Eamonn

I suppose I could post a lot of the ideas that other people have used, but that isn't how the system works. The person you need to contact is your Ticket Counselor. However, you might do well to look over your Wood Badge stuff. Start with the pre-course assignment (the 20 questions.) Think about the answers you come up with. It might be that you see things in a different light now, after the course then you did when you first looked at them or answered them? If so that is OK. Looking at this ought to make you think about your values. Take a minute to look over your Vision and mission. If you are a little unsure about these look over your notes from the very first Troop Presentation. Your ticket items are just goals that will bring you one step nearer to meeting your mission. Try not to look at them as chores that have to be done. My Vision for our Scout District is to deliver the programs of the BSA to as many youth of Scout age as possible. My mission Is to develop and implement plans that will recruit and retain youth membership in our district. I have looked at training. I have looked at membership and recruiting. I have made changes to the way that we recruit. I have contacted parts of the community that are under served either because of geographical or economic concerns. The District has looked at the programs offered at District Camporees. We are looking at ways of improving communications in the district. Many of these can be broken down into "Bite Sized." pieces that could become goals by themselves. Communications could be just developing a district E-Mail list or finding someone to take charge of a web page or even me learning how to go about making a web page. At the end of the day YOU need to look at YOUR vision and YOUR mission, which is based on YOUR values the goals are YOUR goals and it's YOUR ticket. Eamonn.

Needless to say I am with the wise and learned K.S. ED, you might find that the walkie talkies that you are using could or might interfere with the communications that the camp staff have in place. Would you not agree that these are electronic devises? I can't help thinking that we are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Our cell phones are in the world of cell phones very old (3 years) and don't hold a charge of very long. Mine which I rarely use seems to need recharging every second or third day. Summer camp is six days. While I'm in the thinking mode, it also seems to me that in a lot of cases our expectations of our Scouts fall below or short of what should be expected of a Lad who has taken the Scout Oath. I know that I have posted this before but here I go again. Before the last Jamboree I all by myself with no help or input from anyone else decided that for security reasons there would be no CD players allowed. When I met with the PLC, they were very unhappy not only with my ruling, but also how I came to make it. They were right and I was in the wrong. We discussed this for a very little while and said that CD players were allowed, but would only be used on the trip to and from the Jamboree and at night. That the Scout was responsible for his CD player and Cd's. Sure enough when we boarded the bus over half the Scouts were wired for music. As it happened the bus had a video player so everyone ended up watching the movie. I never once seen a Lad wearing his Walkman and the subject never came up again. We need to allow our Scouts the opportunity to live up to and grow into the Scout Oath and Law. Passing a tome of rules and bylaws is not allowing them that opportunity. I remember reading that we are in the business of helping young people make ethical choices over the course of their lifetime. Eamonn.

I have been looking at cots and the cost of cots so that I can pass the information on to the Lads attending the Jamboree. Coleman has what looks like a nice cot for about $45.00 a little less if you sign up for the youth group discount that they offer. Looking through the Sunday paper I seen Gander Mountain also has a nice cot on sale for $43.00. I use a very old Army cot, which a pal of mine gave me many years ago. Our Council camp has old metal cots in the tents.They don't have any mattresses or padding, just the springs. Looking around the camp sites it is funny to see how creative people are in covering these springs. Some bring a mattress, some cover the springs with carpet while others just cover the springs with cardboard. I normally just move their cot into an empty tent and use my own. I had never thought about renting cots out, the idea has a lot of merit. Anything is better then them darn springs. Eamonn.

So Ed are you saying that it is OK if the adults break the rules? Eamonn.

Hops I read all of it!! Sounds as if you had a jolly good time. Any chance that you can go back for a second week? I am having a hard time imagining that you didn't talk for a day and a half. But more power to you. I am really pleased that you had such a good time. Eamonn.

Thanks Bob I echo your sentiments. PBS as part of the News hour on Friday looked at Fathers Day and the word Hero. It went on to say how the word Hero is now very much in your face these days. We see the guys and girls in the military and call them Hero's,we see the images of 9/11 and the firemen and policemen and call them Hero's. All these people are hero's and deserve the title hero. In my book anyone who puts others before him or herself is a hero. Many of us have been blessed in that we have had lot's of people who have been our hero's, we have had leaders in Scouting who we have put our needs before their own, we have friends that we know that if asked will drop everything to lend a hand. Still my greatest hero will always be my Dad. One of my missions in life is to be as good a Dad as he was. Happy Fathers day to all. Eamonn.

