Eamonn

If I am guilty of not understanding what was written, please accept my apology. Maybe you could explain how I came to not understand the following: Canoeing on moving water without prior training or planning is one of our Troop's most popular events. Just asking. Eamonn.

Who posted? "Jump over open campfire (apparent it was done before my time with the troop to 'initiate' new scouts) The attraction of "secret" campfire rituals is universal. Try your own new Scout initiation ceremony based on traditional Scout campfire war dances and war songs performed with Scout Staves" Eamonn.

While I do see my take on the Scout Oath and Scout Law as being a very personal thing. I do not see playing this game by the rules of the game as being a personal political agenda. While I know that many will disagree with me, I do feel very strongly that if you refuse to play this game by the rules you are playing the wrong game and you need to go elsewhere and find a game that you can play. We as adults do set the tone and do set the example. Adults who use a cafeteria style of leadership are doing the youth we serve a great disservice. Adults who place the youth we serve in harms way are guilty of gross negligence. Not to mention the example they are setting. Sure it might seem like harmless fun to have young Scouts leaping over fires as part of a stupid and non BSA approved initiation ceremony. However the real harm comes when Scouts see that this sort of thing is all fine and dandy then decide that they will try it with bigger and better fires when the adults are not around. Allowing Scouts to participate in activities without the proper equipment and correct training is just down right and out right dumb. It has nothing to do with my personal political agenda. I just do not understand how an adult leader can claim to have Scout spirit when they are blatantly and brazenly not keeping the Scout Oath and Law. As leaders we are placed in a position of trust, parents don't know all the rules. Scouts look to us and at what we do, they follow the example we set. When we say that not following the rules is OK. Or when we show a total disregard for what is laid down in BSA literature. This clearly isn't in keeping with helping young people make ethical decisions, in fact it is the exact opposite. Maybe the BSA does lack some checks and measures that would help ensure that people who are not playing this game by the rules are not allowed to continue with setting the bad example that they set. My great fear is that nothing will be done to get these people out of our organization before a youth member is harmed. My great hope is that they will see that this really isn't the organization for them and they will leave. Eamonn.

I have heard it said that there is a six month minimum. However I have yet to see this in any Wood Badge or BSA literature. So unless some wise and learned Wood Badge staffer can show me where in black and white it states there is a minimum, I'm going with the answer that there is not a minimum. However having been around Tickets for a very long time I would say: It's not a race. Hopefully at the course you and the Troop Guide should have got together and worked on a ticket that is meaningful and should enable you to practice the skills that you learned on the course. Your ticket should be guided by asking the question "How does my ticket teach young people to make ethical decisions and improve their leadership skills. Your ticket isn't just a list of the five goals. The ticket should list your personal values, description of your role in Scouting,a statement of your vision of success. A mission composed of the five significant goals that can be reached within 18 months. Your vision might not be realized immediately after completing the goals. Meeting the goals is merely a kick-start to a long-term work in progress. I admit that when I have been asked to serve as a Troop Guide, I do ask the participants that I work with to look for goals that stretch them. I remember one old time SM who wanted to just build a knot board. The guy could have done this in his sleep. We talked it over and the knot board stayed, but he changed it so that each patrol was going to build a knot board. He was going to work with the SPL and the PLC as to the design and the knot boards would become part of a Troop meeting. He was going to ensure that the PLC could all tie the knots needed and they would teach the Scouts in the Patrols the needed knots. I had a Lady who sat on our Executive Board on the marketing committee, she had a great idea of making a booklet that each unit would receive showing them how to improve how they went about marketing. She had each chapter as a goal. Again we talked and in the end she made the entire booklet a goal. Of course each and every Ticket is different and that being true, some people will need the entire 18 months while others might be done a lot quicker. I know that it's very wrong of me but I often wonder if the guys and girls that are done real fast have really thought about what their vision and what their mission really is? Eamonn.

No. You are the first person that I heard it from. Welcome to the forum. Eamonn.

