Eamonn

I would hope if I was the leader in the wrong site, I would have told the truth. It seems that if I were him that I'd made a big mistake. I would have admitted this and as nicely as I could have asked if it was OK with you if we could stay where we were that night offering to move the next day. If you had said that we could stay and not have to move. You would be my new hero. I hope I would have found a nice way of repaying you. Maybe an invite to our campfire, at which I would have again admitted my mistake and publicly thanked you and the Troop for being so kind and understanding. (Failing that a round of ice cream or a couple of pizzas might have been in order?) I would hope if I were you I would have done what you did. When the Scouts came to me with their plans to go get the other Troop. I hope that my BSA halo would be really shining as I gave my little chat about living the Scout Law and what Scout spirit is all about. Be sure to take notes so when you meet St. Peter at the Pearly Gates you can remind him! Eamonn.

Beavah, Somehow, someway, along the way you lost me. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/FAQ.aspx "Question: Once a volunteer is registered and approved as a merit badge counselor, is that registration for life? Answer: Approvals for merit badge counselors and all other adult volunteer positions are valid for one year only and must be renewed annually." Ea.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Lisabob The first year the then new course came along, I was serving as Troop Guide. The course was held at Camp Mountain Run near Du Boise PA. The Council is fortunate in having a donor with deep pockets who I think is a retired architect. The facilities were first rate. Unlike most Councils who build great buildings and then furnish them with whatever castoffs can be found. Everything was really nice. Later that same year I attended a Wood Badge Cluster meeting. For some reason Greater Pittsburgh Council had been invited. (Strange as they are not in a cluster) Greater Pitt has two camp sites that are both in our Council (Our Summer Camp is within the boundaries of the Council next door? Go figure!!) Heritage Scout Reservation is really nice. I have staffed NCS Cub Scout Day Camp training's at Heritage. They also have Camp Twin Echo. They had just presented a the course in the dining room at Camp Twin Echo, on the wooden benches. When I was asked to be a WB Director, I fist looked for a non-scout facility for the first weekend. I was very tempted to use a local Mennonite Church Center. ( http://www.laurelville.org/index.html#start) But this would have really pushed up the cost. So I used our Summer Camp. We had a new building, but as is normal in the Council no money had been allocated for furnishing. The chairs I think at one time had been used by a local funeral home and when the mourners found them too painful they had been donated to the Council. At about the time I was preparing for the course the OA Lodge was thinking of making a donation to the Council. After a word in the Lodge Advisor's ear and a chat with the Lodge chief, the donation was new chairs and tables. The Lord moves in mysterious ways! Eamonn.

The Council I'm in has in its infinite wisdom done its best to provide pavilions at all of the sites on Council owned camps. One camp is used mostly in fact almost entirely for Summer Camp Camping. When Troops arrive, the tents are already up, over platforms. (Setting them platforms in place is a job I really hate!) The fire-ring is in place and the pavilion with a cement floor and a couple of picnic type benches is in place. Scouts use the tables as a desk when writing stuff that is needed for MB's, as a work table. At times it is used as a meeting place for the PLC and on Parents night it doubles out as a place to hold the Troop Buffet. The other camp is used by Troops at weekends. In the winter I have seen units use tarps to cover the sides, providing a shelter from the weather and again the Scouts use the tables as a work bench. More often than not, the Patrols are camping as Patrols and the adults have the pavilion. At times using it as a kitchen shelter or depending on the program offered as a dining shelter for Scouts who might not be cooking in Patrols. Most of the sites are not far from the parking lot! "Car Camping" does seem to be the norm in our area. At least as far as Troop camping goes. We are fortunate to be very close to a good many State Parks, which offer great opportunities for hikes and Patrol activities. I think the pavilions are provided more for Troop use than Patrol use. When I was a SM, we had a big frame tent which we used in much the same way when we took the Troop away. When a Patrol went car camping they used a dining fly. Eamonn.

As things stand right now. Because he is no longer a MBC? The book answer is of course he isn't able to sign off on any MB's. The best thing might be for him to re-register as a MBC, complete what he started but make it known that he is not available to counsel any more Scouts. Eamonn.