Sorry boleta I think that this is more a case of people over stepping their authority. What or who gives the troop committee to tell me the parent what my son can take to camp. It could be that I am a real pain because I know the rules. So before you tell me about Fireworks or other illegal items that are illegal, I am in no way suggesting that my son should go ahead and break any laws or go against any of the rules of the BSA or the place where the camp is located. I did look over the link that you posted showing the bylaws of the unit in which you serve. To be very honest I found most of it very redundant, some of it goes against BSA policy and I know for sure if my son came home with such a document that we would file it and look for a troop that spends time making the program work, not time writing pages and pages of rules. Eamonn.

What is a Trail To Eagle Class? Eamonn.

I have been known in my time to have the odd Adult beverage. However doing so at any uniformed Scout function,on Scout owned property or in the presence of youth members can not and should not ever be allowed or permitted. You need to make this very clear to all those that are going with you. I would have to take a long hard look at what insurance would be in place for these non Scouting participants and pass this information on too them. Not only to cover your tail but also to allow them to make sure that they are covered. How the event came into being does concern me. I keep hearing a little bird telling me that if it's not for the Boys, it's for the birds?? Taking a long hard look at the G2SS never does any harm and following what it has to say is a must. I don't have any problem as to how the Lads get fed. If the goal of the event is to do something and taking time out to cook would get in the way of the goal - Why do it? I could never see Eamonn the Scoutmaster allowing this event. Parent and son events are fine so long as the focus is on the Scouts, from what you have posted this does not seem to be the case. Eamonn.

Thanks Bob. I always say that the only dumb question is the one that you didn't ask!! Eamonn

From the very get go, let me state that I am all for Venturing. I 100% believe that the program has a lot to offer young people and does go a long way to help the BSA meet both the Vision and Mission of the BSA. What follows is my opinion and does not in any way reflect the opinions of the District or Council in which I serve or that of the BSA. 1/ I do not buy into the fact that Venturing is the fastest growing program of the BSA. I believe that these numbers and reports are flawed. Or at least misleading. I say this because I know for a fact that over 80% of the registered Venturers in our District are multiples. (Registered in both a Troop and a Crew.)As a Council there has been some very "Creative" thinking as to what a Venturer really is. When I look over the Methods of Venturing, these "Crews" Might as well be signed up in the Elvis Fan Club as in Venturing. 2/ We need to look at how we start any new unit before we start a new Crew. When we go about starting a new Pack or Troop we follow the steps outlined in Starting a New Unit. We look at the Chartered Organization, Selecting and Training Adults then we look at recruiting youth members.This doesn't seem to be happening in starting a new Crew. 3/The Program is there. Use it. It seems to me that when a new Pack or Troop is formed, the people from the District and Council get out of the way. We promote training, and show where to find the resources that will help the adults deliver the program. We offer people who can be of help. However the delivery of the program in in the hands of the unit. The Crew Advisor is supposed to be training and coaching the Crew's elected officers. 3/ Venturing is a stand alone program. Sure Venturing is part of the BSA. However just as we have activities for Cub Scouts and activities for Boy Scouts with well defined lines we need to stop looking at what is happening in the other programs and deliver the Venturing Program. Just as we don't send our Boy Scouts to Cub World or allow Boy Scouts to race in the Cub Scout Pine Wood Derby. We don't allow Venturers to camp as participants in the National Boy Scout Jamboree or join other Boy Scout Programs. 4/ There is no harm in waiting. Where there is a Boy Scout Troop that has a good program for the older Scouts, maybe in a Venturing Patrol, taking these Lads away from the troop is a dis-service to Scouting.Surely it is in the best interest of all to allow these Scouts to develop their skills in the troop and when the time comes allow them to cross into the Crew brining these skills with them. 5/ You have to want to make it work. I think that it is fair to say that Venturing is not well represented on both the District and Council level. There are a lot of people who would like to see this change. However we need to have people who are willing to sit on the appropriate committees (Training, Camping, High Adventure, Advancement...) to bring about any necessary changes. 6/ Just say No. It might also be fair to say that some of us District and Council types are guilty of twisting a few arms in order to see new units formed. We are guilty of not following the steps needed to start a new unit. It might have just been a little too easy to grab a ASM and recruit a couple of new youth members along with a handful of Boy Scouts of the right age. No real thought was ever given to what sort of program these youth would receive. I know for my part as a District Chairman, that I will do everything that I can not to allow this. I want to be able to sleep well at night. Still there are disgruntled people who are willing to go full steam ahead with the idea of Venturing without any idea of the program, the methods or even the aim. I know that in the District in which I serve, some in fact most of the Crews are a little upset with me for saying and pushing it through the District Committee that Crews are no longer welcome at District Boy Scout Camporees. They are welcome to hold their own events. 7/Not a baby anymore. There are Crews that have got it. These Crews have grabbed the program by the tail and are making it work. If these Crews can why can't others? The argument that this is a program in it's infancy is getting really old. If this were not a Scouting forum there is a phrase that I would use, however it is very un-Scout like so I will refrain from using it. I know that a Venturing program can work, as I was in one many years ago back home in England. It worked because we did Venturing stuff, the Troop did Boy Scout Stuff and yes the Pack did Cub Scout Stuff. Sure we all belonged to the same Scout Group and shared equipment and at times had leaders that crossed over to help in different program areas and sure we invited the older boys from each program to attend some activity that the "Next program" was doing or participating in: Older Cub Scouts visited the troop and older Boy Scouts visited the Venture Unit (Yes it was a Venture Unit in the UK.) Yes there were times when we all worked together on certain projects, mainly service projects each section doing age appropriate activities. But the bottom line was there was 3 different sections delivering 3 separate programs. Eamonn.

