Stosh

National recognizes one uniform, completely explained on the inspection sheet they publish. Anything else, called by whatever name one wishes to use, is not a uniform and any pack, troop or ship can wear them as they see fit. A pack can wear T-shirt #1 on Monday, #2 on Tuesday, etc. call them Class B, activity wear, regalia, costume, or whatever and it is okay as long as one does not say they are a BSA uniform because they aren't. I just call them Boy Scout T-shirt and blue jeans, but that's my personal preference. For the boys that don't have a uniform, because they aren't required, I just suggest a white t-shirt or dress shirt and blue jeans. Venturing crews are the only units that can create their own uniform that is not the one spelled out by BSA. For example, my crew of Civil War reenactors adopted two different uniforms, one was blue and the other grey. They can adopt the green shirt/grey pants if they wish. I wear a BSA uniform for all BSA activities. That includes, socks, pants w/belt, shirt, jac-shirt (in cooler weather), necker and hat. After 30 years of such practice, I have never been inflicted with a rash or some terrible disease by doing so. Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

To take in money under a certain pretense and then use it for another is basic money laundering. People gave money to the BSA and individual accounts is an overlooked stretch when the boy buys personal items with it rather than part of the BSA program, i.e. summer camp. To use it for non-BSA purposes is a stretch I would never want to take in light of the Scout Law. Trustworthy. I'm raising money to go to camp (while wearing his scout uniform) indicates to the contributor that the boy will use it for the program which he is promoting. Would the person buy popcorn from a scout with the assumption that he was going to bible camp with it? I don't think so. Stosh

All well and good, but the councils that support the camps mentioned in my previous post were out-of-state councils! I know of three states that support camps in our state. Stosh

I have serious concerns about why the police have not arrested Zimmerman, is it because of the law or is it because of Zimmerman being a victim. We have no idea. Has this issue been hushed because of it's Zimmerman's racial issues or because a white man shot a black man in self defense and all *$@%'s going to hit the fan anyway. Operating on partial media hype-reports and a silent legal system trying to get to the bottom of the issue correctly, always makes for more "news" than what really might be there. Out of ALL newsworthy issues that I have been involved with over the years the media has NEVER gotten the story correct. That's not my opinion, that's my experience. I'm going to hold out until it hits the courts in an appropriate forum before deciding judgment. The courts tend to be a bit more forthcoming with their evidence than the hype/speculation of the "news" media. Stosh

I had someone just recently ask me about a BSA camp that was located less than an hour and a half drive away. I had never heard of it yet it was a camp 45 miles from the out-of-council BSA camp my boys attended regularly. I seriously do not know of all the camps that are located within a 3 hour drive of my home. That's sad to say the least. How many good opportunities are the boys missing just because the councils/regions/national can't communicate effectively. Stosh

I heard on the radio there is more information coming out on this. Zimmerman called in the police, they told him to leave the area and he was returning to his vehicle. Eye-witness saw two men fighting, one was down on the ground being beaten, he was wearing a read sweatshirt. The other was wearing a light colored hoodie. It would appear from the evidence that with the grass stains on the back of the red sweatshirt that this is correct. The person being beaten had head injuries on the back of his head indicating he was on the ground. He suffered facial injuries and a broken nose. Zimmerman was the one wearing the red sweatshirt. There is more to this story than the media is letting out. When we get to the pure evidence of the case, I'm thinking this story is going to change a lot. The reason Zimmerman has not been charged is not because of the Florida law, racism or anything else other than the evidence and eye-witness account indicates he might have been the victim. I feel sorry for the poor young lad who was killed, but I'm thinking there is a lot more to the story than what is being portrayed in the media at this point. 95% of black male murders/killings are done by other blacks. This rare incident unfortunately will always make big news for its racial possibilities to sell newspapers, but I'm going to wait out the evidence before I jump to conclusion when it comes to media hype-reporting slanted to gain the biggest buck. Stosh

