Eamonn

Comrades true, born anew, peace to you! Your souls shall be where the heroes are And your memory shine like the morning-star. Brave and dear, Shield us here. Farewell! Eamonn and may perpetual light sine upon them. Amen

The Ship went caving over the weekend. Everyone had a great time. I'm still a little sore!! When we came out we were wet, extremely dirty, but smiling. We didn't wear any sort of a Scout uniform, but it was strange when they changed out of their wet and dirty clothes most were wearing some sort of a scouting t-shirt.(No prompting from me.) Both our Coxswain and Coxswains Mate seem to have a thing about Burger King, so we stopped (We always stop!!) We were munching away when the manager came and gave everyone an apple pie. He said that he had noticed the shirts. Burger King Apple pies are not bad!! Eamonn.

Maybe you need to explain to the parent that: 1/ $10.00 will go to National for the annual membership fee and when the time comes he will move into the Troop for $1.00 transfer fee. I of course don't know when your Council recharters or how they do it. There is a way of transferring a Lad from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts for only $1.00 if the Troops in the Council charter before th Cub Scouts do. In which case there is no $10.00 membership fee. However the Cub Scouts must still be on the Pack charter. We have things set up this way in our Council. 2/While I really like Boy's Life Magazine, I have never seen it as my place to spend other peoples hard earned cash. Are you sure he wants Boy's Life? 3/ A Webelos Scout earns 20 pins. When I was a Webelos Scout Den Leader, it seemed that they earned about one a month, of course there were months when they didn't earn any and months when they received two. We presented these at the monthly pack meeting. When the Pack budget was done we knew that we would spend approx the cost of 15 pins per Scout, along with the Webelos Badge and a couple of compass pionts. I seem to remember that the pins cost $1.75 each. The budget for second year Webelos Scouts was only 5 pins and the AOL patch. I don't know what the patch costs but lets go with $3.00 for the patch and $8.75 for the pins. 4/ Pinewood Deby? Car $4.00 prizes for a pack of 65? Say $2.50 per Cub. We sold pop and hot dogs at our race and made money. 5/ Banquet costs? We had a covered dish and a cake competition and used the church hall but lets go with $7.50 per Cub Scout. I don't know what outings packs do in the winter months? Still I'm only coming up with $35.75. I'm sorry I really think that the pack committe needs to take a long hard look at this. Why should a Lad who is only going to be in the pack for 3 or 4 of the less active months pay the same as a Lad who is going to be there for the full year? Eamonn.

I'm not sure that I understand the math? Is the pack asking $75.00 for a Lad to remain in the Pack from January till April. Sounds kinda high to me. I don't think my answer is going to be of much help. But here goes. While we tend to wait till the B&G Banquet or plan a big crossing over ceremony, this isn't the same as the Arrow of Light ceremony. Most packs wait and present this to all the Webelos Scouts at the same time. This is the norm and it works. However being as Cub Scouts advance as individuals, they should be able to receive any awards that they have earned very soon after they have earned them. Not having to wait for the big ceremony. If he isn't a member of the BSA it would seem a little silly giving him a BSA award. If he has already joined the Troop, there would be no need for a Bridging ceremony. You don't say how old the Lad is? If he were my son and had earned the AOL and was old enough to go into the Troop, I would ask that he be given the award and I would get him into the Troop ASAP and save the $75.00 That $75.00 would go a long way in helping to buy his uniform. Being as the purpose of Cub Scouting is to prepare Boys to become Boy Scouts, I see this $75.00 as a very unnecessary hurdle. I fail to see how you can ask a family to pay this for 3 months. Eamonn.

"Perhaps a discussion could be approached during the SM conference in the way of "what examples of showing Duty to God can you tell me about?". I feel almost certain that every member of the forum would do what they could to help this Lad. But, asking what what examples of showing duty to God, if he is going to say that he isn't sure that there is a God? We are aware that teenagers do question things, do want to experiment with new things and at times rebel against almost everything. Still how we we deal with a Lad who said that helping other people was just dumb? That said he hated the USA? Thought that being physically fit and mentally awake was a waste of time? Said that being morally straight was plain silly? Eamonn.