Hi Kudu, As you might have picked up - I was a Scout and a Scout Leader in England for a fair amount of time. Almost 12 years as a Leader and all the way through Cubbing, Scouting and Venture Scouting. I agree that many of the games that Troops use are a little on the rough side. As a young Scout Leader I attended Wood Badge and the leadership skills taught then (Early 70's) were much the same as the ones that were taught when I started Staffing Boy Scout courses on this side of the pond. In fact if you take a close look at the 21st Century Wood Badge many if not most of the same skills are still there with new names. I am a little concerned when you post: "Make sure that the Guide to Safe Scouting is not just an excuse for the adults to reject activities with which they are not familiar or qualified to run themselves." I have never seen the G2SS as an excuse not to do things that are BSA approved activities. In fact I see it as a way of covering my tail and doing everything to ensure that our youth members do have fun. An injured Scout isn't having any fun. Baden Powell was a great man and years ahead of his time. However just because BP did was was acceptable at that time in no way makes it OK to do today. Of course if you are talking about the BP Scouts and not the BSA, I do hope that you make this very clear to the parents. Way too much time and space has been used on the web discussing Laser tag or whatever you want to call it. My feelings are that is isn't a BSA approved activity and going ahead with it shows total disregard for the Scout Oath Law. I know if I knowingly went ahead and broke a rule that expecting others to follow rules would be difficult. While I don't see much fun in the ideas that you have posted, maybe some Lads might? However the vision statement of the BSA states: Offer young people responsible fun and adventure; I really see much of what you posted as being anything but responsible. I count myself as being very fortunate that my son is not a member of the unit you serve. Eamonn.

Sounds to me like Mr. Scoutmaster is no Scout. Dump him. Find a another Troop. If you know the number of your Unit or District Commissioner, I would call him or her and report the facts. Eamonn.

Here I go again climbing on the old milk crate. Sad to say I don't see 14 year olds as "Older Scouts". I have found that most times when Lads hang back and don't do things it is because they don't know how. This not knowing can take all sorts of shapes. Sometime back I watched a group of Scouts at a District Camporee where the theme was Pioneering, they just get into it and very soon became bored and started finding things to do. Most of which were not things that might be expected from Boy Scouts. The reason they hung back was that they just didn't know how to tie the knots. The same can be said of planning, most Lads need to be shown how to plan. This is the job of the Scoutmaster. Of course the SM being a wise and clever fellow knows that he or she will use many of the skills that he got from Wood Badge to help him. He knows that when the plan comes up there will be great joy, enthusiasm's will run rampant. He also knows that this will be followed by disagreements, and then if the group (PLC ??)Can get past this there will be a period when things come around followed by more great joy. He or she knows that different styles of leadership are needed to help move the group through these stages. Because he or she is such a clever leader he is aware that most times it isn't what you are selling it is in how you sell it!! PLC's have to be fun. If you have done the ground work they really can be. Having a good well balanced Annual Plan with themes is a great start. Going into the meeting with a well planned Agenda that the SPL along with the help and support of the SM have both worked on is a must. Looking at new twists on the same old same old is the mark of a great SM, selling it to the PLC and watching it work is the mark of a wonderful leader. Tying knots in the church hall with frayed ropes is very boring. Patrols making rope ladders and having races adds a little bit more excitement, practicing at the PLC makes it work. Don't try and reinvent the wheel. Look for ways of making it better. Sure some things will fail and we use the failure as a learning experience. (Take a look at the videos in the Scoutmaster Specific course) Most 14 year olds that I have met are really keen and really want to go out of their way to please others. They want you to be pleased!! They need to hear it from you!! You need and the SM really listen to what they are saying. The adults need to be very aware that they need to follow the Scout Oath and Law. If we promise something we have to be able to deliver it. It comes under trustworthy. Good Luck. Eamonn.

