Eamonn

This is kind of related to the thread: Expectations from Council - Fending for ourselves. I really do believe that selecting the right person to do the job that they really want to do is the answer to a lot of our problems. Back when I was serving as Council Training Chairman, I found a Lady who was a wonderful Cub Scout Leader Trainer. She was /is a great leader, she has a great grasp on the program and really knows all the material. She became the Council Cub Scout Training Chair. Then the person who was the District Commissioner in her District quit and the powers that be managed to get her to take his place. She hates it and is only doing it because there is no one else. Of course we have lost a great Training Chair. It seems like a lose, lose situation to me! There is an ad on the telly that has a guy saying "We are going to make accounts receivables fun again!" OK I know it's a joke but we have a lot of people out there who all have different talents and different skills, if we spent a little more time matching them up with roles that they feel passionate about, make sure that we give them the tools to get the job done right. I think we would be so much further ahead. Eamonn.

Jerry, I know where you are coming from. But (Yes there is always a but!!) We do have in place a system that will work if people want it to work. I hate to admit it but I now feel that the problem is so big that it just can't be fixed!! We have way too many adults in the BSA that are "Cafeteria" Scouter's. They are not only happy to pick and choose what parts of the program they will use, they get very upset when you try and say "Hey, what you are doing isn't the BSA way and you are supposed to belong to the BSA." I in my infinite wisdom?? Really think that we need to take a long hard look at Quality. Quality Unit really doesn't do much to ensure that units are serving the goods. Quality District does nothing to see that units are doing what they should be or ought to be doing. In fact with so much riding on Quality District and Quality Council, I would go as far as to say that Quality and the quest for Quality has harmed the program. While I'm in "Infinite Wisdom Mode" I also really think that we need to take a long hard look at the job descriptions of our professionals. I have a very long list of things that I don't want or need a DE or a pro to do. One thing that I really want them to do is become more involved with our CO and the Executive Officers. I think they need to meet with them more than once a year and when they do meet they should have all sorts of information and reports at hand: Advancement Reports, Camping Reports (Taken from Tour Permits)Training Reports, Unit Commissioner Reports. All of these could be packaged nicely so that once the two Executives have gone over them, they can be passed on down the line to the COR and the CC and then if need be to the Unit Leadership. The report could red flag areas that need to be addressed. How many of our CO are unaware that something isn't working, because no one has ever told them it isn't working or the way it is supposed to work. I don't need a young DE at Training's I know people who are great Trainers and who have a great understanding of the program, I don't need a DE at a Camporee, we all know that he or she is just making an appearance, if he or she is doing what they are supposed to be doing they will never have the time to be involved with the planning of such events anyway (That's why we have people serving on District Committees.) Another benefit of these reports is that there will be a clear picture of exactly where each unit is and what if anything needs to be done. Of course some CO's will be happy not to do anything, but that will be their choice. Eamonn.

If I were on the Troop Committee, I would be behind your Hubby 100%. Sure having our Webelos Scouts cross over and join the Troop is important. But if we don't have a Troop where the Scouts are really Scouts why bother? I don't know what a Camporall really is? But I'm guessing it's some kind of Camporee? I'm all for Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts camping, but the program has to be a Cub Scout or Webelos Scout program. As everyone knows I hate the cold and yes I'm a real woozy about it and I have never camped in Illinois, but taking Webelos Scouts camping in October seems very risky to me. Your Hubby needs to find out when or if the SM will be returning? Contact the District Training Team and see if they can present the Committee Training ASAP!! Invite your UC around for a drink and go over what is working and what isn't. While a good and working relationship with all the packs in the area is important. The Troop is in the business of serving and delivering the Scout program to the Lads in the Troop. Imagine if all the Scouts in the Troop quit -Then where would the little guys go? Don't give up the faith. Go to the next fun activity that the Troop is doing. Sit back and watch them have fun while they learn stuff. If you still really think that you are not in the right place? Then the time to quit is upon you. Eamonn.