There have been persistent legends circulated in the Jewish world over the centuries about the fact that certain Jews who either posed as Christian converts or were actually converted, rose to become pope. There was an excellent book written about the subject a number of decades ago entitled Three Jewish Popes. Alas, all of the legends have never been authenticated. There is one favorite legend about the son of a tenth century rabbi and scholar, a member of the school that eventually gave rise to Rashi and to the Tosafists of France and Germany, who was kidnapped, baptized and eventually became pope. His father somehow managed to contact him and even visit him (in a version of the legend he played chess with him) and this pope escaped from his Christian world and returned to the bosom of Judaism. This legend has had remarkable staying power in the Jewish world and is recounted in many books. Yet, there never has been any evidence that would substantiate its veracity. It may be that these legends arose as a form of Jewish revenge against an institution that persecuted the Jewish people horribly for millennia. Whatever the reason, Jews seemed to find some perverse pleasure in believing that one of them had actually become a pope. It is the feeling of triumph that a weak and persecuted minority has when it feels that somehow it has outwitted its stronger and more powerful adversary. So the legends about Jewish popes live on until our day. The origin of the legend about a Jewish pope seems to have arisen in the story of Rabbi Shimon ben Elchanan HaGadol (the Great) of tenth century Mainz, Germany. Rabbi Shimons son, Elchanan was captured and kidnapped as a child by Christians and baptized and raised as a Christian. Rabbi Shimon, distraught and heartbroken, never gave up hope of finding his son and restoring him to Judaism. Rabbi Shimon is the author of a piyut (prayer poem) that has found a permanent place in the recitation of the Ashkenazic liturgy for the shacharit/morning prayer service of Rosh Hashana. In this prayer there is an acrostic that begs God, my son, Elchanan, live into the eternal world. This is apparently a reference to the boys kidnapping and forced conversion to Christianity. Legend has it that Rabbi Shimon somehow gained an audience with the pope to plead for the relaxation of Catholic decrees against the Jews and in that meeting both the pope and Rabbi Shimon realized that they were father and son. The chess game between the two was a later embellishment of the original legend. That Rabbi Shimons son was kidnapped and baptized is a fact. What happened to him afterwards is open to legend and conjecture. Of course, the original pope, Peter, was Jewish. Jewish legend here also plays a role. There arose legends in the Jewish world regarding Peter that he returned to Judaism and deserted the cause of Christianity before his death. There is even a legend that when he returned to Judaism he somehow authored the anonymous but exalted piyut prayer, nishmat kol chai, which is recited in the shacharit services of Shabat and the holidays. Though many scholars have refuted this idea, it is still held to be true in some Jewish circles until today. Among the cardinals of the Church today there is a converted Jew, Cardinal Lustiger, the archbishop of Paris. He was converted to Christianity when he was barely a teenager, after his family was deported to Auschwitz and he was entrusted to Christians to be saved from a similar fate. He has risen in the hierarchy of the Church. He has visited Israel and, as could be foreseen, received a very mixed reception here. Jewish apostates obtain very short shrift in the Jewish world, even if they become cardinals. Nevertheless there have been numerous articles about him in the Jewish press over the years and all have somehow raised the possibility that he someday could be pope. The debate on the matter always ends with the classical Jewish question about all world events Is it good for the Jews or not? I am hopeful that the more positive turn in relations with the Jews that the last pope inaugurated will continue and that the ancient hatreds and tensions will diminish and perhaps even eventually disappear. We do not need Jewish popes. We need popes who will treat Jews fairly and with compassion. Berel Wein,Jerusalem Post Eamonn.

So if we are going to allow Agnostic Scouts, how should we re-word the Scout Oath? As I posted I do think that the parents of the Lad need to understand what is going on. Both we their son and what the BSA stand point is. I don't see it as the role of a Scouter to change the Lad, that is up to his parents and whatever church or religion they might belong too. Our role is to deliver the program. We explain the Oath and Law before a Lad or an adult joins. The statement of religious principle is on the membership application. There are other youth groups and organizations that don't have the same values as the BSA.If he really is a agnostic, he might want to look into joining one of them. An Agnostic Scout is like a Jewish Pope. Eamonn.

