Eamonn

Hi, Photos of the safety at sea weekend that we attended this past weekend can be seen by following the link below. Eamonn. http://groups.msn.com/BoyScouts/seascoutssafetyatseaweekend.msnw

I am really happy that you and yours are OK. Eamonn.

Back in the day ..... We the Patrols took charge of collecting the weekly dues. It never was a big deal. Eamonn.

The evil buck? No Way!! I like money. I have been almost busted a few times and it's no fun. We are about teaching young people how to make ethical decisions. Money comes under that heading. As does a Scout is Thrifty. How do you do the budget before you do the Annual Plan? Eamonn

I have for over 20 years made teaching Americans how to speak good English like I dozz a goal!! Eamonn.

I think we can only deal with each post as it is posted!! While I have gained a lot from these forums, I don't take anything that isn't linked to a BSA site or publication as being so with out checking. I do express my feelings and my opinion. I don't try and set myself up as being the final word. Of course what we see in very often very one sided and only half the story. As for you not getting your point across?? I think I could (Am??) guilty of seeing what I want to see. Eamonn.

I used to tease my dearly departed Mother about how she always managed to get things wrong. It seems that yet again I have not seen what Venividi was getting at. I was looking at the support that is out there that will help a leader. It seems he is asking do we do all we can to back up the SM, in times of conflict or when things don't go as planned or when parents are upset. I know that in thread that ran a week or so back, there was a question about a Scoutmaster who hadn't signed off on a Scoutmaster Conference. The support offered here depends on who is asking. Clearly the Boy and the Parent were upset. Clearly the SM was not in the right. A lot depends on what happens next. If the SM refuses to sign off, the best thing for the Lad and is parent is to get out of that unit ASAP. No good will come from them staying there. If the SM asks "Am I wrong?" and some one who knows and understands the program takes the time to clearly and politely explain what he is doing isn't right. He has got the support that he needs. What he does then is the big $64,000 question. He can do nothing. He can see that he was not right and still do nothing, but decide that he will start to follow the program. Or he can go back to the Lad and the parent and say that he now sees what he did was not right and then take it from there. My views change depending on what "Hat" I'm wearing. As the Dad of a Lad in the program, I think the best thing that the Lad can do is find a new Troop. As a District Scouter, I would want to do all I could to show in a nice way that what the Scoutmaster did was not right and explain to him why it wasn't right. Some Leaders are OK with hearing this and take kindly to it. Some are just pig-headed and want to not follow the program and continue to do what they want. Supporting these Leaders is almost impossible as they are not following the program. Sure they may give up time, sure they might be nice people. But they are not playing the game by the rules. While not knowing is one thing. That can be fixed. But the people who choose not to follow the program can't expect anyone to back them up or support them. Eamonn.

I'm not sure I understand the question or what you are trying to get at. I kinda think that might come later??? A youth member belongs to a unit, which is chartered by the BSA. So while the youth is a BSA member, the BSA is only providing the program, he or she is in fact a member of that organizations youth group.When I was a leader of a Cub Scout pack that had our local Catholic Church as the CO, I was in fact leading the church youth group. It just so happened that this church opted to use the Cub Scout program. The church could at anytime ask a person youth or adult to leave. While it never happened while I was Cubmaster, I suppose the church might have it's own reasons for asking someone to leave or it might act on the recommendation of the Pack Committee or the COR.Either way the church has the final word. The COR represents the Unit Executive Officer. If there would be any questions about why someone was asked to leave they would go to the COR or the Unit Executive Officer. The only other person who can remove a youth member from the BSA is the Scout Executive. He or she is not going to take this lightly and the parents would be involved. While I'm sure some unhappy parents might want to take it to the next or the highest level. I think (I'm not certain) that in nearly all cases the people above the Scout Executive, will side with the Scout Executive, maybe asking the Council Executive Board or Executive Committee to review what transpired. Eamonn.

Great!! Lets Keep'em coming. Eamonn.

To date my only dealings with Fetch are with Rory Robert, my ten month old Goldie and at times we have problems with that. Your small town has twice the amount of red lights that we have. Rory would love to tour Stoots and I have been known to enjoy the odd adult beverage. Great news that the Pack is doing well. Sorry about not knowing about Fetch. Welcome to the Forum. Eamonn.

Much as I hate to disagree with OGE. (I don't as a rule) And much as it may seem unfair. The SM is not the person who selects the Troop Leadership. If the CC and the COR no longer want this ASM working with the youth in the Troop, they represent the CO and that is the final word. He or She has to go. Of course the SM can do what he can to put in a good word and paint as good as picture as possible. But they have all the aces. Heck it's their deck. Eamonn.