As yet I'm still working on a budget plan. It will of course have to be gone over and approved by the Committee and the Petty Officers will need to go over it. At this time we don't have any equipment what so ever -Not even a rope to tie knots in!! We are hoping that we will be fortunate enough to have some boat donations. But most of the boats that are donated are in need of work and that means buying tools. Living in a land locked state means that we have to travel to the water and more than lightly tow any boat that we take with us. I'm happy to use my Ford Explorer, but I think a 14 seater mini bus is the way to get the Scouts to where we want to be. So while I haven't done the math and I agree that $20,000 is a heck of a lot of money, I don't think spending it would be that hard, at least not in these early days. If the District wants to continue with the golf outing,(I'm sure they will try) The big problem is not where to hold it, the problem is not having the support of the Doctor and his pals. He was really upset this year when the DE didn't show and did nothing to help. Add this to the fact that he really more than dislikes the SE (He used to be our Council rep at the National Meeting, but has resigned from the Board -Because of this strong dislike) We as a Council have gone way over board with golf outings - We have 3 big ones, the biggest brings in a little over $100,000. Almost all of our players come because of this Doctor. All the records are already in the Scout Service Center. They have lists of who played and who donated what along with the financial records. So I really don't see that I have that much to hand over. I don't think we will be doing the Citizen Dinner, it's hard to find an Outstanding Citizen who people will pay to honor!! I have spoken with the Elks and the youth members and they want to use the Dances as youth dances. I think it's a wonderful idea, but I know before we even start that I'm not going to like the music. Eamonn.

Man Oh Man there is a lot going on in this thread -And I get confused real easy. There was a time when I thought that Districts would save the world. I was wrong. There was a time when I wished that Unit Commissioners were more like Sister Mary Matthew, the Nun I had at good old Holy Cross, at times she seemed like a nice kind almost saintly women, but mess up and she came down on you with no mercy and I swear she soaked her hands in vinegar. But I now see that I was wrong on that one as well. We may not like it, we might say that it just doesn't work but before we look at what the District or the Council can or can't do we need to look at our Chartering Organizations. We are as much a part of that organization as any thing else that they have. While I know that not every unit is chartered by a church, but we are as much of the church as the choir. The local Catholic Church I attend has two choirs. One is at the 10:00 mass and they sound good, the director has weekly practices and at Easter and Christmas they pull out all the stops and are really wonderful. The other choir is the one that sings at Funerals and during the week. They are an enthusiastic group, mainly retired people and they sound terrible. They don't make it to the practices. They don't like being out at night. The old Lady playing the organ I think is a distant relation of Fats Domino!! She has a individualistic bluesy style showing stride and boogie-woogie influences sad to say the rest of the choir doesn't. One night Father Len and I were sharing a beverage, I said how bad they were. He agreed but said it beats having having hymns played and no one singing!! The good choir seems to have different robes for different times of the year, I have seen them in white, blue and at times red. The weekday choir sings in their street clothes. We as a parish are proud of our good choir, but I see Father Len's thing about having the other people sing at funerals and while they don't sound like angels they do make the effort to be there. I think at times our Scout units are like the two choirs. Father Len, knows that the weekday choir isn't that great. It is in his power to tell them that they are no longer needed, but he sees that they are doing a service and is willing to turn a deaf ear. I have never spoken to any members of the parish council about them, but I'm almost sure they would say the same thing. There is a Cub Scout pack and Boy Scout Troop chartered by the church. The Troop is a really good Troop. Sad to say the Pack is going through a very rough patch. Father Len is aware what is going on, I know he does, because I talk with him a fair amount. (No ;not just at confession!!) The problems with the pack didn't happen over night and the Commissioner Team along with the District Committee did and are trying to help any which way they can. But we didn't select or appoint the Pack Leadership Team, so we can't remove them. I know that there is one Den Leader who is doing a better than fair job, she has four kids two boys and two girls, her husband drives a truck. She is doing her best, but placing mandatory things in her way is one sure way of losing her. At the end of the day the people who serve at the District level can only support, guide and advise. I don't have a group of people waiting in the wings to be leaders. Even if I did, how would I know that they would fit in the unit I sent them too? When things or money goes missing, the money or the thing doesn't belong to the District, Council or National, it belongs to the CO. Can you imagine the outcry if it was deemed to belong to the District? I can just see a Unit Commissioner telling a Scout Troop that they have too much money and he is going to take some for the District! The Weekday choir would be working an extra day. Jerry with all the best will in the world, I think you need to take a look at where you want to serve. The District and the Council really do want to serve units, but when the District and Council people and the Unit people are one and the same, it seems that no one gets served and the units suffer. Eamonn.