It seems that this thread has more to do with Venturing then it has to do with the OA. I will start a spin off. However before I do I feel there is a few points that I want to address. Yes I have served a member of a Summer Camp Staff.I have been active in making improvements to the summer camp program that our Council offers. The Camp has been staffed with both Scout and Non- Scout personnel. While I love nothing better then spending time at camp and do get up there to do some of the much needed maintenance work and work needed to improve the camp facilities. I have to admit to spending more time finding money to improve the camp and improve the pay that we offer the camp staff. This has something to do with peanuts and monkeys. I do understand the Venturing Program. Maybe not as well as I do the Cub Scout or Boy Scout Program. As both a District and a Council I think we are reaching out to make the Venturing program work. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Could be that I'm seeing something that isn't there? But wojuawe you seem a little upset. I think the question "What is a Venture Scout was in reference to the fact that Venturers are not called Scouts. As for the District back-door option, we are in agreement. I have seen District Committee members want to bring others that serve on the District level into the OA as some sort of award or honor, we agree that this is not right. I fail to see why a Venturer has any more commitment to serving on camp staff , then any other camp staff person. I hope that our Scout Exec. Doesn't see that you have camp staffers that are willing to work for $60 or $100.00 a week. He will be paying you a visit to recruit them. I am aware that many of those who do serve on camp staff do so because they love Scouting and the program, however there are a lot of us that love Scouting and the program and due to obligations at home and at work we can't spend the summer doing what we think is the best job in the world and the most fun, many of us would do it for no pay if we could afford it. Camp staff and camp staffers are on the whole very nice people, but please don't set them up as something more then what they are. Eamonn.

I for one am happy with leaving the OA with the Boy Scouts. I really dislike it when people try to use the District as a back-door to gain membership. While I know that it isn't a prerequisite I really like seeing the Boy Scouts who are in camp with their troops being called out or tapped out in front of the other troop members. We do have female members in our Lodge, some are very active and do a great job serving the Lodge. Eamonn

I think that each and every camp has special memories and looking back over the years each group of Scouts and Scouter's do fall "Victim" to that one thing that will be retold around the campfire for many years. Many of these memories are of things that happened when things didn't go as planned and some are just special because you had to have been there. We had a really nice old Scoutmaster that had been in Troop 133 forever. Pete was in his 80s. The camp had built new shower houses, but the old out houses were still standing. Pete went to the old outhouse for a pee. A couple of Scouts from the troop had got on top of the roof and called out, down the vent "Help, Help I've fallen in!!" Poor Pete was unsure what to do. He was peering down the hole of the out house and of course couldn't see anyone. Again he heard the call "Help, Help" He rushed back to the troop camp site to get help. When he got back the Lads let him in on what they had done. He was a good sport about it, he just shook his head and said something about darn kids. I remember getting the troop on a train in London we crossed over to Belgium and traveled through the night early the next morning I was woken by the troop looking out the train windows. We had just entered the Swiss Alps, the Scouts were so excited and taken with the beauty of their surroundings. I remember teasing one little Lad who upon seeing a cow, made a mooing sound. I told him that Swiss cows didn't moo, only English cows mooed and he needed to moo in French. He gave me a puzzled look and then worked out that I was pulling his leg. He gave me the greatest smile. Eamonn.