Pleased to report that all the paper work for the new Sea Scout Ship in now in the Council Office. Thanks to information that I received from a very kind forum member (Thanks Seabear) We are off to a Safety at Sea Weekend, which is a joint U.S. Coast Guard / Sea Scout event. Sad to say it couldn't have fallen on a worse weekend.H/S Sports are in full swing and there is some kind of H/S Band competition on this weekend. Just my luck to have a bunch of Lads that are either jocks or band members or both!! We also have our small town Fall Festival going on, and Scout car races. (Soap Box cars) It looks like it will be a marvelous weekend, it's a shame that only two Lads can make it. It's a long drive about 350 miles each way, but I sure as heck wasn't going to let a couple of football games and a few Soccer games along a few Lads tooting their flute cancel the weekend. I'm telling everyone that from small acorns mighty oak trees grow. The Dad of two band players is also the Assistant Leader, for his sins he is also the H/S Band Treasurer, so he isn't able to go. This left me scrambling for an adult. I asked a lot of people and the first to offer was our new DE. The guy that I have been saying is about as useful as pockets in my underwear!! Would someone please pass the salt? I need it to help eat this crow. Still I'm sure we both will get to know each other a little better over the weekend. The two lads that are going are really great kids. It's a shame OJ has soccer!! But I aim to take plenty of photos which will be the best recruiting tool. Eamonn.

Hops, I think the fact that Action Center D used ropes on the tower, helped people trust the staff there a little more. A good number of the people working on the tower come from the same Council as myself. They are a great group of guys. I had several of them join us in the Duck Dance!! Eamonn.

I 100% agree that the Troop is where the action should be. All the important stuff happens in the Troop. The PLC and the SM in my book rule. I'm sure that Summer Camp programs come in all shapes and sizes. I love our Summer Camp site. Over the years we have invested mucho dinar do try each year to recruit and employ the best staff that we can. However it really saddens me when I hear Troops say that we are not offering anything for the older Scouts. Sure after 3 or 4 years, Scouts have earned most of the Merit Badges offered at camp. But surely Summer Camp has to be more than just Merit Badges? With a little planning and for a few extra dollars Troops could really be out and about enjoying all the other activities that the area has to offer. We have great hiking trails, canoeing, mountain biking, even white water rafting on our door step. But it seems that the Great Merit Badge Hunt over-rides everything. I like Jamborees and Philmont. I agree with everything that Bob White has said. When I talk to Scouts about the Jamboree, I tell them it's like Disney Land for Boy Scouts. Sure there are really neat and interesting places to go and things to do at home, but the Jamboree and the programs offered are hard to get at home. When I talk about Philmont, I tell them it's like Boy Scout Heaven. New Mexico is so different from Southwestern Pennsylvania. Experiencing the largest youth camp in the world is something that I know I would have hated to have missed. Sure a Scout doesn't need to go to Philmont or a Jamboree, but those that do come back in awe of how great Scouting and the BSA really is. Eamonn.

Hi,pmickle1027 Welcome to the forum. Would you be willing to change the Troop meeting night to accommodate this Lad? If the meeting night was changed would he attend? It is unfortunate that the EMT course and Scouting are not working out. I think you both need to take a long hard look at the requirements. If the Lad has met all the requirements and you are questioning his participation other than the required participation, you might want to ask yourself what is Scout Spirit? I know many great Scouters who have had to cut back on what they do to serve Scouts and Scouting because of family, work or education, many of these people are shining examples of Scout Spirit. I kinda think when you take a long hard look at it you will see that Scout Spirit isn't just participation. Think about the Lad that is at every meeting and is a real pain in the neck. Is he showing Scout Spirit? Eamonn. Of course if he hasn't met the requirements, that's a different ball of wax. (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

"I learned of a company that primarily makes magnetic military ribbon bars but also will make square knot sets for Scouters." Hi NeilLup Please share the information. Her Who Must Be Obeyed would love you forever!! Eamonn.

I kinda think the guys and girls that serve behind the scenes are under-appreciated. Of course different people do things different ways and different times can lead to different appreciation. We have had Council Presidents that have had to deal with times when things were really tough. They tend to be the Presidents that are under-appreciated, while the guys who were President when things were good and managed to spend money on new buildings and things that people see are the ones that people hold in high esteem. On the professional side I think that the poor old Field Director is not appreciated very much by the volunteers. They really don't know what he does all day and don't deal very much with him or her. We are a small Council and don't have a Finance Director, so maybe he would be in the same boat? Some less pushy District Chairmen, the type who only Chair the District meeting are not recognized for all the things that they do behind the scenes. Many of the volunteers in the District I serve are only now starting to understand that money is a very important commodity and does go a long way in helping the quality of service offered by the Council. While they are the people who deliver the program, the District and the Council can and does offer lots of support, some of which doesn't come cheap. Someone was trying to work out how much money the Council had spent on our Summer Camp site over the past 20 years, I will be very interested to see what they come up with. We are very lucky that we have a very knowledgeable and committed group of people who manage our Council endowment fund, I feel sure that many of our families and volunteers don't even know that they are out there doing what they do. Eamonn.