With two patrols, I agree with Beavah on the need for SPL. Unless there is a functional use for a POR I don't see much value in it except to push people through the advancement process without having to do much real leadership. To wrap your mind around the idea. One patrol - Well, that's clear cut he's the PL not the SPL. Duh! Two patrols? 2 PL's discuss it out and it's no big deal. So what does the SPL do? Referee? I don't think so. 3+ patrols? Now I can see some actual functioning necessary for the SPL and would think it appropriate. JASM? - This is a prestige patch at best. Most of the time it signifies an Eagle scout who happens to get his Eagle before he turns 18, needs no more POR and yet doesn't want to go back and work with the boys. 99% of the time their position of responsibility is sitting on a chair and keeping it warm. For me it's an honorary "title" with no honor connected to it. If I saw two Eagles standing next to each other and one Eagle had JASM on his sleeve and the other DC, I'll take the DC Eagle any time when it comes to actually doing leadership. These leadership patches are terribly mis-defined. They indicate Position of Responsibility, not leadership functionality. We like to think it's leadership, but it's not. Dictating SM requirements to the masses is not the SPL's leadership, it's merely followingship. If the boys don't listen, it's called bullying to get the job done. It's my responsibility that this task gets done, and by Jove, you're going to do it or else. I've seen this way too often in troops. So what then is the leadership of the SPL? I always look at him (in the patrol method troops) as the TG for PL's. So should there be elections with the PLC selecting the SPL? Nope, the SPL should be the one that the PL's want to mentor them, whoever that might be. They will follow only those they want to follow and find value in that process. That boy the PL's want to follow should be in that SPL position for as long as the PL's want him to be there. That may be 1 month if they think they goofed in picking him, or he might be in there for a couple of years if he's really good at helping PL's do their leadership in the patrols. If one has an SPL that the PL's like and the patrols have a PL they like, why would anyone want to rock the boat in the middle of the stream with an election? Oh, yeah, someone who doesn't want to work very hard needs POR advancement. Well, that's not a good enough excuse for me. Dens are always looking for DC's, and when was the last time a troop had a functional bugler? Get out and roll up your sleeves and quit looking for the plum job of telling everyone else what to do. Stosh

Again, here's why I differ from the BSA "policy". SPL should be elected from the PL's. If he is to be the SENIOR PL, and working in the patrol method with them, they should be the ones who select him. If the SPL is running the troop using the troop method, then this is always the possible result of what one asks for. Just my thoughts. Stosh

My boys never chose up sides when it came to any troop competitions, they always competed as a patrol. NSP boys with their TG would go to their first camporee competitions and instead of thinking that they were competing, the TG would work with the patrol to learn HOW to compete. What were the judges looking for?, what was the activity?, what needs to be done to come ready for the next competition?, etc. Did they ever win at any of the competitions the first year? Not to my knowledge, but by the time fall camporee came around, they were ready and did win a few. The best I have ever seen was at summer camp the first time my boys went to a new camp. All week long the boys did activities that earned them "gold" coins. At the end of the camp, they had a camp-wide "war" of competitions where the boys bought "weapons" hired "mercenaries" (other boys who were knocked out of the competition), and did "battle" for a whole afternoon. Being the only out-of-council patrol, they were left on the outside looking in. However, in the last hour of competition my boys who were spending the whole afternoon looking on, were watching the other boys compete, taking notes on who was good at what and when the camp thought the "war" was over, they realized they had one more patrol to beat. Piece of cake, they had proven themselves the best against all the other patrols! However, my boys were sitting on a huge pile of gold, bought up all the best mercenaries, weapons, and took camp-wide honors. It was rather embarrassing for the council to have to award the best of the best to the only non-council patrol in camp that week. By the way, the oldest boy in that patrol was 13. I spent my entire time as ASM with Advancements. I made sure my boys not only knew what to do, but also how to think. Major advantage in any competition. My boys were consistently being "charged" with cheating. However, they had only learned to play the game correctly. Every time a fire and string competition came along, if the judge did not say the fire had to be on the ground, they build a wooden platform to within a couple of inches of the string and lit it. Double string was a bit harder but if they build a good fire, it was no problem. Most of the boys had "tinder kits" in ziplock bags they broke open and lit with magnesium for their fires, burned faster and hotter than matches. Always got extra credit for that, too. If the judge did not prescribe certain items for first aid, the boys adopted quicker and more efficient means. They might provide splints and bandages and then check the bandage knots to make sure they were all square knots. If they said the boys didn't need to use the bandages they would used duct tape which was faster and more efficient and bypassed the judgmental eye for square knots. The boys were always in full-uniform, had their patrol flag, and did their yell before they started any competition. The PL was in complete charge and knew which of his boys was best at what and assigned duties accordingly. They always had a plan laid out before they started, based on information learned from the last competition. Broken leg, Scout 1 held the leg, scout 2 put on splits, scout 3 duct taped one end, scout 4 the other end, scout 5 & 6 prepared the stretcher, they always had 6' walking sticks and used their coats. By the time the splint was on, the stretcher was ready and they were done. There was no need for discussion, no confusion on who did what, and always looked polished and professional. If it was a broken arm, no stretcher needed and scout 5 & 6 had the sling ready instead of the stretcher. SLAM - Stop, Look, Assess, Manage - in that order. The first thing you apply in any competition is your brain. Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

