John-in-KC

Given what you've said, the best thing I can recommend is send some of the interested young men to your Council's National Youth Leader Training (sometimes called Brownsea) course. That will start giving them the skillsets to make a difference being youth leaders.

Yes, a youth can co-charter in a Troop and a Crew. Yes, you would have to set Venturing events up as Venturing events, not as Troop events. Understand, though, there are differences in program delivery between Boy Scouting and Venturing. Patrols are not a method of Venturing. Advancement is not a method of Venturing, though Recognition is. Uniform is not a method of Venturing. Further, the young people are given increasing independence and some of the planning and coordination by Committee in Boy Scouting is done by the youth members in Venturing. You might want to contact your District Commissioner and ask to have a cup of coffee with the UC who has Venturing in his portfolio... or ask who the go-to person is in your Council for Venturing. You might also consider Venturing Fast Start at the MyScouting site.

Anonymous, Thank you for the update. I still recommend a quiet, mature, exit visit with the IH of the Chartered Partner. IMO, they deserve to know why their Troop is about to have a membership drain. As for the new Troop, let your son do the shopping. I'd actually recommend against signing on as an ASM anywhere you go initially. There'll be enough attempts to backstab you as is.

OK, gentlemen, I challenge you... How does the Cubmaster, as the leader of matters program in a Pack, understand truly the array of needs of his/her direct contact program leaders if he's not at least been through their training? My belief comes from the old adage of walking a mile in the other mans' shoes... I will, however, glady grant I'm identifying the "in a perfect world" situation. When was the last time any of us saw that perfect world. BTW, Barry: 1 Hour a Week? I thought it was 168 minus another hour a week YIS, ICS, KISMIF! , John

A Venture Patrol has a youth program member age limit of 18 and is within the auspices of the Boy Scout Program Division of BSA. No women can be allowed to enter the youth program. A Venturing Crew has a youth program age limit of 21 and is under the auspices of the Venturing Division, BSA. The Venturing program allows (at local option of the Crew and the Chartered Partner) women to enter the youth program. The only advantage I see of having a Troop with a Venture Patrol and an internal (though separately chartered) Venturing Crew is that a late arrival to Boy Scouting can work S-T-2-1 inside a Venture Patrol before pressing on to Eagle. By ACP&P #33088, a male Venturer must be First Class when he arrives in the Crew, if he desiers to continue to work towards Eagle before his 18th birthday within the Crew. Of operational disadvantage, by G2SS, a 16-18 year old Boy Scout member of a Venture Patrol may not be a driver, with exceptions of area, Regional, and National Scouting events (and with certain personal conditions met. As written, this includes Troop meetings and unit campouts. A 16-Venturer in a Venturing Crew may drive himself (with certain conditions met) to unit meetings and outings, as well as District, Council, and higher events. A further operational disadvantage, by G2SS, is that a Boy Scout in a Venture Patrol may not train on or use a handgun. A Venturer in a Venturing Crew is explicitly authorized to train on and use handguns as part of the program.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

artjrk, welcome to the Forums... You said... "We lead by example. So by wearing our Geezer Patrol patch on our sleeve we are just showing a little Patrol Spirit, just like we ask our boys to do." Only one problem. There's a prohibition in the Uniform Guide about adults wearing articles of the uniform designated for the youth program. Patrols (vice the Method) are for the youth. We should not wear Patrol patches. Period. I may be a Uniform Libertine, but this is one place where I am to the right of being card-carrying Uniform Police. It's great, and I laud you, to model the Method. That doesn't mean we ape the procedures.

I'd say about the time of her 14th birthday, which is as they school year is hitting its high points before year-end, is a good target for her.

You didn't mention where she was in terms of finishing 8th grade. I'd let that be the trigger. I believe also there is a 15 and no grade option as well (emb021, can you validate??)... I'd let her see the various Crews now. Get her ready. Advancement is not a Method of Venturing. Recognition is. The awards are more focused than the ranks of Boy Scouting, and imo, they can be more difficult to attain. Much depends on whether a Crew uses the BSA system of recognition. Some Crews are tied into other activities, and there is an already existing recognition system. They end up using that. Here's to her having fun on the trail

You're the Cubmaster, so you'll be the principal program officer for your unit. I'd also take: - All 3 Den Leader specifics (Tiger, Wolf/Bear, and Webelos). Learn about the shoes your DLs have to walk in! - BALOO. Understand outdoor program policy. - Safe Swim Defense. Understand how to create a good "pool party". Like Neal said, attend Roundtable and go to either Pow-Wow (a Council supplemental training for Cub leaders) or University of Scouting (a Council supplemental training with materials for all Scouting programs). Finally, I'd take Den Chief training. Understand the added value a good Boy Scout can bring to a Den and to a Pack. It also will help you remember to ask various area Troops to provide support to your program. KISMIF!!!