Our local volunteer Firemen were out today passing the boot, many are or have been involved in Scouting. I went to the local hardware store and Scouts were cooking hot-dogs and selling them to raise money for the victims of Katrina. I seen people hand over a $10.00 or a $20 for a dog. I had just had lunch, but theres always room for a dog. I went back and brought my camera, I'll send it to our local newspaper. Eamonn.

I am constantly amazed at how different brothers can be. I don't know why? Looking at myself and my brother I can see that we have very little in common. He is very short and by English standards I'm tall even at 5'11". He had jet black hair, while I had brown hair. Still I'm amazed at how different brothers can be. Colin and Gus are brothers and I was pleased when they both signed up for the Jamboree. I know their Dad and he is a great guy. Colin has jet black hair and Gus has red hair. Colin is the older of the two by just over a year. They both went their own way at the Jamboree, I never seen them hang out or do stuff together. Gus, is a very happy kid, at times he seemed very happy just doing his own thing. Colin was busy doing stuff all over Fort AP Hill. Gus moved a much slower pace. But he was happy just doing what ever it was he was doing. Even doing laundry. He asked me for some detergent and rinsed out a ton of clothes. He hung them on a line without wringing them out, left them hang out all night, so the dew which seemed to be very heavy got to them. They hang out for what seemed a very long time, but it didn't seem to bother Gus. While I really like both Lads, I was taken with Gus. He is just such a happy kid. When we got back I was talking with his parents and I said what a great kids they both were, but I thought Gus really had a great time. His parents were shocked. They asked if I was sure I was talking about Gus. Yesterday was payday. In the mail I received a letter which read: Dear Eammon, The Jamboree was a blast and it was worth every penny. Colin and I want to thank you for being such a good and responsible leader. You let us be independent and go whereever we wanted whenever we wanted. You weren't too strict but you knew how to handle 40 scouts quite well. I'm glad you made it through your surgery o.k. and your recovery was fast. It would have been a bummer if you weren't able to make it.If you weren't there jambo wouldn't have been such a great scout experience. Thanks again Your Friends in Scouting Colin and Gus I didn't get upset about the mis-spellings even of Eamonn!! I smiled when I seen the "Handle 40 Scouts quite well -Even if there were only 36!! I knew this Lad was special and this letter confirms it. I'll take a letter like this over a Silver Antelope. Eamonn.

I only managed to catch a few minutes of Dateline on NBC. I was shocked and dare I say a little disappointed that the relief effort is taking so long. My heart goes out for the poor people. Yes the looting was bad, but what I saw on TV tonight wasn't people taking TV's but people trying to find food and water. I seen kids that were in need and parents unable to help them. It seems that every-time I have enough "Mad money" to pay my first World Jamboree payment, something comes along that is more important. I just can't even imagine the pain that some of them people are in. I know that gas prices are hurting and sending kids back to school isn't cheap, but if we can't help someone who needs a hand are we really keeping the Scout Oath? If we can't help these kids are we really serving the youth that we sit here and talk about? Please do what you can to help. Eamonn