Cutting corners is about the fastest way I know of to totally embarrass the boys during their first year of scouting and causes many to drop out. They come into scouting thinking they are top dog with the AOL and find out that they aren't. When I did Web II I spent a lot of time doing the pins and pushed them beyond their "requirements" so they matched the BSA T-FC equivalents. Just after they crossed over, they came prepared with all the knowledge of T requirements and passed them all with flying colors, but had to wait the 30 days to do the second half of the fitness requirement. They showed up properly packed for an overnighter, etc. and the SM was blown away when some of the more aggressive boys were almost at FC when it came time for summer camp. While earning the aquanaut pin, they passed the BSA swim test twice, did it for BSA advancement and were all swimmers at summer camp reading for the swimming MB. Same for Readyman pin, they did the Readyman requirements and then went on with the T-FC requirements too. Was I breaking every rule in the BSA by adding to the Web II/AOL requirements? Sure, but out of the two dens I had 9 of the 11 boys Eagled. Was that my intent? No, the boys had a lot of fun, were heavy into esprit-de-corp in their NSP when they went on to their first spring camporee and took awards from boys that were a lot older than them. Was there any hazing of the NSP scouts? Nope, when they got the prizes the older boys focused on stepping up their game so as to be more competitive. Their advancement was more of not wanting to let down their buddies than for personal gain. 95% of the process was promoted by the scouter leadership helping the boys succeed. For those years of Web II "training" the emphasis was on Be Prepared. They were and it showed. People who find it necessary to do short-cuts to help the boys feel successful in the short run are not doing them any favors over the long haul. Stosh

The way I teach square knots is simple, the rule applies to about 90% of all knots. OVER UNDER! That's it. For knot tying instruction I take two pieces of parachute cord of different colors, let's just say black and white for now. Hold the two pieces points up one black, one white, doesn't make any difference which is right or left. Then have the boy declare one or the other as running (moving) and the other standing (stationary). Let's say black is running Take the running black rope and put it over (in front of)the other and go under. What you have now is a reversal of sides, the black is now on the other side but it is still running so it goes back over (in front of) the white and under. Pull tight you have a square knot. For the double half-hitch loop around pole, the short end is running. Lay it over the other rope and loop under coming up in the loop. Do it a second time, it always works. Taut line, same but go over/under twice in the loop before extending out and going over under in the new loop. Clove hitch, lay the rope along the pole, go over/under coming back up in the loop, go down the pole and do the same over under. It's a double half-hitch on a pole instead of a rope. It usually only takes once or twice for the boys to remember over/under and they learn the knots very quickly. Stosh