All activity afloat must be supervised by a mature and conscientious adult age 21 or older who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of the children in his or her care, who is experienced and qualified in the particular watercraft skills and equipment involved in the activity, and who is committed to compliance with the nine points of BSA Safety Afloat. One such supervisor is required for each 10 people, with a minimum of two adults for any one group. At least one supervisor must be age 21 or older, and the remaining supervisors must be age 18 or older. All supervisors must complete BSA Safety Afloat and Safe Swim Defense training and rescue training for the type of watercraft to be used in the activity, and at least one must be trained in CPR. It is strongly recommended that all units have at least one adult or older youth member currently trained as a BSA Lifeguard to assist in the planning and conducting of all activity afloat. For Cub Scouts: The ratio of adult supervisors to participants is one to five. FROM THE G2SS. I think this answers the question about if the event should go ahead or not. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Kudu, If I did misread or misunderstand what you posted, please accept my apology. If we take out anything that you or anyone else might see to have any connection to leaping over open fires, which I think is my only reference to what you didn't say. Will you agree with what I posted on Sunday, 9/11/2005: 10:36:44 AM? Eamonn.

" When I asked specific parents to take these committee responsibilities, and their answers were "no", Why are you asking? This isn't your job. Leave it to the nominating committee, that's what they are there for. Eamonn.

many years back as a ticket item for the old Cub Scout Wood Badge, I undertook to do a inventory of training of all the Cub Scouters and Committee members in the District. This was in the days before scoutNET.What I had thought was going to be an easy task turned out to be a real chore. The records just weren't there. Once we got ScoutNET up and running I thought we had it made in the shade -Boy was I ever wrong. It seems the only real record of Training is taken from the Training Attendance Report, if that doesn't get to the right person and placed on the computer you are lost. No one seems to ever use the Fast Start Completion Report or the Training Status Change Report. I don't know how easy it is to get Trained Reports in your council? But trying to get our Council Registrar to use the Training Record Codes seems like a lost cause, maybe because there are approx 67 different codes. I looked at the District Charter and seen that I was listed as not being trained. I hope all these kinks are worked out before mandatory training comes to our neck of the woods. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

" It does beg the question as to whether everyone buys in to how the program is supposed work." While I can't talk for other people. I know that if I was presented with belonging to a program or an organization that I was unable to buy into I wouldn't want to join!! Over the years there have been people who have been unhappy with me. They have not agreed with things that I have done. However once I have shown them that this is how it is supposed to be done and I give them or show them where they can find where I'm right - I couldn't care less where they go or who they go to. It is one big benefit of having right on my side. Of course the boot also fits the other foot, there have been times when I have thought someone was wrong and they have shown me that I was wrong. Some of these times, I still might not agree with what has been done or what is going down, but they are in the right. Nearly all the people I know that serve on the District, Council level really do want to support all the adults who serve our youth. Even at times going so far to defend the person who makes a mess of things. While it might not be possible to defend what he or she has done, we will in most cases go to bat and explain that it was a mistake and that he or she didn't really mean any harm. Of course not every parent understands the program and how it is supposed to work. However most parents seem happy to allow the leaders to lead and are willing to ask questions when something comes along that they don't understand. Maybe I have just been very lucky!! When a parent has come to me I have told them how the program works and I also tell them if I have messed up. By being open and honest I like to think that I have earned their respect. But in order to show them how the program works I have to know how it works and I must fully have bought into it. I sure as heck am not about to apologize for the program or for my following it. Eamonn.

I am all for people being trained. I am not in favor of mandatory training. How an Insurance company would ever find out if a unit was following the program is a mystery to me. Heck when I was District Commissioner I had a Commissioner Staff and even then what some units were doing was an unknown factor. We already have certain mandatory training's listed on Tour Permits as is YP training. I hate to think that we might lose a Den Leader who is doing her best, working, looking after the house, raising a family, attending Leaders meetings because she can't make training sessions, Of course the answer is that the Training Team is there for her, but as yet there is no real Training Team position. Many or most District trainers are doing this on top of the other position that they hold. Before we start making Training's mandatory we might want to make sure that we have all of our ducks in a row!! Eamonn.

If people are not doing the job that they are supposed to be doing. How is anyone ever to know what support they need? Eamonn.

I don't see how explaining the program works or showing parents the literature is that hard. Of course if they are really that unhappy they can take their case to the Troop Committee. If Mr. Scoutmaster is following the program they just don't have a case. I think you need to take a long hard look at the role of the Scoutmaster. Selecting Adults is not there, leave that to the people who are charged with doing it, while you go about Training the PLC and delivering the program to the Scouts. Eamonn.

