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Paying for Wood Badge. There are some outside groups that will help pay for Wood Badge for their members. I think the AFL-CIO does this. A CO or fraternal group might do the same. Some troops pay for some or all of the cost of Wood Badge. Covering some of the cost is nice, if they can do so. Some instead re-imburse the person for the costs AFTER they complete their ticket. This ensures they finish everything. See if your council has some kind of 'Wood Badge Scholarship'. In some councils, they have a Wood Badge Association and raise money for just this purpose. They might have enought money to help out a couple of scouters that need it (useful in ensuring that scouters from 'low-income' areas can gain the benefits of Wood Badge). If your council doesn't have this, encourage them to do so. Typically the scholarship money is raised thru annual Wood Badge breakfasts and sale of Wood Badge patches and stuff. hope this helps.

FWIW, I wrote the FAQ that SR540Beaver cited. Also, the OA has this on their FAQ list. Its ok to wear the OA flap on your Venturing uniform. I do. http://www.main.oa-bsa.org/qanda/qa-35.htm Some choice not to wear it. That's their choice. As its ok to wear, do not hassle those that do. Not everyone (in an out of the OA) is happy about the policy that prevents female Venturers from getting voting into the OA. Many would like to see this change. Sadly, I don't expect it to any time soon.

Here is an interesting podcast which is an interview with one of the authors on the 'Glenn and Helen' Show: http://politicscentral.com/2007/05/16/the_glenn_and_helen_show_conn.php

"While I don't claim to be very knowledgeable about the early days in Scouting. From what I have read about what happened in England back then it seems to me that in many ways things were a bit of a mess." I don't have as good a feel for the early days of scouting in the UK vs the US. Maybe just not enough has been written about that period. Johnny Walker's site is a great resource. I know when I read Hillcourt's bio of B-P, that if you kind of read between the lines about the various splinter groups and rival groups, that you have to wonder what was going on. While some may disagree, I think one of the good things that West did was to put a stop to that and bring them all into the BSA. Did the BSA cleave to B-P program as closely as they should have? Sadly, no, but that is mitigated by the fact that they DID change (thanks in no small part to Hillcourt) to be more in-line with B-P's program. "This might be because BP had never intended to see Boy Scouts as a stand alone organization." That is true. Its quite clear that was not his intention. The creation of a Scouting organization was something he did not plan for, and may have been a large cause of some of the inter-organization (maybe inter-movement) issues. "While I love the story about William Boyce and being lost in the fog, I have heard that West made a lot of it up?" Um, yes, sadly. This was one of the big revelations (to me) with Rowan's work. There is a small element of true (very small. itty bitty), but its mainly fiction.

Anyone seen this new book recently released in the US? It was first published in the UK last year, and became a best seller. The authors, brothers Conn and Hal Iggulden, have come out with an American edition of this work. I first heard about it when Conn was interviewed on the Colbert Report (you can see the interview on-line at Comedy Central's 'motherload' area). The book on amazon.com has a good interview with the author. It strikes me as a sort of 21st century version of Beard's American Boy's Handy Book or B-P's Scouting for Boys. I found that there is a website for the book: http://www.dangerousbookforboys.com/ There are also two trailers for the book on YouTube, both done in the UK. I think the 2nd one a bit better: (2nd one is also on Amazon). This is what one of the authors says: (taken from amazon.com page on the book): "I am [a father] myself and I think we've become aware that the whole "health and safety" overprotective culture isn't doing our sons any favors. Boys need to learn about risk. They need to fall off things occasionally, or--and this is the important bit--they'll take worse risks on their own. If we do away with challenging playgrounds and cancel school trips for fear of being sued, we don't end up with safer boys--we end up with them walking on train tracks. In the long run, it's not safe at all to keep our boys in the house with a Playstation. It's not good for their health or their safety. ... It isn't just a collection of things to do. The heroic stories alone are something we haven't had for too long. It isn't about climbing Everest, but it is an attitude, a philosophy for fathers and sons. Our institutions are too wrapped up in terror over being sued--so we have to do things with them ourselves. This book isn't a bad place to start. " Here is a list of some of the topics in the book: The Greatest Paper Airplane in the World The Seven Wonders of the Ancient World The Five Knots Every Boy Should Know Stickball Slingshots Fossils Building a Treehouse Making a Bow and Arrow Fishing (revised with US Fish) Timers and Tripwires Baseball's "Most Valuable Players" Famous Battles-Including Lexington and Concord, The Alamo, and Gettysburg Spies-Codes and Ciphers Making a Go-Cart Navajo Code Talkers' Dictionary Girls Cloud Formations The States of the U.S. Mountains of the U.S. Navigation The Declaration of Independence Skimming Stones Making a Periscope The Ten Commandments Common US Trees Timeline of American History I have the book on order, but it hasn't shown up.