There is always a delicate balance between what some parent/outsider has to offer and whether or not their expertise is welcomed into the MB conversation. This example is not related to MB per se, but it does give a good lesson. As a reenactor, I attend events other than my passion (American Civil War) and there was one occasion where a reenactor was explaining in a seminar, the uniform worn by the Waffen SS soldier in Germany during WW II. After the presentation he asked if there were any questions or comments. One elderly gentleman offered up a bit of advice as to how one piece of equipment was worn which was contrary to the reenactor's presentation. The reenactor politely let the spectator know that after extensive research, photographs, diaries, etc. that this new information was not correct. The gentleman stood there quietly and just smiled. The reenactor thought that reaction to be strange and asked the man where he came about his research. The spectator simply said, in WW II he was a Waffen SS soldier. After that I have always started every MB session with the question "Why are you taking this MB". Many times I have found that it's because the family is involved in the topic and I then use that interest for the boy to add information from his personal experience into the lessons and or parents are allowed a comment or two in the discussion. If he is just taking it because he's interested that's a whole different story and the family may not be interested in getting involved in the process. Keep it mind that MB's aren't just for scouts, too. I had a group of canoeist/kayakers heading up to BWCA for a week. They came to me because I was a SM and asked if I could give them lessons on maps and compasses a skill they would be needing for the trip. I bought a MB Orienteering booklet for each person and taught the MB. They thought it was great! If the only reason one takes a MB to get a check mark in their BSA handbook, please disregard this posting. On the other hand if the reason a scout is taking the MB because it's a stepping stone towards more current family involvement, potential own family involvement, friends, clubs or organizations he may join some day. Then one might want to store this information in the back your mind for future reference. Stosh

There are some out there that need to distinguish between certain types of scouters and it's basically prejudicial at best. I was in Cub Scouts for 4 years and never got above the rank of Bear - Lousy Pack at best. Went on to Boy Scouts for 4 more years and never got above the rank of 2nd Class. - Again, am I penalized because the SM was running a poor program? I had no choice, it was the only troop in town. Finally went into Civil Air Patrol and raised to the rank of cadet officer. I love the out of doors so after becoming an adult and having worked with youth through college and other civic/church organizations I got back into scouting when my kid was a Tiger. Been there ever since. WB trained, but not the new and improved, better than all the rest of those who haven't had the 21st Century WB. Is there bigotry/prejudice going on with the scouters as to who has knots, bells and whistles, lanyard and beads? Yep. There are those who judge others based on their accomplishments, and then there are those who judge others based on their potential. I tend to fall into the second category. Stosh

Man! Am I barking up the wrong tree here. I tell everyone of my new boys that if they apply themselves, listen, learn and roll up there sleeves there is no reason they can't be Eagle. I then go on to tell them all the fun they're going to have along the way. Then I cite a couple of examples of boys that did just that and made it to Eagle, even if it was the day before they turned 18. Was that pie-in-the-sky? Probably, but I wasn't going to admit that to all these avid new scouts just starting out on their scouting journey. I never ran an Eagle Mill program, but my boys all achieved far more than they ever expected to. I went back into Cubbing to pick up Webelos II dens and brought them over into Boy Scouts. Did it twice and of the 11 boys in those two dens 9 Eagled. One boy came to me at his ECOH and told me personally that except for his dad, I was the only adult male that had been with him the most and supported him in a lot he did, even outside of Scouting. Even as ASM I received mentor pins. I expected the best and for the most part that's what I got out of these boys. Did all the hundreds of boys that passed through my arena of influence receive Eagle? No, but they all at least had the chance. Stosh

While it is important for advancement to get in a prescribed length of hike, and it's important to get out and get going on something, keep it in mind that the #1 issue is building a cohesive group. Get the boys into planning something THEY want. You can ask all you want from this group for ideas, but the final decision needs to be made by the boys. Get the boys out to what they decide on and watch closely to see who's "taking the lead" on things. See who works well with whom, who doesn't, etc. Watch and learn your boys and keep offering up quality suggestions for THEM to decide on. If THEY decide that this month they are not going camping, but doing a fundraiser to raise money for tents, so be it! LISTEN, LISTEN, WATCH, and then LISTEN some more. Best of luck! Stosh