Do I agree that someone needs to have a long hard chat with this Lad? Of course I do. He may well be rattling CA_Scouters cage. He might not understand what he is saying. But if he does stand by what he is saying, if he really is agnostic, there is no way that he can on his honor do his best and do his duty to God. He is unable to make the Scout Oath and is not able to be a member of the BSA. The BSA does use the term Agnostic and is very clear that people who claim to be agnostic can not be members. I have to admit to being a little shocked when people say that this is none of anyones business. I see Duty to God as a very big part of Scout Spirit don't we cover this at Scoutmaster conferences and BOR? I don't see how asking a Lad who doesn't believe in the core values of the organization to leave is wrong. I see it much the same way as me going to a temperance meeting with a can of beer. Eamonn

The problem here isn't the Lad and the prayer. The Lad has said that he is an agnostic. The correct answer to : "Does BSA require that he be expelled from the organization due to his agnosticism? " Is yes, he can not continue in the BSA as an agnostic and if he stands by this he should be asked to leave. Eamonn.

I think you will find all you need to know at: http://www.bsalegal.org/faqs-113.htm Q. Why is duty to God important to Scouting? A. Since its founding in the United States in 1910, the Boy Scouts of America has had an ongoing commitment to encouraging moral, ethical and spiritual growth. The Boy Scouts of America believes that the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law are central to Boy Scouts goals. Q. What harm would come of admitting young people who are unwilling to do their duty to God? A. The Scout Oath and Law have served as the foundation of Scouting for 94 years. It would be a disservice to over five million youth and adult members of Scouting to allow members to pick and choose among the elements of the Oath or Law. Q. How does the Boy Scouts of America define religion? A. Boy Scouts of America is not a religion; it is a nonsectarian association of persons who believe in God. The Declaration of Religious Principle describes God in a broadly interfaith way as the ruling and leading power in the universe to whom we are grateful for favors and blessings. Q. What religions are involved with Scouting? A. Virtually every religion is represented in the Boy Scouts of America, from Catholics and Protestants, to the Armenian Church of America and Zoroastrians. The Religious Relationships Committee, which includes over 30 religious groups represented in Scouting, determines whether a religion is an appropriate partner for Scouting, and reviews any duty to God material which is to be used in Scouting for consistency with Boy Scout policies. Q. What allows the Boy Scouts of America to exclude atheists and agnostics from membership? A. The Boy Scouts of America is a private membership group. As with any private organization, Boy Scouts retains the constitutional right to establish and maintain standards for membership. Anyone who supports the values of Scouting and meets these standards is welcome to join the organization. Hope this helps Eamonn.

OK so I've never ran across a situation like this. I don't think that the Committee can do anything. The CO can. However for a moment let's suppose you belong to a unit with that rare breed of CO that isn't involved and isn't going to get involved. While we all know that Uniform is a method of Scouting, we do at times forget that owning or wearing isn't required to be a member of the BSA. If I was to guy who had to deal with this, I would meet with the parents of the Lad and try to find out why? Is it the entire uniform that is the problem or maybe it's just the Flag on the uniform? If it was just the flag I would see if there was any way that the Lad could wear the uniform without the flag? I kinda think he can, but I don't know so I would check it out. If it was the entire uniform, I would fall back on the Rules and Regulations of the BSA, which state that a uniform is not required for membership. I would be OK with that.But if I wasn't I would go and talk to the CO and see what their feelings are. I'm all for the Methods of Scouting, but they don't work if the Lad is asked to leave. Eamonn.

Hi OGE, I admit to being a little surprised when I read the Sea Scout Manual. I kinda put the Sea Scout attendance requirement with the being able to tie a cleat hitch, it's in Sea Scouting but I don't see it any where else in the BSA. Of course being the Book Thumper that I am I will stick to the book. The Sea Scout Manual is clear when it states 75% attendance over six months. (Not to get off course but I hear the manual is being rewritten)As some may know I'm not big on Troop rules and stuff -Please lets not even go there!! So while Sea Scouting does have it down in black and white, I see Boy Scouting a little differently. In a Troop we should be working closely with the Scout. We should be communicating with him and helping him set goals, his goals!! Sometime back we had an example of a Lad who hadn't attended a Troop meeting for sometime because the EMT course he was taking fell on the same night as the Troop meeting. I happen to think that this Lad was still active. However I also think it would be wrong of him to take on being SPL or some other POR, which really kinda should mean that his happy and smiling mug oughta to be at the meetings! A lot of things that aren't going right can be put right if they are addressed quickly. If I seen a Lad missed a meeting I didn't take a lot of notice, if he missed two I asked his pals where he was at? If it went to three I called him or went to his house. Once I talked with him he could let me know if there was a real problem? Or if he was just being a lazy toad I gave him one the very long and very boring Eamonn speeches -Lads came back just so they didn't have to hear them. - I think it's called effective communication!! There were of course times when some Lads for some reason that I never really understood, just wanted to take a break?? And there were Lads who quit and changed their minds. Once they told me they had quit. The clock stopped running and didn't start again till they came back. I don't see that a Lad can tell me that he has quit in January and then come back five months later and pick up as if nothing has happened. It don't work that way. If on the other hand there is a Lad that just looks in from time to time, not really quiting but not doing very much. I want to know why? Is it something that we are not doing right? Is there a real problem? Again we deliver this program to one Lad at a time, we are there to serve him and guide him. Meeting with him, hearing what he has to say and not waiting for five or six months to talk to him will prevent this active thing from becoming a problem Eamonn.