"That is quite an exclusive club " But we are a diverse group. He is from Cuba and ... Eamonn.

I think our good friend SemperParatus knows more about the status of non profit organizations than I ever will. $18,000.00.Does seem like a lot of money for a Scout Troop, but paying to insure and maintain all the things they have isn't cheap and maybe the money is earmarked for the next big thing that they aim to buy? I have used and like what SemperParatus is calling: Alternative 2 - Troop needs to raise $100 per boy. Sets dues at $100 and each boy has the choice of raising this money through Fundraising and/or direct checks/cash. A boy fundraisers $5 and the family pays the rest with a check. Same result (albeit a more palatable spin because there is no perceived mandatory coercion). This is of course after the committee has met and come up with a budget. While the committee can make exceptions for special needs or families with more than one Scout in the program. I think this is the only fair way of doing things. While I know that I hate to have to spend any of my hard earned cash. (OJ tells me I'm mean, I prefer the word frugal!) I and most other parents that I know are willing to pay for a quality program. We don't have many people that we can sell stuff to. All my kin are across the pond. Both of Her That Must Be Obeyed parents were only children and she has one brother who is a twit. We are not allowed to sell stuff at work anymore, thanks to people not paying for the candy bars left in the break room, and it seems that everyone where Her Who Must Be Obeyed works has boys that are Scouts!! Add to this that I'm a lazy toad. Most of the money raising events that the Troop that OJ belongs to are just not worth the time and effort. Selling pies for $6.00 and making $1.25 is a real chore. Having to be there on the day that they are delivered and then go and deliver them to the people who ordered them, costs more in time, energy and gas than he makes. I'll write the check and I'm happy to let him do what ever fund raising he wants to do for things that he wants to participate in. I pay 50% and he gets to use the money he raised as part of his 50%. He staffed the Jamboree I think the total was $250.00 I paid $125.00, he used $50.00 from his Troop account and had to come up with the rest. Eamonn.