As a rule someone who can go over projects is at the R/T meeting. In fact we hold ESBOR's on the night of the R/T. But this isn't when the District Committee meets. Most times I have found that when someone isn't returning my calls, messages -Whatever? There is a reason. Maybe not always what I might think is the best of reasons! A reason never-the-less. I have at times had to deal with people who are shall we say "Less than helpful"? When this happens I have found the best way to deal with them is to kill them with kindness! Sure it means at times having to bite your tongue. But a big by-product of doing this is for me, a way of rubbing their nose in it. My way of telling them "Hey buddy even if you have chosen not to live up to the Scout Law, I'm not going to go down to your level." It is a sad fact that many people in our organization do tend to make up rules as they go along, or are given the wrong information. We see that a lot here in the forum. When this happens, asking where the BSA has stated such a rule? Is the best way to deal with it. Ensuring that the information given is indeed from the BSA, not something that some guy has posted on the net! At times even I have been guilty of posting stuff that I thought was true, only to find out later that I was way off course. As I read what has bee posted it seems to me that this is a case of adults who never learned how to play together. Each is trying to score points and the poor kid with his project has got stuck in the middle. If it wasn't against the Scout Law? Maybe bashing the adults heads together might be the best thing to do! Of course that is never going to happen (I hope!) We all need to be aware that what we do is seen by the youth we serve, what we say is heard. When we put down another adult or making threats? We are not showing a good example or any kind of true leadership. Eamonn.

Can't help feeling that I'm missing something? Here is what I'm understanding. The Lad sent the paperwork in to get an Eagle Scout Leadership Project approved. Did he use the BSA book? This was in October. When I have had to stand in for the District Advancement Chair and a Lad wants this done, I meet with the Lad and we go over what he has put down on paper. Unless the project is something that I know will never meet the approval of the ESBOR or doesn't meet the criteria that Eagle Scout Projects should meet. (Yes this has happened.) I will offer my suggestions about what changes need to be made. More often than not, working with the Lad we go about making the changes then and there. While I know Districts do things there own way and each District can do things differently. I do find it a little odd that a District Committee would meet when a R/T was going on? I think the reason many of the District Committee Members may have sounded distant? Is because they more than lightly had no idea what was going on. I'm now serving on the District Committee as Membership Chair, I have no idea what the Advancement Chair or Advancement Committee are up to. The write up was sent in October. When in October? October 31st? Where was it send? People have send things intended for me to the Council Service Center. The nice Lady there has held them for me expecting that I will pop in and I haven't popped in! The DE has seen that there is something there for me and taken it saying that he will see me at a meeting. Then one of us isn't at the meeting. Or he adds it to the pile of stuff that lives in the trunk of his car and only remembers that he has it after I have left and we have a high speed chase which any James Bond movie would be proud of. November is a strange month! (I was born in November!) We have Veterans Day, a holiday and we have Thanksgiving a holiday and the Friday after Thanksgiving another Holiday for some (Me anyway!). That entire week is a "Lost Week". December can be hard on Scouting. Not only do we have the holidays, but in our area we can have snow. After a rough ride to work, a hard day at work and then a rough ride home, I'm happy to stay home, put my slippers on and pet the dogs. Dealing with Scout stuff that might entail me leaving my nice warm cozy home defiantly takes second place. January? It takes about a week to get over the holiday, take down the tree and get the house back to where it should be. It's still cold and chances are there is more snow then there was in December. I'm really lost when I read: "The scout spent 2 months working on his detailed write-up, reviewing with me as he progressed." I don't have a project work-book at hand. But if the Lad wrote six words each day for sixty days? He'd have ran out of space. My feeling is that it wasn't so much the detailed write up that was at fault? But more what was in the details? Of course I don't know that. "I was told by council advancement that it's my fault because I got involved" Maybe just maybe? When the "reviewing with me as he progressed." Was going on the project became more your project and less of the Scouts? The project is an Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project, when adults take over the leadership part of it is lost. I have no idea what ""National prohibits plant removal in Eagle Projects" Is about? Maybe if you posted more details? What recourse do I have to force the removal of this committee ? Not sure which Committee you want removed? But each and every COR can attend the District Committee Meeting. He can voice the concerns about anything he feels unhappy about at this meeting. Once a year a new slate of Officers is voted in at the Annual Meeting. He or she has a vote. "How can I force the committee to justify their decisions/actions ?" Again the COR can ask this at a District Meeting or at the Council Annual Meeting. "Should I get Child Protective Services involved ?" Clearly you are upset. But if you look up the services that Child Protective Services offer I think you will find that clearly nothing that has been done to this Scout is anything that comes under the services they offer or can do anything about. While it does look like some things and some areas do need looked at and could be improved upon. You also need to look at things that you and the Troop might do differently. I would suggest that: 1/ Always use the Project Work Book. 2/ Never send the book anyplace. When a project needs signed off make an appointment (Have the Scout make it!) To meet with the person in charge of doing the signing. 3/ Allow the Scout to do everything. - It might not be perfect or the way you or his Father might have done it, but it's his project. He is the one showing his leadership ability. 4/ Be very careful about using the word abuse. For most of us volunteers it is a word we hate to hear. It makes us think that a child has been physically or sexually abused or harmed. 5/Be even more careful about talking about involving outside agencies who really do not and can not do anything. Scouting is all about relationships. If I think that you are a nice fellow who has gone out of his way at time to help and do things for me? There is far more chance that I'm going to put decorating my Christmas tree on hold and leave my nice warm house to go and meet with a Scout from the unit you serve. Than if I think your the guy who at one time wasn't very nice. 6/ If you do want to follow up on what you think has been done wrong here. Provide your COR with the full details and allow him to present it all to the District Committee. Allow what comes from this meeting to be whatever it is. If you decide to make some kind of a "Cause" Or a vendetta? My guess is that nothing good will come of it. Eamonn.