Boy oh Boy!! Last October I was asked to sit in on the interview of our "New" DE. He had already met with the Field Director, who was being promoted and leaving a few weeks later. We all met for lunch. I was very derelict in my duties. I have over the years interviewed and hired staff at most levels, from Managers to cleaners. When I met with this DE I was trying to be nice!! I really wanted him to be very comfortable and I went out of my way to be warm and fuzzy. We chatted about what he had done as a Scout. We chatted about his parents. (He is only 23). I was very polite!! While I admit to being a real twit. I think at the time my thinking was that it was a done deal. Sad to say the Guy just doesn't get it. He doesn't communicate. He came up to me and said that he really wanted to get involved with Cub Scout Camping? He just didn't understand when I said that wasn't his job. Volunteers take Cub Scouts camping. He doesn't understand how a District works. Sure we packed him off to PDL-1. When he came back he wanted to get more involved in Venturing?? The Field Director that left and myself had more than our fair share of disagreements. But the guy was a task master, he pushed the DE's. Sad to say the replacement had never been a FD and it seems lacks either the knowledge or the leadership to motivate the DE'S. I like to think that I have tried to help this poor guy out. I know that the Program Director has tried, but he just doesn't seem to understand what a DE does. Maybe before you meet with him, you might ask the FD or the SE if he has a copy of the DE Job Description and yourself and the District Chairman could meet and write down what you both expect of a DE and a few questions that will help you both work out if he or she is right for the job and right for the District. I didn't want a "Program Guy", I have people that deliver the program. I wanted an admin type, someone who would take care of the paperwork, meet with Unit Executive Officers. Someone who would go out into the community and bring in new units and FOS contributions. We may not like to hear it but membership and finance are goals that a District must meet. Any DE that doesn't realize that the District should be raising at least twice his salary is in the wrong job. Our DE works from his home. He has yet to share his home phone number with the volunteers (I do of course have it.) Where as everyone really liked our last DE, the feeling that the volunteers have about this guy is that he is just doing a job and doing as little as possible. He is of course very young, he isn't getting much in the way of on the job training. I feel sure that if he stays long enough to become eligible for promotion that he will be gone. I really wish that I had taken the time to interview him and hadn't been so darn nice. If you get the chance you might want to view the DVD Meetings Of The District (#AV-06DVD07). Take notes about what the DE does. Unlike yours truly I hope you go in more prepared than I did. Eamonn.

"....that update requires a revisit" Who said it did? I really think that the majority of the forum members are fed up with these "Drag the BSA into the dirt" postings and threads that jkhny continues to post. While he is of course welcome and can post away!! Maybe it's time we just didn't take the bait? Good-bye jkhny. - I for one will no longer be responding to your negativity. Eamonn.

A long time ago OJ made it very clear to me that he wanted me not to be part of his Scouting "Career". I admit to being a little hurt at the time. However I remembered that when I was a Lad in Scouts, my parents were supportive but never really involved. There were many times during my tempestuous teens when the Scout Hall was my sanctuary. A place away from home where no parents dwelt. For the most part I've been good and have not interfered or even said that much. He, all on his own decided to leave one Troop, because he felt that many of the merit badges he had were worthless and had been given to him. The SM of the Troop had left about a year after OJ joined and things had gone down hill very quickly. Again on his own he choose another Troop. Not the one I would have chosen, but like I said I was being good. The Troop he is in, isn't the worst Troop in the world, but it isn't the best. OJ, isn't a dummy and has worked this out for himself. In fact he did a good job of having a few changes made while he was SPL.Things that he found out from staffing JLTC and reading some of the many books and BSA publications that are all over the house. I have read with interest the threads and postings about making Eagle Scout rank. Her Who Must Be Obeyed, really wants OJ to become an Eagle Scout. Her Father who passed away a few months before OJ was born was a well known SM in our small town, her childhood sweetheart now a retired high ranking Air-force guy is an Eagle Scout and so is her brother who is a first class twit. I'll also own up to being very proud of being a Queen Scout. OJ, only needs to complete his leadership,service project. Which has been approved and he has made a half hearted start on, along with the BOR. The project is a good one and the plans that he has on paper look good. (Yes they are on my computer and I looked!!) Her Who Must Be Obeyed was shopping one day and found a lot of Eagle Scout paper cups, napkins and tray liners on sale. She has big plans for his Eagle Scout COR. She has a guest list with over 300 people on it!! All this Eagle Scout paper is taking up room that she would like to now use for something else.She is now getting on at me to have a word with him. I of course would be pleased if he decided that making Eagle Scout was really something that he wanted to do. He turned 17 last July. Sad to say the Troop he is in offers nothing for older Scouts. It hands out a JASM patch and the older Scouts look in at the odd Troop meeting. The Crew that he was in fell apart, due to lack of any real direction and complete lack of any meaningful activity. Still he remains active. He wants to be a part of the new Sea Scout Ship and is very active in the OA, serving as Vice Lodge Chief, Section Secretary and he has high hopes of being elected Lodge Chief later this year. He had a busy summer; staffing the Jambo and doing the Trail Crew at Philmont along with serving on staff at our Council Summer camp, even if he did miss half of it!! I have avoided the "Get down and get this Eagle done" speech. My feelings are that it has to come from him. I have had a few chats with him about making Eagle Scout and was a little taken back when he said that the real problem is that "They" give it to anyone!! As someone who sits on a fair amount of Eagle Rank BOR's I think I might be part of the "They"!! He could of course be trying to push my buttons. I know that at times I do that a lot. I do however believe that where he is right now is fine with me and that left alone he really doesn't care about advancement or making Eagle. I kinda think he will get it done, but mainly so that Her Who Must Be Obeyed can have room in the cupboards. I of course will end up in the poor house, paying for the COH. But what the heck I've been there before. Eamonn