I've had a few boys like that over the years and JoeBob has the right idea. These boys are doing this because this is how they learned from their parents to get their way. If the boy doesn't like what's being served, they have two options. 1) PBJ in the chuck box or 2) check at the other troops to see if they have anything better. I had a great SM friend of mine figure this out quickly when my boy showed up at his troop and actually asked. The SM asked what it was we were serving. When the boy told him, he jumped up, grabbed his mess kit and told the boy he could have what he would have had that he's going down to my troop because it sounded better. He came down, had a great meal/chat together and the boy never again pulled that stunt. When boys like this don't get the usual response, it confuses them and they don't know how to handle getting their bluff called. The last thing one does in a situation like this is what the boy would naturally expect. How long before we get there? I don't know, I think we're lost. It may take be a while. Johnny took my hat. Bummer, when we get back we'll have to call the police, but I don't think they're going to want to drive all the way out here just because of a hat. I don't like the onions in the stew. I don't like the celery, so why don't you sit next to me and I'll spit the celery into the fire and you can do the onions. I didn't bring my mess kit. Not a problem after everyone gets served up, you can eat out of the serving pot. My tent leaked last night. So did mine, I bet we're the only two that have in-door pools. You'd pay extra at a hotel for that. I get stuck with cleaning the dutch oven all the time. Must mean you are doing the best job. And even if you aren't doing a good job, just imagine how bad it would be if someone else did it. I'm homesick. I'm sick of home, too, that's why I'm here. If one does this often enough they quit complaining or they keep complaining just to see how quick you are on your feet with a comeback. The caveat with this approach is that there are some boys out there pushing buttons and others that are sincerely struggling and need special help. One needs to be sensitive to which one is which. Stosh

Normally I didn't want parents to be around when I was doing a MB, but as a Bugling MBC, sometimes there was only one boy and I was single at the time. I needed the parent to stay. Fortunately I had a living room/dining room combo with an archway between the two. The parent was expected to sit quietly in the living room and I had the boy in the dining room. Worked out good. I had only one problem and that was with one parent who wouldn't stay seated in the living room but listened in and then would jump up and get involved. Sometimes one can't win now matter how hard they try. Fortunately for me, that parent/son never came back. I hope the boy found a MBC that would put up with his parents. Stosh

When I took WB it didn't have the 5 ticket items it had 9 items, it had them broken down into 3 areas and worked a bit differently than those today. I think they were three personal, three professional and three for scouting. I was an ASM in charge of Advancement so my scouting goals were: 1) Improve the T->FC process in my troop. 2) Work with council to improve the Webelos outdoor leader training program with emphasis on helping them transition the boys. 3) Go back pick up a Webelos II den as DL and work with them for a year and help them make the transition into Boy Scouts. 1* I stayed in the ASM/Advancement of the troop for 13 years. 2* I worked with the council and headed up the Webelos outdoor leader training program for 6 consecutive years. 3* I enjoyed #3 so much I repeated it a second time with another group of boys. Five of the 6 boys of the first group and 4 of the 5 of the second group all Eagled. Back in the day, the goal setting for WB tickets were more a starting point for the participants to identify skills and interest and pursue them throughout one's scouting career. When I went in for my "final" review with my WB coach, he asked me what I had done for my ticket and if I was finished. I flat out told him, it would never be finished in the time allowed. He smiled and signed off on it. I never saw my ticket as a one shot goal. The game ain't over 'til the final buzzer. I used to be a Beaver. Stosh

I'll have to give that a try on the splitting. I would position the folding saw in the category of a large serrated buck knife. They are nice for small things, but tend to take forever in that the blade is quite short. Each stroke is only about 6-8" at best. With a lot of boys with extra energy and elbow grease, it works nicely, but for the individualist, it's more of a survival saw and the cable saw is far more compact and safer in the long run. I carry the cable saw for specialty work and with two rings, it keeps both hands occupied, it keeps the fingers out of the way but is very slow going as compared to a bow saw. I used to have a folding saw that was basically a triangular bow saw that the blade folded up onto the handle thingy after detaching from the end. I don't know how many times I cut myself on that stupid thing before it hit the trash can. Fitted nicely into backpack, but wasn't worth the cost of bandaids. For troops and councils that ban the sheath knife, that's all well and good, but the same safety training used in the kitchen with the butcher knives/filet knives, it shouldn't be a big deal except for supervision purposes. I would challenge any troop/patrol to see how well they keep a safety circle when they are cutting up carrots and potatoes for stew. I'm sure I would rather have a sheathed knife on a boys belt in the woods before I would have a razor sharp filet knife doing the potatoes in camp with all the other boys looking over his shoulder. 95% of the knife injuries I have seen in 40 years of working with youth have all been in the kitchen area. The other 5% were boys screwing around and would have cut themselves on any knife whether it folded up, locked or fixed. The only other cuts I experienced were with saws and one boy didn't believe me when I said my belt axe was razor sharp. He cut himself taking it out of the sheath. Stosh