Scouts UK has a lot of good and useful information. You might want to visit: http://scouts.org.uk/bullying Bullying is never a good thing and can in some extreme cases lead to youth suicide, which at this time is at epidemic levels Eamonn

I bumped into my pal Ben yesterday. I like Ben a lot. He is a nice older guy, who seems to have been around forever. I have a photo of the two of us taken at our local Scout Camp in 1977. Ben has been with 133 all this time, I'm not sure exactly how long. His family are now raised, his sons are about my age. While he is active in his church and the VFW, 133 is and has been a very big part of his life. He has serves as ASM,SM and is now serving as the COR. 133 is in the small town next to where I live. I'm told that many years back there were six or seven different units in the town, but for the past 20 years or so 133 has been the only show in that town. The town is slightly bigger than the one I live in. Where We have about 4,700 they have about 5,200 people. Right now our town is down from having nine different organizations chartering units to only six. 133 has up until the past couple of years been one of the stronger units in the Council, with a thriving Pack along with a very strong Troop. Sadly things are not going well. The Leadership just isn't there. About a year ago I talked with the R/C church in that small town and we got a new Pack. In fact it was just a Tiger Den. We started with eight kids and lost two of them. This year they have a Wolf Den of six and a Tiger Den of nine. The kids in this new Pack are having a great time. Meanwhile at the last District meeting Ben gave a COR report saying that the CM "Forgot" about that months Pack meeting!! When we met yesterday he chewed my ear off telling me that a big reason why Pack 133 was not doing well was my fault for starting the new Pack. As I say I like Ben, he was a close friend of my Father-in-law and shares the same birthday and date as my Mother-in-law. Much as I might have felt like telling him to go pound salt! I didn't. I did point out that many of the leaders that 133 have on their charter are not active. The guy listed as being the CM feels that he is just filling in until someone else comes along. He was CM when his son was a Cub Scout and I took the Lad to the 2005 Jamboree, so he has to be about 17 or 18. I'm not ever sure if a new unit is going to make it or not. I do know that success as a rule breeds success. Even when the small town I live in had nine Packs, one Pack had over 70 Cub Scouts. The goal for most DE's is to make Quality District. The membership requirement is to end the year being plus one. One more Cub Scout, one more Boy Scout, one more Venturer and one more unit. As a rule in the District I serve we lose about 150 Cub Scouts a year, about 20 Boy Scouts and a few Venturers. We have lost as many as six units and as few as none. The goal of plus one very much depends on what has gone on in the past year. Back when I was District Chair. I was willing to accept that losing the youth members was more or less a given. My thinking was that there wasn't very much I could do about it. But losing a unit! This was just not acceptable. We as a District had enough people to ensure that this should never happen. In ten years we made Quality nine times. Taking Scouts from one unit to another unit? Really serves no or little purpose. At the end of the day the membership count for the District is the membership count. Taking kids from a strong unit which provides a program which will keep them is better than taking them away to join a new unit which may or may not be around. The unit is a unit! For the DE to end up plus one, the new unit can get away with having the minimum number of members. Sometimes the reason for starting a new unit has nothing to do with the DE. There are organizations who want to be involved with the BSA as a way to serve the kids in that organization. I've had a preacher who wasn't able to get on with the leadership of the Pack the church chartered allow the Pack to move on and find a new CO. Then a year later contact me about starting a new Pack. All to often we volunteers forget that the BSA is only half of what is going on. As for my relationship with our professional staff? I will whenever and wherever possible work with and go through volunteers. Volunteers tend to have the same goals as I have. If there is a problem with a new unit being started on the doorstep of another? The people I'd talk with are the District Membership Chair and if I was getting no where there I'd talk with the District Chairman. Eamonn.

