Horizon

3 years with no rank advancement by an entire group of boys who bridged over is a sign that one of the methods is not being used IMHO. Then again, I am not there to see it all. 1) To get to do the first pull up - you can exercise in a variety of ways. Bent arm hang is one of the best, followed by pushups daily. 2) I have the entire Troop do the Tenderfoot test together every year after bridging. We have all of the new Scouts PLUS everyone else do the first test and the Scribe records it. Then we have all everyone do it again a month later. This makes it a more Troop event, some cheering, and the Patrols are working together. Yes, I also participate as well - I think that it is important for Scout Leaders to set the example that physical fitness is important no matter what the age.

I loved Tom Hale as a Scout, and still have my patches somewhere around here. To follow on everyone else: 1) If you are in Oklahoma withOUT a daddy long legs saying hello, then someone has dropped nuke. That is the only way to get rid of them. The daddy long legs won the critter crawl competition when I was there too. 2) Black widows are fine, its those brown recluse that still give me the heebie jeebies. 3) If you want bad food, try cafeteria food in England and get back to me. Boy Scout camp food is far from the worst mass produced food "product" I have consumed. REAL Scouters pack their own Tabasco to save a meal.

Eagledad: I just want to state that while I disagree with you 100% regarding the assumed morality of anyone who is homosexual, I appreciate the way that you have approached this particular recurring debate. You are welcome to a scoop of cobbler and cup of coffee at my campfire any time. Not that you aren't still wrong, of course. -Horizon

As soon as the Catholic Church started losing court cases in regards to molestation charges in the ranks, the BSA should have started cleaning up their files and determining whether or not the BSA had every failed to operate both legally (as mandated reporters depending on the state) or morally (no definition should be necessary. Yes, the files are full of accusations with no proof. What SHOULD exist is a commentary that states that the accusation was received, and how it was evaluated and followed up on. We should be the best at protecting kids (and I think that we are good, but not necessarily the best). Our system should be a model for everyone else. I HOPE that a review of all of these files does not turn into a situation where it appears that the BSA covered up for molesters rather than cleaning up our own house. This is why I said that there should have already been a task force going through all of this already, at the request of the BSA. Yes - now we are now up against hired gun plaintiffs lawyers and it could get really ugly. We need to be able to show that we did everything we could to protect the kids first. NOBODY should be surprised that these files are going to be released. There is no way that we would have gotten away with keeping lists of potential child molesters secret.

BSA should have seen this coming, and handed all of files over to a 3rd party organization for review. This could be a law firm, a group of former FBI agents, or whatever it was that the Scouts in Canada did. Instead, they stonewalled until forced into reaction instead of action.

Eagledad - I gave you three examples of three gays: One single gay male, minister One partnered lesbian professional, law professor, raising one male and one female child One partnered gay male, educated professional, raising a male child All 3 would happily serve in a Scout unit if allowed to. What is their "gay style of behavior" you are worried about as an example to other Scouts?

What is a "gay style of behavior"? Is it the Christian Minister friend of mine? So we don't want Christian Ministers in the troop? Or is it my Law school professor neighbor? Last thing we need is a law prof around! Maybe it is the CTO of the multinational corporation. He and his partner are spending WAY Too much time raising their son. Don't want THAT around. You will find that once you look beyond shock television, that "gay style of behavior" is as varied as "Christian style behavior" or "Hispanic style behavior." That there are good and bad examples of all of the above.

Has anyone tried implementing a Republic? Each Patrol gets one vote for SPL, so the SPL has to get the support of a majority of Patrols? Or perhaps the PL and the APL each get a vote? Just a random thought on the subject.

There is nothing wrong with focusing on a destination. My older son went with me to Yosemite for some backcountry work a couple of years ago. I would stop for views, he would take another peak. I would take some photos, he would get out the map to nail another achievement. At one point he did a 23 mile hike with a buddy, just because he needed that for Hiking MB. He, like many young men, is and was completely focused on the achievement badge. Now, though, ask him about the trip. He does not talk about the peaks, he mentions what he saw. The 23 mile hike is a story of river crossings, swamps, rotten logs, and bugs. The trip is all about his experiences. He was on a journey, he just didn't focus on it. Eagle can work the same way. Yes, some boys and parents focus on Eagle for the achievement / destination. Great - if that brings me a couple more Scouts for the Troop, I openly accept them. Along the way I will counsel them on a Merit Badge, or through a tough POR. They might be focused on Eagle, but they served as a Patrol Leader and learned how tough it is to have leadership over your peers at times. At their Eagle ceremony, their speech always has something interesting to learn about their journey. So if you want to take some boys hiking and they are not sure if they are into it - you make the achievement the focus. "We can hit every top peak surrounding our part of Southern California!" All of sudden, they are jamming on the destination, but getting a great journey along the way (whether they realize it or not).