As a Dad who brought his kid up in Scouts after divorce, I understand the issue of wanting "my own time with my son." I think I'm blessed, folks helped me see the value of various external activities ... Agreed. Stay out of the middle ground. Options, which are not in the middle ground, imo: - CC/CM/DL invite Dad for coffee. Explain Aims, Methods and program of cub scouting. Show it adds value to youth. Since the young man is a Web 2, share the Scout Oath and these particular elements of the Scout Law: Helpful, Friendly, Courteous and Kind. - Have a similar coffee with Mom. Make sure she understands she will start disconnecting with her son as he moves up into the Troop, and he will have more opportunity to be independent. - CC/CM have a quiet discussion with the COR about unit practices for children and parents of divorce. - Absolutely do keep Dad in the loop with information. - Privately, pray for the young man.

le V, Sadly, that is probably a discussion which needs to go up Ranger channels to the national Health and Safety folk. From watching my two Reservation Rangers, they're involved in program safety management as an integral part of their facilities jobs.

Scouter1960, Granted, I only have your end of the conversation, but I also think this Pack isn't a place where you can spend your volunteer time well. Volunteerism does not come with a contract to have to fight every issue in a boxing ring; it should be collaborative and rewarding. I'd contact the Institutional Head (also called Executive Officer), and ask to visit. I'd also ask the COR be there. They need to know what's going on. The COR needs to understand he's not a figurehead. Once you've done the exit meeting, quietly, with no talking at the new unit, move on to a new Pack. If you're serving as a Den Leader, it's within bounds to tell the parents you are moving to better places as a Scouter. Good Scouting to you.

Avery, Beavah's is probably the best advice posted here so far. I'd read it, keep an open eye and mind, and keep growing up. Second, different Troops have different emphases. You may find a unit in your area that's a bit less strong on chapel. Look around and see. Third, I'll bet you some of your friends go to church youth groups Sunday afternoons or some time during the week. You might ask to go with them. Much of youth groups are hanging out and having fun. If you tell the adult you're not sure at all about faith, but aren't ready to discuss it, most will hang back. When they've earned your trust and you want to have a heart to heart talk, they'll be there.

Voltaire and the Age of Enlightenment would not be a bad study either...

Avery, we deal with the questions you present us. Yours was so open-ended I needed additional clarity to form my answer. B, you were right about where I was heading, thanks. Avery, the question of age was to help me. It's hard to do this by internet message board, and the words I use for 12-14 year olds taking God and Country are different from the ones I'll use to share with you. I don't know if you're Eagle yet, or driving on Eagle. If you're driving on Eagle, you will confront this issue, most likely, at your Eagle Board of Review. You may well be denied Eagle. Unlike many appeals we discuss here, it's possible your denial will stick. The Boy Scouts of America, as part of the Character Aim, do emphasize a belief in a Higher Power. The specifics are given very broad latitude indeed. Shinto and Buddhism are in, as is Hindu, just as are Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. Someone in your neck of the woods can tell me if there are Native American majority troops where families still practice historic traditions. There is a line. A-theism and non-theism are usually across the line. Adults must subscribe to a values statement of the BSA, called the Declaration of Religious Principle. Google it and Scouting and you'll get the precise wording. Failure to buy into the Declaration is and has been grounds to remove an adult from Scouting. I will say this: Science can explain many things, but it cannot explain the beginning of the Big Bang. Sooner or later, to me, God is needed for "In the beginning...". Equally, I can explain more miracles, where the doc says "nothing more can be done," but the patient heals, with God than I can with random chance. Do you belong in Scouting? That's not a head decision, that's a heart decision. It's for you and you alone to make. I would recommend having this conversation with a trusted Scouting adult local to you! There's a lot of emotion being lost as each of us types our replies. For now, I will say... Look at the Scout Oath. Look at the Scout Law. If those are living touchstones to you, then you may well belong here. If they're empty words, otoh, maybe Scouting has doen as much as it can for you. Peace and Good Scouting to you.