One of the 2005 Jamboree Patrols was the Oompa-Loompas. One of the ASM's found a picture of an Oompa-Loompa, copied it and had the one of the professionals order it. The patches came. Soon after the Pro called me saying that the patch company owner was upset, it seems his son of the owner, who took the order hadn't checked the copyright! Sadly it was a little too late. The patches had been given to the Scouts and many had them on their uniform. This would have been a real case for the uniform police. Ea.

Wagion Lodge 6 does not require Scouts to be accompanied with unit Scouters. The Lodge is part of the Council.(Not tied with a CO.) The SE has appointed a Lodge Adviser to the Lodge and a Professional is at every weekend. Nearly all the Scouts who attend OA weekends don't come as Troop members. I wonder what happens where there is a Troop in which none of the adults are members? Ea.

Randy, The first part of the course is very hard on the backside! The course used to be seven days. With it now only being six, it does mean that a course can be planned to accommodate most religions especially religions that observe a strict sabbath day. The idea when the new course came out was that the first part of the course not be held at a camp. This didn't happen as the cost of renting a facility for the course was too much and most Councils had a place that could be used anyway. I have heard horror stories of some Councils using Dining Halls and having the participants sit on wooden benches!! Man! That would hurt!! As for the breaks? Most of the Scouter's I know just love to shoot the breeze. Give them a ten minute break and you will be lucky to see them in about twenty minutes or so! Stick with it, the worst is over. Who knows? Maybe for the next weekend it will be wet and windy and everyone will be rushing in for the next wonderful presentation??? Ea.

When people start going on about "The Liability Question". My first question is "How many Scouter's have been sued for things that have had to do with their Scouting activities?" I have been around for a while, been a lot of places, talked with a lot of Scouter's and have only ever met one. That case was later dropped. I do believe that proper training in certain areas does help prevent a lot of law suits. I have never really been sure if "I didn't know!" is better than "I forgot!" I was driving around the area where I live a few weeks back and it seemed that just about every church in our area had a sign up inviting kids to come and attend their Vacation Bible School. While I'll admit I have never been a part or ever been involved in a Vacation Bible School. I did at the time think to myself how very much these are to the Cub Scout Day Camps that we offer. My first thought was how much cheaper they are! Most of what is offered is free! We charge $45.00. My second thought was about all the stuff we go through to offer a Day Camp. Yes I know all about the shooting sports, but many of the other Standards that are required really do seem a little over the top. Many years back I was on NCS Staff for Cub Scout Day Camp. That was when there was one course for Camp Director and one for Program Director. Way too much time was spent on the budget. Many of the people there were terrified that "The Inspectors" would swoop down and close the camp. No one seemed to give any thought as to what to do with a couple of hundred kids when most of the parents would be at work? Can things happen to kids at Day Camp? Of course it can happen. We moved the location of the District Day Camp because the park we held it in was to close to a big river. I'm all for us having the trained people we need to get the job done. Having them at camp when I was the Camp Director made me feel better. Made me feel better because I want to keep our kids safe, not because I was worried about the liability question. Eamonn.