I'm unsure if we have any forum members from the New Orleans, area? But I'm sure everyone will join me in offering a kind thought and many will join in saying a prayer for the people who live in the area. Lord, we are Your people, the sheep of Your flock. Heal the sheep who are wounded, touch the sheep who are in pain, clean the sheep who are soiled, warm the lambs who are cold, calm the sheep who fear. Help us to know the Father's love through Jesus the shepherd and through the Spirit. Help us to lift up that love and show it all over this land. Help us to build love on justice and justice of love. Help us to believe mightily, hope joyfully, love divinely. Renew us that we may help renew the face of the earth. Amen

You of course know more about the Lad and his family than I do. Still I have found that at times having a parent around really doesn't help with matters of discipline. Scouts like many of us have different "Sides". My little darling acts very differently depending on where he is at and who he is with. At times when he is home he can be a real handful, drive 20 mins to camp and an OA weekend and he is a different Lad completely. Could it be that having both his Mum and his brother around that he no longer sees the event as a Scouting event? But just an extension of how they act at home. I think I would have a word in Mums ear on the QT before I would do anything. Meantime I would go out of my way to do everything I could to catch the Lad doing things right and praise the heck out of him for doing so. Eamonn.

Can you pound sand in salt water? Eamonn

I really think that this thread has ran its course. Please feel free to make use of "Ignore this user" thingy that can be found under each persons name. Or send a private message to a fellow forum member to complement or complain about what you do or don't like. I agree with OGE,who posted: "It would be best if we went on to discussing issues that involve scouting and giving advice to those who request it rather than gobbling up each other like rabid dogs " So I'm closing this thread. Eamonn

I don't know the full details about what sst3rd was busy doing. I do know at times I have wished that Scouts did come without parents! But that might fall under the heading of not being kind. One problem that I see we have, and by we I mean nearly all of us in Scouting is that we take on too much. I know that I'm very guilty of asking people to do more and more, which is wrong of me. We have Unit Commissioners that are so busy doing training's, asking for FOS contributions, covering camp promotions, and helping out with activities and advancement that they don't have time for unit service. Of course sometimes you can't win for losing, or at least so it seems!! When I became District Chairman, I made up my mind that I wasn't going to ask any unit leaders to serve on the District Committee. Selecting and training people that in a lot of cases had either no knowledge or what knowledge they did have of Scouting was from being a youth in the program, was tough and hard work. Worse still I messed up a couple of times and selected the wrong person.(Not just me but the nominating committee.) While so far no one has said it to my face, I have heard that I'm guilty of handing the District over to the "Suits". Most of us have a very hard time saying No! One great thing about Wood Badge and the Ticket is that it makes us think of what our (Yours or mine) Vision and Mission is. I didn't ask unit leaders to serve on the District Committee, because I felt that they were doing the important job of delivering the program. That delivery is the most important role in Scouting. The other people; be they National, Regional, Council or District types are only there to support the program and the people in charge of delivering it. Every now and then I think it's a good idea to stop and look at what we are doing and make sure that we are doing what we are supposed to be doing. On a very personal note, when I did this I found that I was guilty of putting Scouting before my wife and family. I'm not sure about sails and anchors, but without them I'd be up the creek without a paddle. I'll put the milk crate away now!! Eamonn.