Just wondering what qualifications the Merit Badge Counselor might have to have? No - Let's not go there!! Eamonn.

The uniform most of us wear most of the time is known as the Field Uniform. The Activity dress is the same thing minus the Field Uniform Shirt with a Scout type T-shirt instead.I have seen in black and white that the Activity uniform is: Scout Socks, Scout Shorts, Scout Belt, and this T-shirt. My dumb question is can BSA uniform long pants be worn in place of the shorts? Eamonn

We ask our people to fill out a separate application for each and every position that they hold. They only pay once for their primary registration. Eamonn

As ever when I arrived at Camp things had changed, not everyone who was supposed to be there could make it. So I was asked to go to the Handicraft Area. To be very honest I never have liked handicrafts, but working on the idea that ours is not to reason why ours is ... Off I went. The Area is staffed by 3 young Lads, the Area Director is 18 and is doing some art course at college. They are covering: Art, Basketry, Wood Carving, Leather Work and Pottery Merit Badges. They were all wearing Scout shorts, socks and a brand new camp t-shirt. The area was a mess. It seems that they only got into the area yesterday and were still sorting it out. The Director went first he was covering he Art merit badge. The Lad was great, his love of the subject and his understanding of the requirements really hit me. When I asked about the equipment and if he had it all he smiled and said it was coming. The Lad covering Basketry knew his stuff and seemed very confident. Sad to say Leather work was not good. It seemed to me that this had more to do with selling kits from the trading post then it did with anything else. The requirements that were being covered were the bare essentials needed to gain the badge. Again the equipment was a real mess all the stamps were in a Tupperware box, no order or organization. When I inquired about this he was shocked and said that it was always like that. Wood carving was a joke. None of them had any real interest or knowledge about it. The tools were in sad shape. Pottery was a little bit better, but they only have one wheel so that is going to be a problem. When I asked if they limit the size of the classes they said no and if they did Scoutmasters would get upset. I along with all the other people who had been in the other areas met with the program director when we were done. The things that stuck out were that every area needed supplies. All the areas were a mess thanks to the staff only getting into them yesterday afternoon. All the staff seem to be self taught. I don't know how much more it would cost to have an extra staff week for staff development. I can't help thinking that we are short changing the campers who come up for the first week of camp. Maybe he Council Advancement committee could work with these Lads in the months and weeks before camp. Maybe I'm being a little too picky, but we train adults to become trainers and yet seem willing to allow these young Lads sink or swim. I am really glad that I don't serve on the Advancement Committee or the Camping Committee. Eamonn.

I have read your tale of woe in the other thread. With all due respect I think that both you and the Lads father are being more then a little over protective of your son. However in answer to your question as to what should you do? I think maybe you all need to get as far away from the Troop that your son is in as possible. While I agree that the Scoutmaster is out of line. You might want to consider something that some very wise person said to me: The best thing we can give our kids are Roots and wings. I don't remember if you posted the age of your son? But my gut feeling is that it is time that you and your husband backed off. Even with the medical condition that your son has. He does need to learn to stand on his own two feet. No this is not a Scout Requirement, and yes some Lads are happier with their nose in a book. That is fine, but when a Scout makes the Scout Oath the first word is I. It isn't me and my Mom and Dad. Eamonn

