, serve as an AA to a Crew, and am the proud father of an Eagle with his first bronze palm. Since you see us revealing our names, sir, yours please? Gonzo: Email sent. John Perkowski Owl Patrol C-40-05 Working my ticket as I can...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Gee, Crew21_Adv, how did you know my answer was going to be: "What do the Venturing Crew youth desire?" Not every Venturing Crew is about camping and the outdoors. You're bringing kids together with multiple interests. I know one District all-nighter that was nothing more than movies, popcorn, card games and talk. Guess what? They ate it up! We're supposed to be giving them increased rein for their own decisionmaking. Why don't we Scouters do what we are supposed to?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Hmmmm.... BSA Requirements (33215F) for 2006: Tenderfoot: Requirement 7: Repeat from memory and explain in your own words the Scout Oath, Law, motto, and slogan. Requirement 8: Know your patrol name, give the patrol yell, and describe your patrol flag. Requirement 13: Demonstrate scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Second Class: Requirement 9: Demonstrate scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. First Class: Requirement 10: Demonstrate scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Star: Requirement 2: Demonstrate scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Life: Requirement 2: Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Eagle: Requirement 2: Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. This isn't about Plebe Knowledge at the US Military Academy!!! "How is the cow?" "Sir, she walks, she talks, she's full of chalk, the lacteal fluid extracted from the female of the bovine species is highly prolific to the nth degree." This is about meeting the Character Development AIM of Scouting using the Methods of: Advancement Associations With Adults Personal Growth Leadership Development Scout spirit, as set in the requirements, supports especially Personal Growth and Leadership Development. We are teaching, at no less than the analytical level of knowledge, black and white values and mores. We evaluate their growth by seeking the deeper and the substantive, not mere memorization. "To do my duty ... and my Country" for a 13 year old may as simple as picking up litter in a Troop service project. For an 18 year old venturer or transitioning adult, it means registering for the draft and to vote! (Post Scriptum: I omitted "to God" for the sake of this particular example only. There's a missive about Scout Spirit in the life of the Church that's waiting to be written!). I don't usually like to refer to doctrine Mother Army wrote when discussing issues of Scouting. This time I shall. I remember my first paper for Senior Leadership at the Command and General Staff Officer Course after earning my scrambled eggs. I had to write on the attributes of a senior leader (standard bearer, developer, and integrator) as defined in FM 22-103 (1987). As I recall, my argument was the developmental and integration atrributes of a senior leader's vision were vital to the future, for our job was to raise up the generation behind us. Contrast those two with the atribute of standard bearer, which was to maintain the organization in the here and now. Our legacy as Scouters is not maintenance of traditions. Traditions are tools in the toolbox, no more, no less. Our legacies are the quality young men and women who step out of Scouting and into adulthood. Of course, I am just a simple Artilleryman.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Paging our Mods... Brianbuf double posted his question. I'll let y'all decide which thread to lock up John-in-KC who Mods a forum somewhere else in cyberspace

I agree with and endorse LisaBob's comments on this! I disagree that accounting the $5,000 entirely to Wood Badge is a valid and trustworthy way of accounting for your earnings! Sir, you chose to take your family someplace. For your bride and children, it was an educational experience, and perhaps a vacation experience. FOR THEM: Was is a Scouting experience? If so, how? Your own travel and expenses? Maybe. Even then, what Lisa said applies. Diversity is a word full of current connotational BUZZ. Could you have done something which expanded your horizons, had you see different ways of working, playing, and serving without a $5,000 trip? Only you can answer that last question. Finally, I note it has been 3 months and 6 days since your first post to this forum. When did your coursework in WB end? It seems to me you may be flirting with the "six-months-minimum" rule my TG gave me (didn't need to worry, it basically took me a full year to work the first Ticket of the rest of my life... ) May you serve youth well and truly as a Scouter.