I know that at times I'm easily impressed and some things make me smile. I smiled a lot when I heard the letter from a parent saying that their son was quiting referred to as a Dear Den Leader Letter. I have been working with the new Committee Chair of the Scout Ship. She referred to Fundraising as the F -Word. It has been a while since I have been involved with raising money at the unit level.Having spent the last ten years serving at the District level. This brings up my first problem. Over the years I used my contacts and my ideas to raise money for the District which we of course turned over to the Council. I was happy to do so and I was happy when year after year we made Quality District. However now I'm going to be done with my service to the District and will be serving at the unit level, this opens a big can of worms. Many of the people who helped raise money for the District did so at my request. I don't have a problem with the District asking them to continue, but already some are saying that they want to support the Ship. Our District Golf outing has been held at the Country Club, of which I and the Doctor who has sponsored the event are the only members. The club gave us a good deal on the meals and the green fees. He brought in a lot of his medical friends and managed to get a drug company to foot the bill for the meals. He is a very dear and close friend of mine and he really dislikes our SE. We met the other day and he wants to do the outing for the Ship. This would mean that the District /Council would lose about $12,000. We have held our District Good Citizen Dinner at the club which has brought in a little over $6,000 and a District Dance at the Elks which brings in about $2,000. -The Elks are now the CO for the Ship. While I know that it sounds very big headed of me but I was the driving force and put in most of the hard work to get these events off the ground and make them successful. Up until this year I had the support and the work that our old DE put in. She along with the Doc are now members of the Ships Committee. This year our DE didn't even attend the golf outing. I know that our Council really does need the money. I'm unsure if I will be on the Board next year? I'm unsure if I'm offered Board Membership if I will accept or not. I do know that trying to get this new unit up and running that I will not have and am unwilling to put the time into raising money for the District. In fact I'm happy to leave this in the hands of the new people, most of them are friends of mine anyway. The Ship Committee and myself agree that there is a need for the unit members to do their part and get involved when it comes to raising money. To this end we have come up with a couple of events where they are active in making what we will be selling and acting as the sales force. I kinda think next year is going to be a very hard year when it comes to money. Already on our local news they are reporting that a local food bank will not be issuing turkeys this holiday. It seems that people are worried about the high cost of fuel and have donated to the Red Cross. I know that having had my heating oil tanks filled a little while back, it cut into my mad money!! I of course will continue to support the Council with my FOS donation (Less the extra I put in when we heard that the UW was cutting our funding. - We have time next year to budget for the cuts.) I in no way wish anyone any ill will. I'm happy to have served and now I'm happy to move on to the next project. I just hope that the District is ready.I have a "New Baby" and while I wish everyone the best of luck, my time and efforts will be used in the unit where I serve. Eamonn.

The people at Badge Magic were kind enough to send me a case of the stuff. I really don't like it. OK, so I used the dryer!! Some of the patches were unusual shapes (Wagion Jamboree patch). But they never seemed to stick right from the get go. Worse is when they come off the glue leaves a nasty stain. I'll go back to sweet talking Her Who Must Be Obeyed. They also sent a roll of tape which is for hemming -that might work. Eamonn.

Before we get too carried away. The "Stuff" belongs to the CO. The money was raised in the name of the CO. But what are we talking about? Most packs have very little equipment. While Troops have a lot of equipment and have worked hard to get it, most CO's that I know would sooner have the space that a bunch of smelly tents take up!! As for money, I don't see anyone going very far on the amount that most units have in their accounts and if they do have large amounts, I wonder how come? and why are they folding? We all need at every level to do what we can to improve the way we get on with our CO's. If something isn't working we need to fix it. In the end it will pay tremendous dividends. Eamonn.

A little while back in these forums so wise and clever person;sadly I can't remember who? Brought up the idea that we are only Stewards and we need to look at the role we play as Stewardship. We don't own the unit or the program, we are entrusted with the careful and responsible management of both. BP is quoted as saying: "Try and leave this world a little better than you found it .." We at times get so busy and wrapped up doing things with the youth that are in the unit that at times we forget that most of these youth are just passing through, they will move on. The group we have today are not going to be there in a few years and we are not going to be there forever. The time will come for us to move on. If we have done our best to ensure that the unit will carry on, long after we have gone and that the unit is a little better than when we joined and will live after we have gone we will have done a good job. Eamonn.

Thanks John. You would think that in this age of high tech stuff that it would be possible to get a car that wouldn't start until the seat belt was on? Eamonn.

" Last night, there was some guy in there taking a shower who looked pretty scruffy...I think he was a homeless guy who just dropped in to freshen up, since he put his ratty clothes back on and had no towel, soap or other stuff that one normally takes to the shower." Wow!! if this meets the approval of the Council, I'm glad I'm not in that Council -Give me the two hour drive anyday. Eamonn.

Hi Michelle, I can't help but think that you might be jumping the gun a little. If you no longer wish to be Cubmaster, that is up to you. You are of course free to walk away and do as you like. But what happens after you leave is none of your business. That is up to the CO. I would hope that the people who serve at the District level are aware of the leadership problems that Pack 102 is facing and that they will work with the CO to see what can be done. If the unit does fold what happens is up to the CO and the Council. I have seen District Membership Committees work miracles, so please hold off saying that the unit is dead until the CO throws in the towel!! At one time it seemed that the pack OJ was in was going to close, no one was coming forward to take on leadership positions. However once it became clear that the CM was going and things looked really bad, someone who had been hiding in the shadows did come forward. Within three years the Pack had over 60 Cub Scouts and a working committee. I know as I was the one hiding in the shadows. Eamonn.