I have to admit to not reading every word that has been posted. I do have a few thoughts that may or may not be relevant to this thread. I am a Roman Catholic.Raised in a family of Irish Roman Catholics. I attended Catholic Schools and was very active in the church. Serving as an Alter Boy and at one time I thought that I might enter the Priesthood. As a young Lad I felt sorry for all the people that were not Roman Catholics.My thinking then was that "We" were right and everyone else was wrong. For a couple of years while at college,I questioned my faith and about the same time became active in The Young Socialists Party.All this time I was still active as a Venture Scout in London. Thanks to having many good friends some of them priests who took the time to talk with me, argue with me and spend time with me. I came back to the church. Looking back, maybe I should have quit Scouting for that time when I wasn't in line with doing my "Duty to God and the Queen." To tell the truth I was too busy enjoying the activities and never gave it any thought. Time passed and I became the Scoutmaster. Even though the Scout Group (Still in the UK) wasn't connected to any church. There was a history of the Troop attending Church Parade. Once a month we would all wear our uniform and attend a Sunday service at the local church. I can't remember what denomination it was. I remember feeling that I was in some way cheating. I felt that I was letting my church down. The service being about as interesting as watching paint dry didn't help. As the troop grew. we became more and more religiously diverse. With Scouts whose parents came from all over the globe attending this boring service seemed at that time a waste of time and maybe today it would even be considered offensive to the Scouts who were Buddhist's Muslims and Jewish. I gave the matter some thought and remembered that Baden Powell had said that it was better to do good then be good. So I contacted the local hospital which was big, 15 floors. We as a troop would go to the hospital once a month and wheel the patients down to the hospital chapel for the Church of England Service. As it happened the Catholic mass was in the chapel earlier, so any of the Catholic Scouts could attend Mass with me. The Scouts could attend the Church of England service or wait in the staff cafeteria until after the service when we wheeled the patients back. More time passed and I was getting married. My wife is not a Catholic. We went to visit the parish priest. We had already agreed that any kids that we might have would be raised Roman Catholic. The Priest was a super nice chap. His mother was an American and he had converted to become a Catholic. We sat and talked for a while and he asked my wife to be if she was going to convert? She said "No." He then asked why? She looked him in the eye and said that she didn't think that his God was any different then her God. To which he replied "I can't argue with that." I have sat in on a number of BOR and asked Scouts about God and have to admit to being pleasantly surprised at how many are active in their churches. I have asked if they think that we should take the "Duty to God" out of the Scout Oath and to date everyone of them has been shocked at the very idea. I am still a Roman Catholic, I have many friends that are active in other religions some are priests and ministers in other religions. I no longer feel that they are wrong or feel sorry for them. I think the Big Fellow has many rooms in his house but the doors are always open. I really hope so, I'm kind of looking forward to spending time with these guys. Eamonn

About a month or so back I sat in on an Eagle Scout Rank BOR. One Scout had organized and ran a two day "Day Camp" for mentally challenged adults. There was a lot of work put into this project and he had a lot of people and different agencies involved. As well as the project book and photos he also had a video tape. (A first for me. I had never had a Lad bring a tape before.) It was outstanding. He had such a good time that he is still volunteering with the group where most of the participants came from. Hey Barry, I love this Scouting Stuff. Eamonn