Here I go sticking my neck out -Yet again. Years ago on Sundays the BBC (who I used to work for.) Used to have an hour of Religious programing. It became known as the "God Spot" Most of the hour was spent on a program called Hymns of Praise. The powers that be would pick a church and just about all the churches from all the different denominations would attend an evening service of singing hymns. Really low cost programing!! As a kid I would watch just to see what silly hats the old ladies were wearing!! Sometimes they would go to a small village church and at times they would go to a big Cathedral. In between the singing they would interview people from the area. One day they were in Liverpool. Liverpool is a city with two cathedrals.The program was from the Anglican Cathedral, which is the largest cathedral in Britain,The bells have the highest and heaviest peal in the world. There are two pipe organs in Liverpool Cathedral. The Grand Organ is the largest in the UK and probably the largest operational organ in the world.The organ has 9765 pipes. At the time of the program the Roman Catholic Cathedral (Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral of Christ the King) was being rebuild.. The crew went and interviewed some of the guys working on the construction. The interview has became almost a legend. The question was "Why are you working here?" The first guy said that he had a wife and kids and needed the money. The second guy said that he was single and needed the cash for his cigarettes and beer. The third said he was building a cathedral where people would come and praise the Lord. This has been used as a Scoutmaster minute. But before we break out into a chorus of Kum-by-ya. Let's for a minute think that the Beer and Ciggie guy was a master craftsman, who did excellent work and that the "Cathedral Builder Guy" messed everything up. Most of us never know why people choose to volunteer to help with Scouting. I for one don't care!! If someone is doing a good job, living the Scout Oath and Law, what difference does why he does it make? Last time I looked Uriah Heep hadn't added being ''umble'' to the Scout Law. If the person who does the best job has an ego as big as the great outdoors and wants all the awards, bells, beads and knots that's up to him or her. At the end of the day it's performance that counts. Eamonn.

Hi LongHaul, While I know that you don't want the "Book Answer" I don't believe that you can deliver the program without having the books. I happen to really think that most of us know when we are not following the program. I like the Vision Statement and really like the idea of Offering young people responsible fun and adventure.That's why they joined in the first place! I tend to look at that as the "Game" and the other stuff that the vision and mission statement brings up as the "Purpose". I liked the welcome to the Boy Scouts Of America that Ben Love wrote, but page one of todays Boy Scout Handbook does a good job. A lot of the things that we tend to get stuck on or see as hang-ups?? Are in fact tools that we should be trying to use to get to where we are going. Right now we have just started a Sea Scout Ship, the Lads do not have uniforms and there is a lot of things that we should be doing but aren't. All of these things are known and are goals, some will be reached fairly quickly, some may take years and some may never be perfected, but we are doing our best. We are playing the game and like most units using a stealth approach to ensure that the other important part of Scouts and Scouting is "Up there" and getting through that part of course is the purpose. I'm not sure why? But a lot of us seem to so worried the consequences of not doing things right or by the book, but in reality the real consequences can only be seen through the youth we serve. It would seem very obvious to me that when we talk about "Invisible Scouts" that the youth we are trying to serve don't think that the program offers enough fun and adventure and whatever we are doing isn't working. When I see Eagle Mills that hand out Merit Badges that are without merit, we have put the purpose on the very back burner with the burner out. Some people think that the program doesn't go far enough and they feel that they need to add bits and pieces to it. I don't think they do this because they want to be mean. Some do it because they just don't know that it's not right and some do it because they think that they are right. In most cases the youth we serve will decide if they want to accept or refuse these "Add-ons". If they refuse and quit because of them we end up delivering nothing to no one. A lot of what the youth see as the Scouting Program is the delivery person. The Adults that are there week in and week out, these people are the BSA to that kid. We all may have different reasons for doing what we do for Scouts and Scouting. Some people have great skills that they want to share and pass on. Some see working with Scouts and Scouting as them doing their little bit to save the world. Some people are like me they just enjoy the company of both the youth and the adults that Scouting attracts and a few of us have been around so long that we can't imagine life without Scouting. Still in the eyes of the youth we are Scouting what we do and what we offer is to them the Scouting program. How we present it and how we make use of all the resources that are out there is in our hands. Eamonn.