I was aware that the changes were coming. I'd heard that the agreement with Kenneth Blanchard,and the license to use his works was about up. The requirement that CD's attend the Directors conference is a good idea. However I know of a course that a Council in our cluster is presenting and the back up CD is an ex-Course Director. They are doing this in order to save the cost of sending another person to the conference. While I wasn't that upset about having to pay for the conference, I did think it was way over priced and if anything was a good example of how not to do things!! Of course that might just have been the one I attended. The admin guide makes it very clear that conference fees are not to be passed on to the course participants. I have to admit that when things get to costing so much that people look for loop-holes and ways of bypassing the system, I get a little worried. Thinking a little about what Barry posted. As a young leader in the UK, all them years ago!! While no one twisted my arm to attend Wood Badge and training was not mandatory (I hear that the Brits have now made it so!!) I seem to remember that there was a kind of expectation that once you completed Basic Training that you would go on and do Wood Badge. Maybe because Gilwell Park was almost in our back yard we never gave much thought as to who was presenting the course. The forms were just given to me, I completed them out paid me money and toddled off. I can't help thinking that the "Invite" is almost a joke!! Most CD's are so worried about getting the course off the ground that they will take almost anyone. Eamonn.

Our Council Camping Committee does have a list of approved camp sites for Cub Scout camps. Sad thing is that many Cub Scouters don't follow the rules, or the guidelines. I'm not sure if they really don't know or just choose to ignore them? I would call the District Camping Committee Chair. and let him know that this camp is not a suitable camp for Cub Scouts /Boy Scouts?? Maybe it will prevent some little Lad getting hurt at some time down the road. The Chair can also ask that the people in the Service Center are careful with who they issue Tour Permits to. Eamonn.

Her Who Must Be Obeyed works in the ER of our small town hospital. The past month has been really hard. Six young people have died in car accidents. One family lost two sons and the third is in a coma, he has lost an arm, will never walk and the Doctors are unsure how much brain damage he has.The three brothers were in the car, the oldest was delivering pizza. Another Lad was returning from a Christian Rock concert and was drag racing, when he crashed and was ejected from the car. Another Lad was passing on a double yellow line, on the side of a mountain and crashed into a 18 wheel truck. Another was going to fast and lost control of his motorcycle. The oldest of these was only 18 years old. Of course my heart goes out to the parents and loved ones of these kids and I pray for them and their families. None of the Lads in the cars were wearing seat belts, in most cases it seems that speed was a factor. We deal with kids a lot, please set a good example and wear your seat belt. I know that OJ is sick of me telling him not to speed and to drive with care, but I will keep repeating the same speech, not just to him but to each and every kid who drives. Please join me, I know it's boring, I know that they really don't want to hear it. But six young Lads from a small town of 4,700 is almost an epidemic. Eamonn.

Or of course you could direct them to the nearest Sea Scout Ship! Eamonn. (Or Venture Crew.)

I think making the phone call and getting what is needed -If anything- stright from the people who are paid to know this stuff, is the way to go. Eamonn.

Sorry I can't help. Have you contacted Colin Walker? scouting.milestones@btinternet.com He seems to know everyone!! Eamonn.