"epalmer, if you're re-working the West article on Wikipedia, I encourage you to check your sources carefully. That Wiki article has several factual mis-statements, making it somewhat unreliable. " Oh? I haven't checked the article, but I know I did a lot of fixup work on it, based on the Rowan bio. I'll have to take a look at it again. Anyway, back the topic at hand. Currently I have been reading the "Sword of Truth" series by Terry Goodkind. I don't usually go for fantasy (mainly perfer SF, thriller, and certain 'horror' and mystery authors). This is NOT a series for kids. And it has some vary interesting underlying philosophy to it. This summer, I plan on reading the last Harry Potter book (most like plane reading). Also, the new 2 book series by Peter Hamilton (finally both out in paperback). There are a few series that will have its next work out that I am planning on getting, like Repairman Jack, Dirk Pitt, and a few others.

West... As others have pointed out, get the bio by Rowan. Good read. I've always had mixed feeling about West. While the bio gave me a better understanding of West, my feelings still stand. West was good and bad for the BSA. It was unfortunate that Beard and Seton weren't able to be a better counter to West. It was due to West's hard work that the BSA survived and grew. I also feel that some of the bad organization things about the BSA is due to things West put into place. I am not aware of any issues between West & B-P. I am aware of issues between West & Beard and Seton. (the bio touches on these). I think 'baden' is correct. Whatever the merits of Beard & Seton's program, they would never have been the success of Scouting that the BSA became, in part due to West. I believe that some of B-P's issues with the BSA organization is misplaced. UK society is different from US society. While UK Scouting was able to grow and thrive will mainly volunteers, the BSA very much needed professional scouting to truly grow, or it would have been small and pretty much a regional program.

The Powerpoints come on the CDs which come with the syllabi. They should be marked with the National Supply number. ALL books, booklets, etc that come from National Supply should have a National Supply number (usually 5 digits and maybe a letter), a copyright date, and a printing/revision date. If you are planning on being Pack Trainer, I would recommend that you invest in a copy of the "Leadership Training" booklet (#34169A, 2006). This booklet comes out with a new 'edition' every year (they will increase the letter, and have a printing date). This booklet lists all the current training courses and the syllabi. Its important to have the current editions of syllabi and books, otherwise you will have outdated info. I am not knowledgable about cub scouter training, so will leave any questions about that area to others.

A nearby council has been doing an 'All-Faiths Camporee' for about five or so years. A council I work with, the Catholic Committee organized a retreat for all the catholic scouts that went pretty well. Also, some faiths may do their own religious retreats, usually aimed at units sponsored by their faith (but knowing that not all scouts may be of their faith). I believe the Mormon hold thier own retreats. In Florida for many years, the Methodist Church held an annual retreat for all troops sponsored by them at their main youth camp. Not sure if they still do so.

"I would change the structure of BSA to allow membership have a vote in policy matters. Currently, from my understanding only, COs have a vote but most COs do not exercise it, giving councils/National a free hand to do whatever they please. Change the arrangement so that councils/National report to the membership." While I would still give COs a vote, I agree that ALL BSA Members should have a say in things. This present structure of ONLY COs having a vote is ridulous. I am a member of a parlamentary club (a club which studies parliamentary procedure). When I described how the BSA operates, they felt it strange. A fundamental principle in parliamentary procedure is that members have a vote/voice in their organization. How can you say you are a member when you don't have this? It flies in the face of hundreds of years of tradition. (thanks you, James West). "Currently the LDS church has the most units chartered but do not have the majority of membership. I think this is a misrepresentation of the majority if BSA is gauging policy on the most chairs at the table. " The LDS charteres the most unit. The Methodists are second. The Methodists have the largest number of youth members, the LDS is second.