213 is the Los Angeles area code - must have been for the LA Council.

First make sure that we really do have a problem. Everyone likes to talk about the occasional Scout who slips through, but do we really know how many of these there are? I would hate to implement a solution in search of a non-existent or very small problem. After that, we have to decide what it is we want the Eagle to stand for. I know what we find in the books, but are we looking for the perfect wilderness Scout like Baden Powell wanted? Are we trying to create fully self sufficient woodsmen? Is it the citizenship issues we want covered? The next generation of the Knights Templar? Skills: Personally, I would go for the Game with a Purpose and the Outing is 3/4 of Scouting for a starting point and work from there. Lets take outdoor skills - our district has a decent Camporee that is all about traditional Scout Skill competitions, with the top 3 patrols in the District honored for each event (shelter building, lashings, flag-pole raising, map & compass, knot tying, first aid knowledge and relay, etc.). This is the first week of April, and our patrols work furiously to get the newly bridged members of their patrols up to speed on the skills. I would say that we do a pretty good job with the basic skills of Scouting from the Trail to First Class. POR: So lets talk responsibility and leadership (The POR). These could use some cleaning up I think. Perhaps certain positions should only count for Star, then fewer for Life, and a limited number for Eagle. I am biased towards the Leadership positions I admit - Patrol Leader, SPL, ASPL if done right, and Quartermaster. JASM we only use for our Eagles. Merit Badges part one: I would bring back Cooking as required, and also add Backpacking to the list. Maybe create some interesting recognition for certain badge collections for the outdoors skills. My son went for all of the weapons badges as he called them (archery, shotgun, rifle). He also went for all water badges (sailing, rowing, canoeing and SCUBA along with Swimming and Lifesaving). Maybe we need a recognition for the Scout that earns all outdoor merit badges - just to give some of the boys something to target. Camping nights. My Troop as a boy had special patches for never missing a campout over 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 years (they might have added a 6th while I was gone). They certainly recognized the goal of getting us all outdoors. This lead to great participation by youth, a ton of adult leaders, and an advancement path that was never hindered by a lack of opportunity.

SeattlePioneer - you really should take a look at the Pew Research I linked to. This is a lot more than just "white liberals" supporting gay marriage rights.

SeattlePioneer: You might want to take a look at the changing trends of attitudes regarding gay marriage by group: http://features.pewforum.org/same-sex-marriage-attitudes/index.php The slides in this deck show breakdowns by religion, by some races, and most importantly to the future of the BSA - by age. Gen X (51%) and the Millenials (63%) both support gay marriage. They are the current round of Scout Leaders, and they are the ones that we are losing - because they won't join. I had my eyes opened up to this at a meeting with the student publishers of a conservative newspaper. They asked me why so much ink was spilled 25 years ago regarding gay issues. For them, it was fiscal issues that mattered. They truly did not care about gay issues, and considered it a distraction to their conservative mission. You mention the Asians. One of the first 5 questions I have at every new parent night is one of my Asian parents asking me if their son will be OK as a Buddhist, since the BSA is a fundamentalist Christian organization. That is their perception, and one I have to fight each time. By party - 59% of Democrats, 52% of Independents and 23% of Republicans (guys like me) support gay marriage. Ignoring this issue won't make it better, it instead will be one of the factors impacting recruiting. You won't know why that one dad didn't bring his son to the meeting, but it will be one of the factors. I have mentioned before - I know Eagle Scouts who earned their badge with me who will not enroll their sons in Scouting due to the anti-gay issue. They would be amazing leaders, but they can not go against their principles. I don't know how many we are losing because of this, and I think it would be a great survey - except that we would then have to decide what to do with the results.

I have Catholics, Evangelicals, Jewish, Buddhist and Muslim Scouts. I have kids in year-round school, regular schedule, homeschool and private school. Add in SAT test days, PSAT test days, AP test days, and various tournaments for athletics. There is no way to avoid all events. We assume a 50% participation rate for any given campout. Other that skipping Christmas day overlap (the majority celebrate Christmas), we just try to get outdoors.