Help me up as I climb back on the old milk crate! I am 100% for us supporting the Council, we after all are the Council. Hopefully at the end of the day we are the people who benefit from whatever benefits the Council receives from any income that comes in, be it from FOS or from the sales of popcorn. Feelings about the popcorn sale differ from Unit to unit. I had a SM pop in last night who hates popcorn, hates the popcorn sale, but the Troop still supports the sale. I talked on the phone to another SM, who loves popcorn the unit he is with look at the popcorn sale as one of their big fund raising events of the year (The other Troop has a monthly hoagie sale.) I know how much our Council depends on the popcorn sale. In these times when money seems to be tighter than ever we just couldn't provide the level of service that is expected without it. With this in mind, I would want to see us sell every can or box of popcorn that we could. I would want to make selling it as easy and user friendly for the Scout and the unit as possible. When we start upsetting the people who really don't like the sale any way we will lose them and the income that they bring in. Like all fund raisers the popcorn sale is work. When units look at the sale they make a lot of decisions: Will we make money? How much work is involved? Is it worth it? As a District we have a popcorn goal. As Chairman I really want us to meet or beat the goal. The District Finance Committee is responsible for doing everything they can to ensure that we do meet the goal. They work hard trying to make sure that we do. They hold an ice cream social which is really a Popcorn training and sign up. They work hard finding a good time and place for the popcorn pick up. The Popcorn Chair and the committee tabulates all the orders. Come the day of the pick up units arrive and line up. Of course life would be easier if everyone loaded only full cases, but that isn't being user friendly. At the end of the pick up the worst thing that could happen would be for us to have opened cases of each product, but it would only ever be one of each. As a rule, because I live in the center of the District and not far from the pick up site, I take the leftovers home (Along with the orders that haven't been picked up!!) I know that once the units dole out the popcorn to the Scouts they will find that someone has messed up and need an extra can or box. Later in the week I drop off the popcorn at the Service Center. We only have four Districts, so the most that the Council can have returned is four partial cases of each product. This is used for gifts or sold. Of course not every district has partial cases and there isn't partial cases of each product. It could be that there is only a few cans or boxes. When you think of the volume of sales (Over $650,000) it is a very small amount. But if units who sold only five cans out of a case of six and let it be known that if they were unable to get what they want, that they will not order the five! I kinda think that someone would get the message. If the plan was to force units to buy more and it ended up back firing someone is going to look very silly. Eamonn.

Help me up as I climb back on the old milk crate!

SemperParatus Is a desk sitting dweeb related in any way to the classic Twit? Eamonn.

I have been around when units come to pick up their popcorn orders and while loose cans are a pain, at the end of the day it seems to work out. Sure at times there might be a few cases that are half full and need to be returned to the Service Center. I would call both the District and Council Popcorn Chairs and let them know how sad I am that I'm having to cut peoples orders because I'm rounding down!! That ought to put the cat among the pigeons!! Eamonn.