So far no one has asked me for my opinion. For which I'm really grateful. As I kinda think that I'd stutter a lot, feel a little dumb and have to say that I'm a little overwhelmed by what is going on. For many years, as a family we were happy with just ambling along. The hospital where HWMBO had Blue Cross /Blue Shield as a benefit. As time past things changed, we paid for part of the insurance and the Blue Cross /Blue Shield became Blue Cross /Blue Shield Keystone. Which took away some of the choice we had about where we could go and who we had to talk to before we went. Still what we paid for the family really wasn't a lot of money. The co-pays tended to be more of a nuisance than a hardship. I have to admit that I thought that we were sitting pretty. Then HWMBO got sick. By this time Blue Cross /Blue Shield Keystone was gone and the plan offered by the hospital where she works was a Home Host Plan. Which I thought made a lot of sense. It made people use the services that the hospital offered. I was thinking of retiring. Just playing with money and real estate. I thought I might buy an ice cream store. Our insurance has been great all the time she has been sick. It paid for everything, all the chemo all the drugs, doctors bills. But... She was off work. For the first six months we paid what we would have paid had she been working. Less than $150 a month. After the first six months we found that we had to pay the group rate $950 a month. Thankfully she wasn't off work for very long after the first six months. But... If she had been off for a year, we would have found ourselves without any insurance. I don't know how many companies would have wanted to insure her? Thats when I decided that my retirement plans would go on hold. I now have really good insurance, it costs me 4% of what I earn. It covers everything, dental, glasses, hearing aids, the whole nine yards. Better yet, if I can put in 15 years (Yipes!!) I can keep it when I retire. - If I live that long. The idea of not having health insurance scares the bejebbers out of me. So much so that I'll put in the time. I think one of the reasons I'm so scared is because I was born and bred in the UK. Sure the system isn't perfect and I do much prefer having what I have here. But there is a lot to be said for the peace of mind knowing that if you are sick, money isn't a big worry. I know very little about the programs that we have here in the USA for the poor? I have never had to use them. I know from looking at the bills that came in for HWMBO chemo treatments (About $35,000 a month) That I could go through a lot of my money in a very short time. Then of course there is who pays for the National Health Service in the UK? I don't have all the facts. I do know that anything that can be taxed is taxed and somethings are taxed a lot! Petrol is costing about one pound six pence a liter (3.78 liters = 1 US Gal. British Pound = 1.67 US$. If my math is right that's about $6.70 for a gal of gas!) A pack of cigarettes is about $10.00. Value Added Tax (a nasty sales tax!) Which was reduced from 17.5 per cent for 13 months down to 15% will return to 17.5 per cent on 01/01/10. If you have income over 37,400 be ready to be taxed at 40%. I don't know. But if there is one thing that Americans really dislike? It's paying taxes. I really don't think the average guy in the street who now has insurance is going to be willing to exchange what he has now for higher taxes? I think most of us hate the idea that some poor soul can lose their home and be faced with bankruptcy just because he or she got sick. But with the mountain of debt that the USA is now in, adding more right now? Is not such a great idea. Eamonn.

Over the years I have worked with a lot of DE's. Most of them were new on the job. The reason why? The District I serve is the smallest in our Council, but we tend to have volunteers who have been around for a long time (Some it seems forever!). So, we are kinda like a Training Ground for new DE's. Not to change the subject. Sometime back our Council hired a fellow who was supposed to act as some kind of Program Aide /Manager. I was at the Board Meeting when the then SE outlined what his duties were to be and introduced him to the Board. I knew the guy, in fact the son of his significant other had been a Cub Scout in the Pack when I was CM. After about a year or so it became clear that this guy wasn't doing his job. Myself and a few other board members, were not sure what he was doing? But knew it wasn't what we had been told. Times changed,the SE was fired and it was felt that we no longer needed his services. Without wishing to seem hard or harsh, I wasn't that sad o see him go. Sure I felt that we hadn't done him any favors. But to me it seemed that he just had never done the job he was hired to do. One night while shooting the breeze with a couple of Council Vice Presidents, I was told that not long after he had been hired the SE changed his job description. I felt bad for all the bad things I'd said which were really out of order. While I think the DE needs to get a clear idea of what he is to be doing and do a better job of communicating it. It would also be a good idea if the people who seem o want to voice their concerns to whoever it is in the Council they are voicing these to?? Were to ask for a copy of his job description. If after reading it over, it seems clear that this guy is not doing his job? Then taking steps to have him removed might well be in order. But my guess is that this poor guy is trying to do too much and maybe has more on his plate than he can manage. Eamonn

Having served as SM in 2001 and 2005. I was more than happy to set the little darlings off on their merry way after breakfast. The only requirement placed upon them was that they had to be with another Scout from the Troop. This wasn't as easy as it might seem. Having two Scouts who want to do the same MB? We did have a couple of Lads who were happy to work on MB's. There was a lot of complaints that the people staffing the MB's were allowing non-jamboree participants take the badges and the Scouts who had paid were being turned away. When this was brought up at a sub-camp meeting. The answer was that as many of the MB Staff were not BSA members it was a little unreasonable to ask them to police who was and who wasn't a participant. Even though the participants all had IDs. OJ didn't bother with the midway when he went as a participant in 2001 and didn't have time when he went back as a youth staff member in 2005. My feelings? Hey whatever rocks your boat! Eamonn. (OK I did feel that way too much time was spend on patch trading and the PLC did ask that the entire Troop take a day off from trading. That seemed to work well.)