Some of us volunteer to lead BECAUSE our kid is one of the behavioral problems. We feel guilty dumping them on others, so we are the ones to step up and try to keep some control. Mind you, I also am quick to nail my kid to the wall (OK - tie him to the tree using the right knots). But I do have a loud one who is hard to keep under control for a variety of reasons, and I am a leader as well.

Beavah - maybe it has been awhile since you were MBC for Cit Comm. This boy got a meeting, presented well, nailed a presence with the press, and kept the issue current. Even better, thanks to his own pedigree he makes an excellent spokesperson for this issue. When you are trying to help drive a significant change within the guidelines (per our Law of Obedience) - that was a pretty good step.

How good is your SPL? We have had some of this, but it was dealt with by the SPL. The Scout was removed from his POR by the SPL. I think that some older Scouts also had a conversation with the problem Scout. They were not buying what he was selling, and they did not like what was being done to some of the younger Scouts. Once the Scout realized that it was not just him vs. adults, and that he was getting called out by fellow Scouts - he changed his game.

I have seen similar cases multiple times serving on BORs and in my own Troop. A boy hits everything, including POR, by the time he is 14-15 years old. All that is left typically is the 3 3-monthers (Personal Management, Family Life and Personal Fitness) and the project. Then, High School sets in, along with the 'fumes (gas and perfume as the joke goes). The boy shows up 30% of the time, helps out at times, can even be a good resource - but girls / band / AP coursework / job / athletics get in the way of constant participation. They boy finally decides to finish the Eagle - nails a good project, does the final 3 badges, and goes to the BOR. I open his Handbook, see that >3 years ago he earned Life and after that might have been SPL for 6 months as a Life Scout. After that, he has typically been given a Guide or Instructor patch. They pass. They did the work. It all lines up. Even better - they didn't earn Eagle "too young" as some around here like to gripe about!

I am another guy in the software world (though I market and sell it). The BSA is a great target for a services firm, but why would you develop for just one customer who is a non-profit? That is a tough path to take. We would be better off finding something that is developed for the corporate world, and finding a way to get a non-profit price for it (Salesforce.com for example has a way to get free licenses for non-profits). I would think that a 80% solution that is regularly updated thanks to profit based firms would be better than a 100% solution that will never have the revenue to pay for updates. It would be great to have a 100% cloud based solution that any camp could use, that would also integrate with Troopmaster for example. I focus on the cloud because few camps (or councils for that matter) will maintain the investment in servers over time either. Better to dump that on someone else in exchange for the constant services cost. Too many people treat tech as one-time purchases instead of as the constant cost that they really are.

WAG: There is probably another review by someone after the Council Rep - the 2 weeks gives them time to do it.

I grew into the belief that if you are willing to carry it on the trail, you can have it. So an iPod in your tent (not while hiking for safety reasons) is fine, a can of soda if you pack it in and out is fine, etc. I mentioned in another thread boys "checking in" on Facebook from the local peaks where a signal can reach you. For car camping, I didn't want to see it. When I return to the fold of the Troop - I will see what the PLC is doing.

We have given the Scout and parents a letter detailing the discipline meted out at the end of the meeting - but we also are 50% international and often have to have translators when dealing with parents. We have had physical issues - fighting and bullying to be blunt. Usually it is a loss of camping and POR privileges. That has worked well. Last thought - often it is the boy who is the most trouble that also needs Scouting the most. Balancing that with the needs of the good Scouts is tough, and I often have to re-read the parable of the prodigal son to keep my blood pressure under control I admit.

Research 3 possible careers that leverage the use of duck tape.

Just make sure we don't have any avowed fatties. If they recognize their sin and are working on not following their urges, they are OK. (tongue firmly planted in cheek, next to the Krispy Kreme remnants)

When I was Scoutmaster, I had the SPL hand out awards to the PLC, and he said something about each Scout. The rest of the awards were by the Patrols, with the Patrol Leader giving out the awards to his Patrol and talking about each guy. The Patrol then did their cheer. It worked OK, and made it a little more interesting. Nice competitiveness between the Patrols too. Sadly, it took more early work and coordination of the awards by our Advancement Chair, so it was tough to keep up. I still think there is a solution in there, we just did not have it dialed in yet before I stepped down.