fred8033

Sadly, the police, CPS and the courts are extremely busy. To get a police/prosecutor "investigation", this has to be really, really significant. A simple fact is that just too many events in society could be called a crime. Law enforcement needs to triage and handle the bigger crimes and high risk situations. I've been helping a non-scouting non-profit lately (don't want to get into details). They are dealing with really, really hard and potentially dangerous problems. But until an incident happens, the police are too busy with higher priority triaged incidents. Until then, the best we can get is a 30-minute response and a no trespass order ... and that's after we've already had big issues. From the given information, there is nothing that law enforcement would invest more than a phone call on. It's just not that high of a public danger risk. ... all IMHO ... BSA will never get law enforcement to exonerate your son. Law enforcement has real evils to pursue. This report just won't be seen as a big public risk ... and you should be glad about it. The real challenge is BSA bureaucracy working to protect youth and to protect BSA.

I'm just de-stressing as we wait. ... no worries. ... Providing humor and did not intend to get other posts removed. ... I still have my lawyer jokes ready though.

WHAT !!!!! Image removed? ... Months passing waiting for a ruling ... directly commenting on slow wait for the ruling .... Yet, @ThenNow gets to have an image about heating and air conditioning wages. ... AND ... AND !!!! ... AND !!!! ... Don't think I didn't notice that other posters got to have their lawyer jokes, but my previously very high quality legal profession humor was removed. ... ... I should take this to SCOTUS and have this injustice overturned. @RememberSchiff ... Thanks for what you do. ... FYI ... I do have a few more lawyer jokes to share.

Inspiring. THANK YOU !!

I've never heard of a national level investigation. Local councils investigate, remove membership and submit records to national for their ineligible volunteer files. Perhaps someone has heard of a national investigation. I haven't. Who told him? Did he receive a letter telling him he is suspended from scouting pending conclusion of the investigation? Does your son have any conflicts or other interpersonal experiences that might have escalated? I've often seen over zealous complaints submitted by upset parents. By "over zealous", I mean the complaint itself is a type of abuse against the scout and/or his family. Your son might not have been directly involved. ... example ... A bad event involving others results in a report. Someone might have written that others knew and/or did not follow the rules. Scouting investigates are a different breed. It's confidential. It's not a trial. You don't get to see the complaint and/or defend yourself. If there was a possibility of a crime, mandatory reporting to police would have already happened. So, it's some type of conflict inside scouting. ... Worst that can happen is membership revoked. I've never seen Eagle taken away. ... If the local council can't cleanly complete the investigation, individuals are often removed to protect BSA. Membership is a privilege. IMHO ... Your son should do everything he can to defend and/or protect himself. Follow-up. Move on. I love scouting, but it's not everything in the world. If the magic is gone, find the next great experience / activity / adventure.

Well (no pun intended) ... our camp water improved 10+ years ago. When I started camping at scout camps, there was lots of iron and particles in the water. Understandable as our sub-camp well was idle 10 months a year. Then about 10 years ago, a flexible pipe was run to every sub-camp. After that, the water was great. ... Before ... I felt like I needed to strain and boil the water.

I was part of CA class action in the 1990s where BCBS of CA was negotiating discounts with medical providers ... BUT the patient bill was based on the unmarked down portion. BCBS was claiming they covered theirs without paying their fair share. The issue was if the original bill was $10,000 and BCBS/patient had a 50%/50% share ... then BCBS would negotiate drastically down on the whole bill but the patient would still owe the full $5000. BCBS could end up owing nothing. ... Down right ugly fraud.

Is this normal? Early in the case, fees documents were filed 1 to 2 months after the month. Now, it's almost five full months later. That means there is a huge backlog of unbilled fees pending. That sounds dangerous.

Near retirement? Or just vested? Even if just a little amount, I'd expect anyone with 10+ years has an amount vested that would be protected by the PBGC.

It would be interesting to understand further. BSA and LCs are all independent companies in effectively a franchise like model. (yet another item that could be argued) ... BSA works like a benefit service provider for LCs ... I can't find any PBGC specifics on this, but what I do read makes me think each LC could be liable for the unfunded part for their employees. I could not envision LCs becoming liable for the pensions of BSA national employees including BSA national employees functioning as registrars and scout shop employees. ... but then again, this ain't simple stuff.

It was. ... I still don't understand, but that's okay.

You have the correct answer. ... The key then is to keep the organization in a healthy state. i.e. still registered and running. I always wondered if the "Parent Booster" approach might be best. ... In another words, all parents of scouts should be members of the parents booster club. Put their name down as boosters. ... The tangent is if they don't want to be part of the parent boosters, then perhaps they should find another scout unit for their scout. ... Not trying to be mean ... just trying to get all parents with a piece of the ownership to get it right ... boosters than run election to select the next CC and board members. That club if structured right should provide liability protection and shield the individuals.

We are really extending a tangent. ... but ... Would LCs be liable for pension? If McDonalds went chapter 7 and had under funded corporate pensions, I don't think the mom&pop individual franchise stores would share the corporate pension debt. Similar for BSA &LCs. ... BUT ... that's a whole massive ugly wart of a debate we've had before. The legal separation between BSA & LCs.