Working where I do, for the PA. Department of Corrections, I can or could bring up a lot of stuff about just about anyone. Most of it is public record. (Yes my failing to stop at a red light 3 years ago is still up there!) Some of the people I work with, seem happy to spend hours looking up stuff on just about anyone and everyone. Most of the time, I don't even bother looking up the inmates I'm working with unless someone gives me a problem. The truth is that I don't trust any of them. No one is where they are for singing out of tune in the church choir. I laugh when one of them says to me "But Mr Walsh, I wouldn't lie to you! Still I think I do a better job not knowing what they have done. At times what they are "In for" is common knowledge. This is especially true of guys who are in for child molestation or guys who are in for life. The other day a co-worker found a sex offender who lives a few doors down from a house I own. He really wanted to be sure that I knew. I now know. But I don't know what I'm supposed to do with the information. I have friends who have been caught driving over the limit and been charged with DUI.A few of these are very heavy drinkers who very well might have a real problem, but a couple just were at the wrong place at the wrong time and made an error of judgment. I have had people who worked for me that have come to work with signs of having been hit, by their partner. So far HWMBO has never felt the need to give me a whack. Not that at times I might have needed it! I haven't whacked anyone since I was about 14! Mainly I think be cause I wasn't very good at it. Some couples do know how to push each others buttons. I watched as my brother and his wife went through a very messy divorce, which ended up making a couple of law firms a lot richer! While my brother never laid a hand on his wife, he was at the time drinking a lot and who knows if she had been around? What might have happened? I really don't feel it is my job or my role to police the world or pass judgments on people. I'm OK leaving that to the people who have to do it. Like a lot of things in life there are no hard and fast rule of what I'd do and when I'd do it. If a parent came to camp to pick up his son and it was clear that he wasn't able to drive? That would be one thing, but I'm not sure if that one time would want to make me ever allowing him to pick up his son or drive other Scouts? The truth is that I don't know what I'd do or how I'd go about doing it. I know that if I knew a Scout was living in a home where the parents were dealing crack? I'd have no problem calling the police and would be happy to let them and the courts do their thing. I sure as heck wouldn't want my kid going to that house. I think I might also warn others that this wasn't a good place for their kids. But my doing this would be me being me not me being a member of the BSA. Eamonn

Been a lot of talk about Advanced Training here in the forum. I posted that if we did a better job of teaching the basics, people could build upon them and if they felt the need go and take training's in areas that they might want to specialize in. I do think that the training's we now offer can prepare a new leader to become a valuable asset to a normal everyday, run of the mill Troop. - Whatever that might be? Now we are looking at taking parents on Troop camping trips. I'm wondering what would happen if we asked parents to attend training before we allow them to attend these trips? If they have the time to go to camp? Surely they have the time to get trained? Eamonn

Maybe I should spin off ? But ... (I haven't!) I got a little lost with all the dates and details when I read what was posted. This happens a lot and I do at times have to re-read some posts a few times. I was surprised when I seen that a nine-year old posted what was posted. On one hand I was shall we say, a little suspicious. But then I thought about the old TV comedy Dr. Douglas Doogie Howser MD. While I have never met any really "Gifted" kids, I'm sure there are some out there. (Yes I watched the Jeopardy! Kids Week. I really don't care who posted what was posted. I don't care how old or young they are. But it does bring up the question, what or how do we deal with kids that are... "Over Achievers " ? It's all too easy to just quote the rules and stuff that are laid down. But if we are really taking the idea of making the program fit the boy and not having the boy fit the program? To heart, then maybe the rules and stuff just don't apply. Ninja If you are what and who you say you are! I think having a parent talk with your local Scout Executive is the best way to deal with your problem. I'm not sure what he can or can't do. But if anything can be done? He is the guy to talk with. Eamonn.