"I have a nearly-15-year-old Life Scout in my troop who's working on his Eagle Project again after a 1-year delay. His last troop campout was over 1-1/2 years ago (in Oct 2005). He attends about 1/3 of the troop meetings, due to conflicts with other activities. As his Scoutmaster, should I consider him to be "active" for the purposes of rank advancement to Eagle Scout? Why or why not?" While your concern is valid (most organizations clearly define active membership to mean attending a minimum # of meetings/events), this question has come up every so often on-line. Per National, their only definition of 'active' is 'registered in the troop'. As far as they are concerned, if this boy is on the troop roster, they are active. If push comes to shove, and you denie this boy advancement and its appealed, National will go with the above definition.

On the Venturinglist on Yahoo, there was some heavy discussion about trying to organize a National Venturing event. BTW, the main focus was less on what crew's program is, but on what the Venturers want. Just because your crew is not 'high adventure', should not mean that the members may not want to participate in activities like a ropes course, white water rafting, etc. The aim was to come up with a set of activites that would appeal to a wide range of Venturers, regardless of thier crew focus.

The clothes need to be wet. If you have the right cloth, the wet clothes can hold water for a period of time. I've used t-shirts when I've inflated and floated around the pool. As to the pants. You need to zip & button them, and tie knots in the ends of the pants legs (this keeps the air from escaping). Then you catch air thru the waist opening and hold it closed. I'm sure there should be pictures in the merit badge pamphlet as well as on-line.

"Out of curiosity - what would you wear the OA hat pin on? A hat pin w/o a hat seems to be akin to a smile without a face.... " On one of the various baseball-style hats. The campaign and expedition hat are seen as 'uniform items', hence why you don't cover them in pins and the like. While I do purchase hat pins, I rarely wear them. My flap, arrow ribbon, and (when appropriate) sash are fine to indicate my membership in the OA.

Am a little surprised by some of the answers. Any way. Your son should be given a list of what he needs during the Ordeal. In my area, the 'ordeal' lasts from Friday night to the induction ceremony on Saturday night. After this, your son can sleep in a tent/sleeping bag, etc on Saturday night. (I wish I knew that when I went thru the OA years ago...) Please don't think that means he leaves on Saturday night. He should stay until Sunday for the lodge meeting, etc. (this is the norm around here). Am a little tired of people coming to the Ordeal and leaving after the ceremony. While the 'ordeal' is over, the Ordeal Weekend goes thru Sunday and everyone should stay till its over.

How about not bothering to wear any pin? I have the expedition hat and do not bother with a pin. BTW, the OA pin is not intended to be worn on the expedition hat. Really the only two options are the First Class pin and the Universal pin.

FWIW. When I was a kid, there was something called 'stich witchery'. It was a gauze like material you could cut out and use to iron on materials, like patches. For awhile I tried to use it on my uniform shirts. I found that: I had to remove the plastic backing from the patches, otherwise they'd fall off, also, the stuff left a reside behind if you removed the patch. Also, the patches would come loose when they went thru the wash, and I had to redo the stichwitchery. Eventually, I gave up and either sewed the patches themselves or got my aunt to do them. Some of the scout shops in the area will sew patches on the uniforms, for a small per-patch cost. BSA now makes available some iron on materials for patches. I've never used them and am frankly am a bit leary of doing so. Now a days, I'll sew my patches on my uniform myself. And I'm a single, middle-aged guy. I taught myself to sew as a kid. Have the kids learn how to do it.

"Historically: OA elections were allowed in Explorer posts, but women were not allowed to be elected. [OA Handbook, 1986]" More history. After a similiar discussion about the OA, I checked my collection of OA handbooks and other resources regarding the election of Explorers into the OA. This is what I gathered: OA elections in Explorer Posts continuted until 1991. July Operation Update announced this was dropped. The OA Handbook indicated the following requirements for membership: 1948 OAHB Requirements- 14 years old, First Class or first Senior Scout rank 1959 OAHB. Any Explorer, regardless of rank (it was this year that Explorer ranks were dropped!) 1965 OAHB. Ditto 1970 OAHB. Ditto 1975 OAHB. Only male Explorer, regardless of rank. Now OA part of Boy Scout division (prior, National OA Committee under Nat Camping Committee)! BTW, Explorers went fully co-ed in 1971. 1980 OAHB. Explorers must hold First Class rank, only male members of Post can vote. 1985-87 OAHBs. Ditto 1989 OAHB. Explorers must hold First Class rank, but all Explorers vote.