Nice to see. Often these situations are where scouts can shine. Strong expertise. Special unique experiences.

I read the article. I'm not fully understanding the second part as the UMC seems to be doing slightly more than providing space and storage.

Argument is beating a dead horse argument that has been done over and over. First-class-first-year is about planning. Troop planning / structure should support an active involved scout being able to get to first class in first year. It doesn't mean the scouts have to get there. It's a reflection that the troop program should be planned to enable a driven motivated scout to achieve it.

Good reflection that society changed. Twenty years ago, meetings were a way for friends to see friends and socialize. Now, most do that on-line. Kids won't leverage forced structures to socialize anymore. ... BUT, they still want adventures. ... BSA would be much more attractive if we focus more and more on the "outing".

@ThenNow has fairly represented the situation over time. ... His above posts are correct and reasonable. Your statement "everyone gets nothing" has truth too; as the judge's wish that BSA continues reflects other unspoken reasons. IMHO ... To avoid a far uglier, larger and more costly liquidation case. To avoid re-starting bankruptcy ... after spending 150+ million ... after 29 months. To avoid opening new huge questions that chapter 11 bankruptcy did not address. To get victims as much money as possible. There is no guarantee a liquidation would mean more money to victims. To get victims money earlier. Chapter 11 approval puts money into a trust fairly soon. Chapter 7 would be an unknown future date. To avoid creating many more court cases. Liquidation would be a BSA only liquidation; not a settlement with all involved parties. To avoid asking if BSA can even cease to exist. BSA is not a normal non-profit. BSA was created by law; passed by congress; signed by the president. Though usually an honorific, the law has implications that creates a real mess. ... It's like asking if the federal reserve can cease to exist. It would probably take an act of congress to take BSA out of existence. ... Would "liquidation" just put BSA into limbo until a future president re-established BSA, say 10 years from now? ... Starting fresh with no YP oversight from this bankruptcy agreement? Short and specific ... Index ... Full document containing 30901 To avoid a huge number of new questions. ... BSA national indebted properties (Philmont, The Summit) and their mortgages ... different debt priorities ... the separation of BSA and LCs ... funding pensions ... etc, etc, etc. There is truth that liquidation could mean everyone gets nothing.

Stop here first ...

This case is hugely about money. Always has been. Other factors such as YP improvements started years ago before the bankruptcy and the bankruptcy settlement additional YP expectations are not really that controversial. The bankruptcy questions now are wholly about money. How much is needed? What is fair? How can you pay money to SOL time-barred victims while paying less to victims with open, active claims? How much should each party pay / receive. How to control manage the legal process spend rate?

That was a running joke where I worked years ago. Work that would never get done had a due-date of April 1st without a year. Everyone knew the work would never get done. It was listed that way so people would not try to add the work yet again ... or they could work to get the priority changed.

Dumb questions ... #1 Payments to the trust fund ... Perhaps I missed something. To get out of bankruptcy, BSA must put money into a bankruptcy related trust fund. Once out of bankruptcy (aka for the next five years), I did not think there were further payments into a bankruptcy related trust fund. Is that true? Would the new post-bankruptcy BSA still have debt to be paid to a bankruptcy related trust fund? #2 proceedings duration ... give BSA can show a viable business plan ... and given there is no dispute to that future business plan and ability to continue ... then how can the cost of the bankruptcy proceedings be the cause to fail emerging from chapter 11 ? It seems that the money that would go into the settlement trust would be (and has already been) the money to fund the bankruptcy proceedings. Obviously I'm not a lawyer. It just seems that the money that can pay past debts has already been identified. That money should go into the trust to close out the legal proceedings and pay debts. It is just perverted that the bankruptcy legal proceedings themselves would be the cause of a business to fail.

I wanted to jump on this statement, but grammatically thinking about it ... I'm ok. All sides could quickly address the issues, say three plus months. That's quick in this process. "Quickly" modifies "address those issues". ... When they start updating (July / August)? Not sure. How quick an update moves thru other hurdles? I wanted to jump on applying it to "get to a plan approval." ... There is no quick to reach a next decision. ... Negotiating doors are re-opened. ... Parties will want a better. A different deal. ... Many law firms looking to somehow re-coup their investments. Simply updating who represents who will take time. ... Add negotiating and agreeing on procedures to negotiate an update would take a month (July). ... Multiple parties posturing during multiple negotiation sessions. New vote? New hearings on updated plan? At least a month for judge to review / write a new decision in holiday season (Nov / Dec)? January plus. Six plus months at least if this pending decision is not some type of conclusion.

My sympathies. It is hard. I wish you the best. ... My only advice is don't let problems linger as such problems poison others experience and can just lead to more issues.

I've seen these too. My paranoia says ... is it an attempt to subvert the settlement? It would be interesting to see if these articles have a common root, as it smells like another manipulation of the legal process. On the flip side ... the BSA bankruptcy news has been quiet. It could be a simple effort to keep the story alive until the decision.