I know that I might be the odd man out. But I don't like and really don't want parents on camping trips. I think there is a reason why we select and train leaders. I'm not sure I would have made a good SM for my own kid! I was Cubmaster for a couple of years when he was a Cub Scout and try as I might, when a group with him it were doing something that they ought not to have been doing, his name was the first that came into my head. I felt I was at times being unfair to him and was maybe even picking on him. Even with a large Troop, I found things worked out well with a Leadership Team of adults of about five or six. Guys who knew what they were doing and when to do it. Guys who could work together with no fear of anyone treading on anyones toes or upsetting anyone. Most Scouts (Not all) Tend to act differently when their parents are around. Especially Scouts ho are new to Scouting, with parents who are also new. It seems to me that the main reason for bringing a herd of parents is transportation. I do have to admit that living where we do we are spoiled having so many camping areas and areas that can be used for Scouting activities close at hand. Driving to the area and dropping a son off, going home and then returning is not a big deal. Even when I had a Troop in down town London, where a lot of the parents didn't have cars or when we were traveling a long way we found ways of overcoming any obstacles. If you need more leaders? Have the committee form a Nominating Committee and select the right people then go about training them in both the ways of the BSA and the ways of the Troop. If the Troop needs more support than maybe people can be selected to serve on the committee. But having a bus load of parents tag along to camping trips (One a year might be OK!) Is my worst nightmare. I'm a Scout Leader, not a Scout Parent Leader. I do like parents, I am one and had a couple myself. But not at camp. Eamonn.

We don't have a Ranger. The Campmasters come under the Council Camping Committee. Most of the guys are super nice guys, who really do have the good of the Scouts at heart. Sad to say we have a couple of miserable old goats. The type that not only want to see each and every rule, no matter how silly the rule might be? Followed, but at times add a few new rules or their interpretation of the rule. I'm on the Campmaster list. Living near one of the camps, when no one signs up for a weekend. I open up the site, turn on what needs turned on. Meet the unit when they arrive and try to be there when they depart. Most of the Troops that use the site have used it a lot. So there really isn't much to do. Not enough to make me want to stay for the weekend. Every now and then the Council Camping Chairman and myself will sign up for a weekend and will spend the time cooking and righting all the wrongs of the world. We are very close friends and I enjoy the time we spend together. He really is just a big kid who loves kids and goes out of his way to do what he can for them. But I have seen him after he caught some young Scouts out in the rain late at night in their underwear, because their tents were flooded and the SM was sleeping!! Not be so nice to the SM!! We are trying to make the camp more Patrol friendly. The aim is to get more Patrols camping as Patrols. The Campmaster will be tasked with keeping an eye on theses Patrols while not interfering. We have seen that most of the Patrols that do come don't come with anything to do! No real program, just coming. This tends to lead to problems when they have too much time on their hands. We are trying to get together equipment that the Patrols (Or Troops) can sign out that will help avoid this. We have a fairly good orienteering course and the Scouts can use compasses that we have provided. I'm trying to get a pioneering store, where we have plans and the stuff needed to build different projects. The problem is that the Scouts don't have the skills needed and if we are not careful the Campmaster will become a little too close to the Patrol almost like a provisional Scoutmaster. It's a very fine line. We do get some out of Council Troops, mainly in the winter. They are coming to use the ski resorts that are close and just need a cheap place to stay. The big thing for Campmasters are knowing the site, what is where and how it works. Knowing what to do in case something goes wrong. Study the emergency plans. Follow all the points of the Scout Law. While of course the safety and well being of the people in camp is always number one. It is important not to be too judgmental! Just because the Troop or the Patrol is not doing something the way you think it should be done, doesn't mean that they want or need you to go sticking your nose in. I was in camp one weekend when a Troop did nothing but toss a football around in the camping lot. I seen it as a waste of time, but when I talked with a few of the Scouts, they seemed to be having a wonderful time! Eamonn.

At times when I read the stuff that is posted in the forum, I can't help thinking that we all might be guilty of taking what we do a little too seriously. Kids join Scouts to have fun. We the adults if we are playing this game as it should be played have little or no control about the Lads who join the Troop that we serve. Most of us (The adults) are in this for the long haul. It always strikes me as strange that the big problems we face today will in five, ten or maybe twenty years be the great stories that we will retell around the campfire. Everyone will make mistakes. Adults, kids, parents -Everyone. Hopefully we will learn from them and move on trying not to make the same mistake again. We do tend to become so wrapped up in what is happening now, that we forget that we are building the foundation of something that we hope will be around for a very long time. One goofball P/L is not going to stop the world from turning. In fact we can all learn from his "Goofiness"! Chances are that this Lad might never be the worlds greatest P/L. But he is one of "Your" Kids! At times I'm sure you will feel like pulling your hair out and maybe his as well! But again you are so very lucky that this goofball is willing to spend some of his youth with you. You can watch him as he grows and develops. He will make you smile, he will at times touch your heart. HWMBO pulled out our wedding album the other day. I'm not sure why? We will have been married for 27 years. There is a few photos of us leaving the church. The Scouts on their own decided to form an honor guard. I looked at the faces of all them Lads. I can remember their names! I can tell silly stories about the goofball things each of them did! I only keep in contact with about half a dozen of them. But I know that my life is so much better for having known all of them and I'm so very grateful that they allowed me the opportunity. Eamonn.