"Historically: OA elections were allowed in Explorer posts, but women were not allowed to be elected. [OA Handbook, 1986]" More history. After a similiar discussion about the OA, I checked my collection of OA handbooks and other resources regarding the election of Explorers into the OA. This is what I gathered: OA elections in Explorer Posts continuted until 1991. July Operation Update announced this was dropped. The OA Handbook indicated the following requirements for membership: 1948 OAHB Requirements- 14 years old, First Class or first Senior Scout rank 1959 OAHB. Any Explorer, regardless of rank (it was this year that Explorer ranks were dropped!) 1965 OAHB. Ditto 1970 OAHB. Ditto 1975 OAHB. Only male Explorer, regardless of rank. Now OA part of Boy Scout division (prior, National OA Committee under Nat Camping Committee)! BTW, Explorers went fully co-ed in 1971. 1980 OAHB. Explorers must hold First Class rank, only male members of Post can vote. 1985-87 OAHBs. Ditto 1989 OAHB. Explorers must hold First Class rank, but all Explorers vote.

"Venture Scouts, alright, their are not Crew members, their Venture Patrol members. Not the same thing, apologizes again. " Wrong. As I said before, there is no such thing as "Venture Scouts" in the BSA. Period. Members of Venture Patrols are Boy Scouts. "OGE, as for "let's not mix them", if the Venturers have fulfilled all the equivalent requirements, and meet the age specifications, they are a part/division of Scouting, why not allow those that want to, to join if elected." Again, that's not our decision. I know of many Arrowmen who are Venturers. But for what ever reason, National does not allow for elections of Venturers into the OA. "As for the ladies, they are suppose to be equals, but we are going to throw up barriers? As epalmer points out we already allow females into OA, albeit leaders. So why not the interested V girls. Again if they really want it, they will meet the requirements work along side the boys." Again, not our decision. National has decided. National would be the one to make a change. Not us. I have my suspecious as to the reason for this decision, but as I'm not certain its true, I will not say them. "But since National instituted Venturing as a division of BSA and allowed our better halves in, and they're suppose to be equals, then let's not discriminate. Is this the reason National refuses to let Venturers hold elections, to keep the females out?" Keep in mind it was a while before the BSA opened up the final six adult positions to females. Only after that was done did the OA allow female leaders to become Arrowmen. Some OA lodges very quickly admitted female leaders, and they very soon had female Vigils. Other lodges have not be so...progressive.

"Is there a program for Cub Scouts to go to the Jamboree? " I would doubt it. By and large Cub Scouts don't camp out, certainly not for extended periods. Most of the activities at the Jamboree are for the participants, not the visits. Cubs can visit, but I would doubt there be a special program for them. A better question would be "will there be a program for Venturers to go to the Jamboree?" Many Venturers have been very disappointed that the only place for them at the jamboree has been on staff. They'd like to come as participants.

"There are more advanced awards that can be earned above the Bronze Awards: Outdoor Bronze is half the Ranger Award " While the Outdoor Bronze IS half of the Ranger Award, saying that the other Bronze Awards are half of the other 'expert' Awards is incorrect. The Ranger Awards is comprised of 8 core requirements, and several elective. Get 4 core and 2 electives, gets you Outdoor Bronze. Get all 8 core and a total of 4 (2 more) gets you Ranger. "Sea Scouting Bronze is half the Quartermaster Award " No. Sea Scout Bronze uses the requirements of the Ordinary rank. As such, its 'half way' to Quartermaster, not half of the award. A Sea Scout (and only a Sea Scout) must then earn Able and then Quartermaster. "Sports Bronze is half the Quest Award " "Religious Life Bronze is half the Trust Award " No. These Bronze awards are required for these awards, but they are not half the requirments. There are further requirements to earn them. Doing hald the requirements of Quest or Trust will not get you these Bronze awards. They don't work that way.