It has been a few years since I camped at our Council Summer Camp. For the past few years I have gone up to camp when my son is there and look in when we have Troops in camp. Most times this is later in the day and I visit with the Scoutmaster or the adult in charge for the week. I started doing this when I was District Commissioner,mainly because I could meet 3 or 4 Troops in one night. My little visits were / are always very low key. Some of the Troops tease me about only coming up to get a free cup of coffee.I look in and ask "How is it going?" and "How is the food?" Chatting with anyone who will chat with me. Most of the time everyone tells me that everything is just fine and dandy. In the past if there has been areas of concern I have met with the Camp Director and seen what can be done to make things right.After Camp is over I meet with the District Camping Chair and we discuss how summer camp went. He can then take everything, the good stuff and the bad stuff to the meeting of the Council Camping Committee. I have very strong feelings about Summer Camp. I feel very strongly that the little or the not so little Lad attending Summer Camp is a customer. We need to treat him as such. As a Council we have a lot of money invested in the camp and to have unhappy campers is a waste of all the time and money that has been put in. I have no time what so ever for the people who seem to think that once a Lad arrives at Summer Camp that he is fair game for what ever is thrown at him. There is and can be no excuse for poor food, leaky tents, a poor program or a Lad who after half a day wants to see what can be done about starting an escape committee!! Scoutmasters at camp are a strange bunch. Some seem happy never to leave their site except at meal times and when nature calls. Others seem to rush around all over the place. The staff at camp seem to be a little afraid of Scoutmasters, they want to go out of their way to keep on the right side of these guys. I think that this is odd as most of the Scoutmasters attend camp at no cost while the Scouts are the paying guests. Some Scoutmasters seem to have way too much time on their hands and spend the week looking for things to complain about. Morning coffee seems to be a high priority and can lead to unhappy Scoutmasters. Still the number one complaint is always the Camp Staff. Having worked as a Camp Staffer, I know that Camp Staffers feel that they belong to a very elite, select group. At times the Camp Staff feels that the reason for a Summer Camp is just so that they will have a place to spend the summer and the camp is their camp.At times a camp staff feels that they are underpaid and overworked.A lot of the time I agree with them. The unhappy Scoutmaster sees the staff as being a loud, at times scruffy bunch. He walks past the staff area and it looks a bit messy and the sound of rap music only adds to his unhappiness. One area that I hear a lot of complaints about is the Merit Badges done at camp. Again this is put on the doorstep of the Camp Staff. This year I have been asked to go up to camp for what they are calling a "Dress Rehearsal." I'm supposed to make sure that the staff members in charge of Scout craft are knowledgeable and up to speed. To be very honest I have no idea how to play this one. I have had young people work for me as dishwashers, and bus persons. While what they do is vital to the smooth operation of a restaurant, it isn't exactly rocket science. In Scouting I have always worked with young people. If something wasn't right we worked together to make it right.I knew the Scouts and they knew me and this knowing enabled us to get where we needed to be. But this idea that I'm going to spend half a day (The time the Council has allotted.) and be able to determine if the staff is ready is new to me. While I don't want to sound harsh,I can't help feeling that young as these camp staffers might be, they are now professionals. They are going to get paid (Maybe not enough?) to pass on their knowledge and skills to the Scouts who have paid to get this knowledge and the skills. I don't see what I have been asked to do as window dressing or a rubber stamp exercise. It could be that the staff is on the ball and that the Lads I meet with will be able to do everything that is expected of them. Then again maybe not. I know that I will have to inform the senior camp staff members of my findings and I will hope that somehow someway they will find time to bring any camp staff member up to the expected level of performance. Still I will feel that I'm guilty of passing the buck.I can't remember ever doing this to a Scout. If he needed help I would work with him and his Patrol Leader and we would get where we needed to be. The Campers arrive on Sunday. The Staff will be off Saturday. There will be a last minute rush to get everything ready on Friday. Even if these Scouts are professionals for the summer, I hate the idea of leaving them "Out to dry." I hate the idea that there will be approx 1,500 Scouts paying good money for something that maybe isn't as good as it should be. I will let you know how it goes. Eamonn

Why would the location make a difference? Eamonn

Barry My Old China, As you know I tend to agree with you a lot of the time and I really do admire your positive and upbeat view of Scouting. However I am going to disagree with you on the bit about having experience in two of the three Scouting programs. I would hope that when a Course Director is selecting a staff he or she would seek out as diverse a staff as possible. I have served as a Troop Guide on a course outside of my home council and had a very nice chap who was Vice President for Venturing in his council. His ticket had to do with forming committees and making long term plans within his council. I of course knew zip about how things were run in his council. I did know that in my home council we don't have vice-presidents in the program areas. So here I am not only dealing with the program area that is my weak spot, but also dealing with a "Position" that I never knew even existed. Still this Chap used the tools that he was taking from the course to set down his goals. While Venturing is part of the Wood Badge course there is no presentation that is only for Venturing Vice-presidents. As I mentioned in an earlier posting, the course we hosted last fall had a very mixed bunch as participants. One fellow was and is a super nice guy, again not from my home council. He had been a Scout for a little while about 40 years ago. He had returned to serve as a District Chairman. Of course being that we both served in the same position we just had to compare what he was doing and what I was doing. He made no bones about it. He knew that he had been selected because he was the local dentist in his small town and he was there because of the people that he knew and would bring into Scouting to help serve the district and help the district meet its goals. He had completed the New Leader Essentials and the half day District Training. Some time back Bob White planted the idea in the area that I call my brain. He was of the opinion that a Training Team, should be selected using their skill at presenting as the benchmark, rather then belonging to a program area. As it happens I think the Chap who is serving as a District Chairman, would make a first class Wood Badge Staffer. He has a "Presence" He is intelligent. He is 100% for Scouting - But he has little or no experience in one program area let alone two. Still at the end of the day we both love this Scouting Stuff. Eamonn