In spite of the fact we're politically in opposite parties, Lisa, I agree with you. Truth be told, I'm more concerned about why 27 Members of Congress weren't around for the vote. Of course, some seats are vacant this close to the next election due to death, resignation, or conviction, but 27??? Frankly, we do have bigger fish to fry than a commemorative coin. After all, if the US doesn't, the Franklin Mint probably will...

Hello, Avery... and welcome... Let me ask a couple questions: Are you old enough to drive? I use that as a breakpoint in how I discuss faith. Do you go with your parents anywhere for worship? What are your thoughts about a Higher Power at this point in your life? It's OK to struggle with faith. Been there, done that. That's enough questions to start a real conversation. I'm not going to say No, you don't belong in Scouting. I'm a Dad of an older teen myself, and I've been a teen. Not having firm and formed opinions is part of life at this stage. I'll be looking for your responses. Peace and Good Scouting to you.

Give me a khaki boonie hat for summer time (shade all around my head) and a woolen watch cap for the winter time (warm all around my head). Alternatively, give me the Army 4 season BDU patrol cap Lisa, if your Troops' youth are having fun with the berets, that's what matters. Thoughts about functionality aside, they're having fun and they're norming on the item. That's good. Finally, as for the Guardian Angels still being out there... GOOD. We need more citizen involvement in taking back our streets.

COR on paper usually means no one has cultivated the Chartered Partner over time. If you take the CC position, you can help repair this relationship. If you accept the CC position, insist on having a discussion with the Executive Officer of the Chartered Partner. Quietly discuss your concerns, but tell him you want the best experience the youth members can get! Visit also with your Unit Commissioner. Find out what resources he/she can bring to the table. Take training. Learn to use the tons of resources Scouting makes available to you. Learn "what right looks like," so you can give the youth a great time for their beginning of the trail. Attend roundtable; network with others, get program and support information, and have some Scouting fun I wish I could tell you all will be well ... but whether this CM stays or goes, there's going to be work in getting the unit back to a smooth running operation. If you take the CC position, take the CM out to coffee. Find out what is happening in his life. It may be that as bad as it is, his service to Scouting is an anchor in his life.

Lisa, ... Yes, YNW was to Obama, but it was in the pre-Harry Potter days vein... The thing I do not like about Obama is we're going to cut and run, and leave another nation high and dry for takeover. Mark my words... if we leave Iraq before the end of 2010 (and it will take most of that time to get out, unless we abandon our equipment in place), it will be part of greater Iran by 2015. Yes, as an old soldier I don't like how Bush has treated the force. We ride our Army and Marine Corps hard, put the divisions away wet, and call them out before the dawn. That's fixable, if the Administration wants to put resources against the problem. That said, I'm old school... if you decide to fight, you must decide to win! Have a great Memorial Day weekend all

Here's a scary thought someone in my office had... Hillary goes supportive or at least quiet. Election Day happens. You-Know-Who wins. Hillary's payoff: John Paul Stevens seat on the Supreme Court. I was listening to NPR the last couple days. Apparently there are more than a few Democratic women who have decided NWIH they'll give their vote to Obama. I guess the real question is how bad she wants the job and how willing she is to help the party implode. If Lisa's right, she'll be on the frontlines helping heal the party. If Lisa's not right, watch for the sucking noise from Denver... I still want Dr Rice for VP...

Tahawk... I guess that comes under the heading that bad training is better than good training. Sigh.

Two other comments... If, in conversations, you get an understanding that the IH and/or COR are happy with this new SM, then quietly, graciously, and quickly depart. Scout units do belong to the Chartered Partner. If they're happy, it's time to leave. I'd let your son tell his friends "we're moving, I think I'll have more Scouting fun at Troop 987..." You can't stop them from backstabbing you if they so choose, you can avoid giving them extra blades! Please let us know how this works out.

Lisa, Like Beavah said, have the young men "look local" for a 2009 HA. I'll bet they'll find something they can do within a full driving day of home. This would be a good time to teach them about inflation. Sigh. This would also be a good time to teach them about contracts. Help them understand if they sign on to Jamboree, they have to earn the money.

OK, I'm going to see the cost of goods, at retail, is to make 9 ounces of Trail mix. I don't mind fundraising, but quantity and value do have to link up at some point. The price implies full retail plus the fundraising costs... Both popcorn and GSUSA cookies are a lot more reasonable. Has anyone seen Camp Fire Mints in the past few years???