Knowledgeable adult supervision must be provided when Scouts are involved in the storage of chemical fuels, the handling of chemical fuels in the filling of stoves or lanterns, or the lighting of chemical fuels. The use of liquid fuels for starting any type of fire is prohibited. Guidelines for Safely Using Chemical Stoves and Lanterns Use compressed- or liquid-gas stoves or lanterns only with knowledgeable adult supervision and in Scout facilities only where and when permitted. Operate and maintain according to manufacturers instructions included with the stove or lantern. Both gasoline and kerosene shall be kept in well-marked, approved containers (never in a glass container) and stored in a ventilated, locked box at a safe distance (a minimum of 20 feet) from buildings and tents. Keep all chemical fuel containers away from hot stoves and campfires, and store below 100 degrees (F). Let hot stoves and lanterns cool before changing cylinders of compressed gases or refilling from containers of liquid gas. Refill liquid-gas stoves and lanterns a safe distance from any flames, including other stoves, campfires, and personal smoking substances. A commercial camp stove fuel should be used for safety and performance. Pour through a filter funnel. Recap both the device and the fuel container before igniting. Never fuel a stove, heater, or lantern inside a cabin; always do this outdoors. Do not operate a stove, lantern, or charcoal grill in an unventilated structure. Provide at least two ventilation openings, one high and one low, to provide oxygen and exhaust for lethal gases. Never fuel (example: all liquid fuels, charcoal. etc.), ignite, or operate a stove, heater, or lantern in a tent. Place the stove on a level, secure surface before operating. On snow, place insulated support under the stove to prevent melting and tipping. Periodically check fittings on compressed-gas stoves and on pressurized liquid-gas stoves for leakage, using soap solution before lighting. To avoid possible fires, locate gas tanks, stoves, etc., below any tents since heavy leakage of gas will flow downhill the same as water. When lighting a stove, keep fuel containers and extra cannisters well away. Do not hover over the stove when lighting it. Keep your head and body to one side. Open the stove valve quickly for two full turns and light carefully, with head, fingers, and hands to the side of the burner. Then adjust down. Do not leave a lighted stove or lantern unattended. Do not overload the stovetop with heavy pots or large frying pans. If pots over 2 quarts are necessary, set up a separate grill with legs to hold the pot, and place the stove under the grill. Bring empty fuel containers home for disposal. Do not place in or near fires. Empty fuel containers will explode if heated and should never be put in fireplaces or with burnable trash. "Are they against the G2SS?" No, but adult supervision is a must. Eamonn.

Comprehensive General Liability Insurance This coverage provides primary general liability coverage for registered volunteer Scouters with respect to claims arising out of an official Scouting activity with the exception that the coverage is excess over any insurance which may be available to the volunteer for loss arising from the ownership, maintenance, or use of a motor vehicle or watercraft. This insurance is only available while the vehicle or watercraft is in the actual use of a Scouting unit and being used for a Scouting purpose. Because of the high limits, volunteers should NOT be placed in a position where their assets are jeopardized because of a negligence liability claim or lawsuit. The insurance provided unregistered Scouting volunteers through the BSA general liability insurance program is excess over any other insurance the volunteer might have to his or her benefit, usually a homeowner's, personal liability, or auto liability policy. There is no coverage for those who commit intentional or criminal acts Call phone number (972) 580-2000 and speak to BSA Risk Management if you have a question related to insurance. Eamonn.

This one used to drive me bonkers!! I know a ditty nutty as a fruitcake Goofy as a goon and silly as a loon Some call it pretty others call it crazy but they all sing this tune: Mairzy Doats And Dozy Doats and liddle lamzy divey A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you? Yes! Mairzy doats And Dozy Doats and liddle lamzy divey A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you? If the words sound queer, and funny to your ear, a little bit jumbled and jivey, Sing "Mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy" Oh! Mairzy Doats and Dozy Doats and liddle lamzy divey A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you - oo? A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you? Illiud Latine dici non potest !! Eamonn Unless of course the Nuns where OGE went to school did a better job than those at Holy Cross. Die dulci fruere. (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

My Mum lived 40 years in London but never lost her Irish accent, while it's hard for me to judge I think my Dads accent softened a little. What gets me is that I'm unaware that I have an accent, I'm unaware that the people in the area that I live have an accent, but now when I go home to London, I'm aware that they have an accent. Eamonn.

Go Meath !! Eamonn.