I do have the syllabus for District Committee Training and when I find it I will post the #. Most often the Council Chair of whatever District position you hold will present the session that deals with that area. Council Advancement Chairman will Train District Advancement Committee and so on. ScoutingEMT, I'm sure you are keen and willing volunteer, but before you get in over your head, I think that you might want to take the time to take a long hard look at where you are going. My term of serving as a District Committee member is about to end. I have served my three years as District Chairman,if you were on our District Committee and took on being a Scoutmaster I would ask you to step down from the District Committee. Serving as an SM is way far more important than serving on the District Committee and I think that Unit Leaders need to concentrate on leading the unit. One of the main things that a District Committee does is support the units in the District, if the committee is made up of unit leaders, it can't support them.In fact it is hurting the units. Very often a willing and keen volunteer like yourself will jump right in and before long is doing way too much. Sadly the next thing that happens is burn out. This harms everyone and the more hats you are wearing the more harm it causes. You really might want to sit down and think about what you see yourself doing in five years, where will you do the most good? If there is a Mrs.ScoutingEMT it is very wise to talk things over with her and find out what her feelings are. For a very long time I was guilty of thinking that Scouting came first and I had to be at every event and every meeting, it wasn't until Her That Must Be Obeyed became ill that I seen what I was doing was not in keeping with the Scout Oath and Law and if I wasn't keeping them at home with my family I was in fact a fraud. Sometimes the best thing we can do for Scouting is not to take too much on and learn to say no. Eamonn.

I'm sorry I think that you have a much bigger problem than the Patrol Method. Maybe it's time to ask the really hard question; Why do the Scouts not want to attend the meetings? What can be done to make each and every meeting the Best Show In Town? Once you are providing a program that offers fun and adventure for all the Scouts, you will see that they will want to attend. Sure we will always have Lads that are in the band or playing sports or doing whatever, but they will still want to be part of the Troop. Eamonn.

Trying to answer "What is a Scouter?" Is like trying to answer "What is a bird?" Just when you think you have it all worked out along comes the duck-billed platypus! I like Wood Badge, I like uniforms, I even like kids!! But I have known and do know people who do a lot for Scouting and the BSA who don't wear uniforms, have never been to Wood Badge and left alone with a bunch of kids would return them a few short!! I think the only way to be safe would be to say that a Scouter in the BSA is a person who is helping the BSA move toward meeting what the BSA outlines in the vision and mission statements and lives by the Scout Oath and Law. Eamonn.

If you are unhappy with any BSA uniform item send it back and they will replace it. Eamonn.

I think if you read http://www.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/13-500.pdf material you will see that it is for the pack (There is also another one for a Troop.) We talk a lot about selecting Quality Leaders and then seem happy to take the first person who comes along. There are some who will say that there are far too many steps or just plain don't like. But I found it to work really well and far better than begging, pleading and browbeating. Eamonn.

mbscoutmom I never seem to have much luck with links to the BSA Site!! But if this works I feel sure you will find it helpful. http://www.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/13-500.pdf Eamonn.

I really enjoyed the stuff that Barry posted - But please don't tell him!! I think I kinda have a problem with the "Scout Led" and "Boy Led" terminology!! I much prefer using "The Patrol Method". I know that this might seem like splitting hairs, but I think that we have to be a little careful that we don't confuse the two. Of course I'm 100% behind the "Train Them, Trust Them, Let Them Lead" philosophy. I just worry that when we use Boy led or Scout Led that we might forget the "Train Them" bit!! Starting with such a small group and not having a tradition of proper use of the PLC is hard. It is however really important. Your big job is training the youth leaders. Most SM's try and do everything. Don't fall into that trap. Let the other adults do what they should be doing. You have to work on training the members of the PLC. You might want to spend a little time telling the other adults, that the new catch phrase in Troop 123 is "Have You asked your Patrol Leader?" I know it sounds silly but most adults want to help and when asked will dive right in or answer the question, but having them understand the right way is very important. If you can get the video tapes from Scoutmaster Fundamentals take them home and view them again, there is some really good stuff in there that often get missed when you view it with a group. Don't ever be scared of holding people accountable for what they are supposed to do. If they do it praise the heck out of them, recognize a job done well. Not only the big things, but the small things as well. Scouts need to know when they have done well, kids of Scout age are really eager to please. A few kind words of earned praise go a very long way. Of course then there is the other side of the coin -when things don't go well or as they should. When this happens I found the best thing to do was ask questions and not get on their case. Scouts can be a lot tougher on themselves than I ever could!! Still when they mess up I have to think what could I have done that would have helped him do his job? Not do it for him, but what support didn't I give him? What would have made a difference? It's strange I use much the same skills with the District Committee. If I ask or someone offers to do something, I will make sure that I call them or meet with them just to see how things are coming along and see if they need any help or support. As for the District stuff! I would take plenty of NO notice. Eamonn.