Seems strange to say it now, but I really didn't want to attend the first course that I attended. I had at the time been selected as an Assistant Scout Leader (ASM) For the Greater London Central contingent to the 1975 World Jamboree in Norway. It was "Strongly Recommended" that I get off my duff and attend Wood Badge. At the time, I really was an obnoxious little twit. I really thought that I was the cats whiskers. I was a Queen's Scout, had the D.of E Gold Award. I seen the course as an opportunity for me to highlight how good I was. When I now read that some people think that there is a need for more Scouting skills in the Wood Badge course, I smile. I smile because when I went, I was so busy showing everyone how good I was and how much more I knew than they did! That a lot of the course was just lost on me. I must be a really slow learner? As when I was first asked to be a staff member of a course here in the USA, I seen it as being asked to join some kind of elite club! I wanted that third bead. That little piece of wood was all so very important. Thankfully the Scoutmaster who is now my best friend was a lot wiser and a lot more knowledgeable than I was then gave me a friendly kick in the pants and made me see that the course wasn't about me, but was about and for the participants. I went on to serve on staff on a lot of other courses. Sadly some of these were not very participant friendly, staffed by old guys who had done nothing but staff courses and who wouldn't know a Scout if he were to bite them on the tail. I did staff one of the old Cub Scout courses. Back then the Cub Scout course was a Regional course. The staff came from all over the NE -Region. The Cubmaster was a lady from Germany. While some of the staff did know each other from having had worked together before. We as a staff really never jelled nd it seemed that there was some sort of one up man-ship going on. When I was selected to be a Course Director for the new course. I really wanted the staff I had to ensure that the course was all about the participants. I remember at a development weekend asking the staff to leave their egos in their cars! Most of the participants at the new courses I have been involved with already know a good many of the staff. While there are parts of the course that for the enjoyment of future participants are best not shared?? For the most part people who are coming as participants have a fairly good idea of what they are letting themselves in for. For me Scouting is all about fun. Wood Badge should be no different. (Yes! On the course I directed we celebrated the imaginary feast of Saint Stanislaus, complete with lots of cabbage,Kielbasa sausage and dancing Babushka girls!) So far, other than one guy who just didn't get it and didn't return for the second weekend! Everyone I have talked with enjoys the course. The course is a lot of fun. I think the fellowship, companionship and friendship that everyone has help make the course enjoyable. But at the same time there is a lot of good learning taking place. I do think that some people might come a little "Over-prepared"! I have had people who come as participants who have taken ever leadership course known to man! At times these people want to compare the Wood Badge course to the last $2,500 Leadership seminar that they attended. Kinda like when I attended my first course and wanted to highlight how good I was! Some of these people are so wrapped up in letting everyone know that they know it all, that they never allow any part of the course sink in. Which might just show that the other courses they took might not have worked that well! Eamonn.

I have only ever blocked one person.He wasn't around for very long. Think he may have got on his bike and bicycled back to the monastery? The ignore whatever it is did a good job. He was ignored. As a rule, I'm a little like a moth to a flame, even though I know the person is going to be a twit, I still want to see how much of a twit? Eamonn.

My thinking is. We all wear a lot of hats. If as a parent I was uncomfortable with my child visiting someones home? I'd tell him that he couldn't go there. As a Scouter. If the COR said that the CO didn't want any Scouts visiting someones home. I'd do what I was told and follow the instructions given. If as a Scouter I came across the information by some sort of accident. I'd remember that my role/job is to deliver the program. No more, no less. If for some reason I thought or felt the need to tell someone? I'd tell the COR or the Head of the Chartering Organization and I'd follow his instructions. We have to be very careful when and where we stick our noses! There is no way we can save the world or fix every wrong. The youth we serve belong to a unit that is "Owned" by the CO. While I have only known one person in 25 years who was barred from Scouting. I know of at least five people who the background check came back wrong about! One was a local police chief! Eamonn.