Firecrafter, This is, as you properly believe, an issue for your COR and IH. Get them in the loop immediately. If your Chartered Partner is a non-profit, there is probably an officer there who is their Treasurer. Ask for an oversight review of procedures and the books. When it's done, ask the IH for feedback (it's a gift! ) on procedures to be sustained and those to be improved. If the IH finds the finance system of the Troop acceptable, let him say so, and then invite those with complaints to see the COR after seeing the CC. If there is a clean bill of health, the CC needs to take the parent aside and say "desist." If you do not, there will be consequences. If the parent continues, and if the parent is question is a Scouter, one possible solution is that the IH says to Council: "I find Billybob Jumpback no longer suitable to be a Scouter with units of MyServiceCluborChurch. Please do not recharter him in Pxxxx, Txxxx, or Cxxxx." As a very last resort, recommend to the parent that their son may find another Troop more to the Parents' liking.

Eamonn, my friend, Look first and foremost at who you are and who you have been in your Council. Look also at the connotations of what was said: "He said that was different that they were told that they had to be in uniform. "I told him that wasn't what they were told. "I had told them and their parents that all Scouts attending the Jamboree were expected to be in full uniform." (Emphasis added). You and I are of similar ages, probably. Our Eagles are I believe no more than a year or two apart. Eamonn, when you speak, who YOU are places a context message into the words you say. I can see where a 13-16 year old and his parents, having heard what Mr E said, processed it as "I have to have uniforms for this, he told me so."

Baden, Do I not recall that the Scoutmaster's Handbook or some other piece of BSA literature says a Scoutmaster is one of those "one and only one jobs" in Scouting? You might try reminding them of that. The other part is just keep saying No. Courteous and Kind, but No.

If the death happens during a Tour Permitted Scouting activity, or happens at a Scout Camp, not only is there an etiquette protocol, there is a PROCEDURAL PROTOCOL. The SE needs to be notified, and the unit can expect an investigation of facts and circumstances. SE notification begins by notifying the responsible Professional, be he a Ranger, a Reservation Director, or a DE. The issues involve the liability insurance. This is at least how I've been trained through my Council Campmaster Corps.

Backwood, Before the sun sets again, contact your District Advancement Chairman. From some of the things you have described in your posts, all your Troop is doing is GUARANTEEING the National Advancement Committee will over-ride your decisions on appeal. If you truly think this young man is not worthy of Eagle, he's the man to see. Listen to Lisabob, Beavah, and Eamonn here. They have sage advice!

BrentAllen, I congratulate your District and Council for letting the volunteers buy into the FOS numbers. Would that happen in every Council; FOS would be something better thought of. As it is, the Family FOS Campaign in my neck of the woods is "Professional Grade."

A couple of years ago the FOS family spiel including discussing a Harris survey, done for the National Council. As I understand it, the $ figure actually is fed downhill from Council.

The number in our Council is $130 now, more or less. Our unit target is defined by 25% of the chartered youth x $130, or last years number, whichever is bigger. If the unit meets the target, Council funds basic advancement patches (Tiger, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Webelo, Scout, TF, 2C, 1C, Star, and Life) for the remainder of the calendar year from the day the unit meets the target. The Family FOS campaign has about 1/4 of our Councils' FOS target; the rest comes from the Community (business) campaign.

I know of several businesses in my District who charter Packs, Troops and Crews. The issue is simple: Is the potential Chartered Partner willing to live up to its side of the Charter Agreement? - Facilities - Leader Selection - Commitment to youth service in general and the Scouting Program in particular - OWNERSHIP of the unit, for that is what the Charter is: A granting of a license to use the Scouting program. Downstream, if the IH or COR instruct the Committee to "do X," as long as X is inside the bounds of G2SS, Advancement Policy, uniform policy, the Committee (and for that matter, the PLC) does not get a vote. So ... be careful of what you ask for; it can be a two edged sword As long as the local Council buys in, then the business can be a chartered partner. The best persons to ask are your District or Council Commissioners.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)