By the way sheaths for pencils are more properly called pocket protectors and are far too geeky for the dashing young scout to be wearing. The belt axe/sheath knife combo once sold by the BSA is a tremendous outdoor tool. I prefer the belt axe over the hand axe any day because the handle is so much shorter and easier to control. For fire fuel preparation nothing beats a hand axe. Pocket knives are too small and bow saws to dangerous. I can produce more tinder if a few minutes that would take a scout with a pocket knife a half hour. Opening up wood to expose dry inner core takes but a couple of sharp strikes and is impossible with pocket knife and/or saw. Just haven't found a suitable substitute than the old belt axe. Because it's BSA equipment, no one has ever questioned my use of it at any scout camp, but when I am doing a non-scout campout, I carry a lighter version of it to save on the weight issue. Do I let boys use it? Sure, but only after they are well trained and "threatened to within an inch of their lives" if ever caught abusing the privilege of borrowing it. The belt axe is sharpened to knife sharpness which is very dangerous, but extremely effective. I have never canoed/kayaked without the belt axe. Nothing cuts through boat lines quicker and nothing can produce a warming fire quicker on a cold day than a such a tool. And if I roll my canoe and get tangled, it's handier than digging in my pocket for a pocket knife. Sorry, after 50 years, I'm not going to settle for second best. Stosh

From the pictures they are tending to wear the Expedition hat which is an official headgear anyway. I would think that a do-rag kind of headgear would be no different than a garrison cap in terms of practicality. Of the pictures I looked at of the troop none of them were wearing a do-rag, but a lot of them had the Expedition hat which I think is very practical and useful while looking sharp. My honor patrol boys adopted that hat and one can always pick them out in a crowd, especially with colored hat cords. Stosh

A buck knife in a belt holder is a sheath knife. A Leatherman in a belt holder is a sheath knife. I think they are only referring to fixed blade sheath knife of which the three in this example are the safest. A buck knife has to be taken out of the sheath, opened and locked. A Leatherman is the same except one has to look around for a while to see which is the blade. The fixed blade comes out of the sheath and is ready to go. They have had to draw it out by the handle, the only way to get it ready and they never have to touch the blade for any reason. Unlike the Buck and Leatherman which need handling of the blade necessary to make it functional. After almost 50 years of wearing and using sheath knives while camping, hunting and fishing, I have never cut myself with it. On the other hand (no pun intended), I can't say the same for my pocket knife. Stosh

When in doubt.... This is the gut check that says: 1) This is a bad omen forming on the horizon that may be dangerous. 2) This is a situation I may not be able to handle even if it isn't all that dangerous. Either way, it gets cancelled. Stosh

I found that when no one stepped up, I as SM would collect up all the information at RT, etc. and simply present to the boys by holding it up and asking if anyone wanted to take the lead on this event. If no one did, I tossed it. Generally there is more than enough of this stuff to keep the idea that there are a ton of things out there that off some fun that goes beyond just the unit. Eventually someone will bite and check it out. I have had boys go back to the trash can and drag something out because they didn't want to step up and lead, but they were interested. Unless ownership of the boys catches on, all the communication in the world isn't going to excite the boys. Just put it out there and eventually their curiosity will get the best of them and they'll at least check it out. If there is nothing forthcoming from RT, Council, etc., then I simply suggest they check out some of the websites out there that have things going on. Same thing for Boys Life and Scouter magazines that left after a meeting. If it has a BSA logo on it, we're good to go to look it over. This process really raises havoc with the annual calendar for the boys, but at least things that they are interested in get brought to light. Stosh

Unless one really likes to play political games, I'd take a major pass on this one. Anytime someone feels they've been "blindsided", it's time to find greener pastures. Just my 2-cents worth. Stosh