"I have some questions and thoughts. If a Crew member use to be a Scout and had achieved 1ST Class, why is he not elegible for OA just because he is now a Crew member?" Because the BSA does not allow OA elections in Venturing Crews. If that crew member obtained OA membership in his troop or team, he may still be involved in the OA, however. This is due to the fact that the OA is now part of the Boy Scout Program Division, which is NOT a co-ed youth program. The Venturing Program Division is separate. "Are not Crew members allowed to work independently of the Scouting Program, on Star, Lifa and Eagle rank without being Troop members?" Male Venturers who have previously earned First Class as a Boy Scout may continue to earn Star, Life and Eagle. This is a continuation of policy that has existed since the 1930s. "Is not the Venturing Program (and Venture Scouts) a division of Scouting just like the Varsity program and Varsity Scouts?" There is no such thing as "Venture Scouts" in the BSA. If you are refering to members of the Venturing program, they are called 'Venturers'. Venturing is a Program Division of the BSA, a division including Venturing and Sea Scouts. Varsity Scouts are part of the Boy Scout Program Division. There is also a Cub Scout Program Division which includes Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, and Webelos Scouts. While all are part of the Boy Scouts of America, they are separate divisions within it. "Why doesn't National Lodge set a requirement that Venturers that are not from Scout Troops, have to achieve the level of Outdoor Bronze Award or Ranger to be elected into OA." As others have pointed out, there is no National Lodge any more. It was done away with in the 1940s when the OA was fully integrated into the BSA. It was replaced by the National OA Committee. The National OA Committee, by the way, is now a subcommittee of the National Boy Scout Committee (originally it was a subcommittee of the National Camping Committee, but was moved over in the 70s). I have heard that there have been proposals within the National OA Committee to open up the OA to Venturers. (supposedly started by the OA youth officers). ALL such efforts have apparently been stopped by the National Boy Scout Committee, in no small part due to the fact that the Boy Scout Program (of which the OA is now part of) is NOT a co-ed youth program. By opening it up to female Venturers is thus a problem. "Does anyone see a reason that National Lodge and Council can not do this?" Again, there is no National Lodge. While the National OA Committee may like to do so, they are apparently not allowed to by the National Boy Scout Committee. Not sure what you mean by 'Council'. Local Councils have no say in this. I can tell you that there are many within the OA who would like to open up the OA to Venturers, both male and female. There are some discussion groups on this topic. The issue is that until the National Boy Scout Committee gives the National OA Committee the power to make this decision, it will probably not change.

There are rules in Venturing regarding 'dual credit' (using work for multiple award), 'prior credit' (getting credit for prior work, usually restricted to things like have CPR certification), and the like. This is stated in the Venturer Handbook/Ranger Guidebook (if you plan on being a Venturing leader, get this). It should also be stated in the Venturing Leader Manual (again, if you going to be a leader, get this too). AND it should ALSO be clearly stated in the Advancement Guidelines booklet (again, if you are any kind of scout leader, get this!). I'm not going to re-iterate what the others have said. Its all good advice. Finally, please note that Venturing and Venture are not interchangable terms. Venture is a separate program for boy scouts and has nothing to do with Venturing.

eagle97_78 is corret about the many ways that one can be a scouting volunteer. One thing that gets me very frustrated is that too many people seem to assume that if you want to be a scouting volunteer you MUST do so as a unit volunteer. Frankly, this may not be the right job for everyone. It takes the right kind of person to be a unit-level volunteer, plus there is many times a higher time committement for these jobs then other positions. Why are so many unwilling to allow those who can't be unit-level volunteers be INSTEAD volunteers at the district or council-levels? Why instead rely on unit-level volunteers to ALSO be volunteers at the district or council levels. Does that really help the program? Personally, I think that those who are unit volunteers (especially those who are the key unit leaders) should focus their efforts at that level. (I'm not speaking of barring or preventing unit-level volunteers to also be involved elsewhere. Some can handle it and that's fine.) Allow those people who (for whatever reason- time, ability) aren't able to be unit-level volunteers to be volunteers at the district/council levels. Stop passing over (or ignoring) these people in favor of those volunteers who are (in many cases) already holding 2 or 3 (or more) volunteer positions already. (sorry, just had to vent a little)