This is kinda of in answer to the post about holding the interest of Lads who have been in the program for a while. I remember how excited my son was when the time came to cross over and join the Troop. Everything was going to be new and the promise of new adventures lay ahead. Summer camp was a great adventure. Not just because of the program, but also because he got to be in charge of things that up until then Her Who Must Be Obeyed or myself took charge of. He had his own spending money which he could spent any which way he wanted without having to justify what he spent it on. He could or could not take a shower it was his choice. Little things like lighting a fire, cooking, going out in the woods held his imagination. Heck he even liked wearing his Scout uniform!! (Now he take the shirt in the car and puts it on just before he needs to wear it.) Of course in time many of the things that were so very exciting became old hat. Very much: Been there, done that and have the t-shirt. Holding the interest of Lads who have been around for a while isn't always easy. In fact it can be a big challenge. This is where Imagineering comes in to play. At times it seems that we do the same old same old. In fact when I talk to older Scouts this is something that I hear a lot. We need to look at what we are doing and find a way of making it a little different. A little while back our District Activities Chair was looking for a way to spice up a District Camporee. He ended up planning and having all the activities done at night in the dark. He added secret passwords and codes. The Scouts really thought it was great and something different. Adding a new slant or some spice to an activity is what Imagineering is all about. Listening to what the Scouts want to do is vital. At times we have to alter their ideas and maybe meet them half way, but having them think that we are following what they want to do really adds a lot of interest. At times we the adults need to try and see things through the eyes of the people we are serving. Even if it means them doing things that we might dislike. I hate bicycling, but we have some great bike trails, having them do the trail and meet me along the way for ice cream at a place where I can pull my car in. Lets them do something that they want to do and I don't have to ride a bike!! Imagineering can be applied to almost every activity. First Aid: Have the older scouts work on making realistic looking wounds, chicken bones and fake blood add a lot. Cooking: There is no end to the Imagineering that can be added, cooking ethnic foods, having a real feast, having a knights of the Roundtable banquet, which is historically correct (There goes the potatoes and the tomatoes!!) Cooking suckling pigs, seafood, cooking with certain types of equipment or with no equipment. OJ camped with a Troop from outside London the other year he got to sleep in a Bivy, he thought this was neat. I agree with Kudu that we need to add a lot more activity to our weekly troop meetings, they need to be fun. We are only ever as good as our last meeting. May you might want to add an idea of how we could spice things up or add a twist to the things that we do? Eamonn.

While I'm sure things vary from District to District and from Council to Council. I believe that the program isn't that hard and that help of almost any kind is there for the asking. Most and I say most, not all problems arise out of people not following the program. While some people might disagree I think that the BSA does a wonderful job with the literature it puts out. While there is some debate about the effectiveness of the Commissioner Staff, most Districts are made up of capable Scoutmasters who are more than willing and able to offer a helping hand or give advise. Sad to say there are a few adult leaders who do ask the questions but when they don't like or don't want to like the answer decide to do things their own way. While this at times does work, mostly they end up digging a bigger hole. One of the last things that Wood Badge participants hear before departing from the course is that Training never ends. I can't help feeling that this puts an onus on all of us to ensure that we are delivering the program of the BSA as it is written. Sure there are times when all of us don't understand or misunderstand things, we are after all human. However if we keep an open mind and really try to see what the program is about and what the literature is really saying, if need be asking for help when needed, I believe that there is a lot of support out there. Of course the people that serve at the District and Council level do always need to strive to do a better job of supporting the people who do the really important work with the youth members. Eamonn.

Welcome to the 1st Gilwell. Eamonn.

Seems that National or who ever was out of Sea Scout manuals. At long last mine arrived today. I was a little worried about spending almost $140.00 (I ordered ten) But wow!! What a book!! I really think it's about the best BSA publication that I have ever laid my paws on. I'm a little unsure if I'm ever going to be able to take it all in. But I'm sure the Lads and I are going to have fun trying. Even if your not in Sea Scouting it is worth the money. Eamonn.

20. What decline? You don't know how much I wish I could say that!! Sad to say membership is not looking good. At this time I'm unable to find where I hid the August national membership report. But looking at the Northeast Region. Traditional Membership --June 2004 June 2005 Tiger Cubs 5,468 5,076 Cub Scouts 125,826 120,045 Webelos Scouts 137,985 131,688 Total Cub Age 269,279 256,809 Boy Scouts 178,443 174,069 Varsity Scouts 1,192 1,901 Total Scout Age 180,355 175,970 Venturers 35,454 31,825 Total Traditional 485,088 464,604 We have a wonderful fellow on our Area Committee who must crunch numbers for a living, he puts out reports that show trends and three year trends and all sorts of interesting reports. I'm not that clever. When I look at this report I see some things that really do concern me. 5,076 Tiger Cubs in the entire Northeast Region? What happened to Spring round-up? If a tiny District like the one I serve can recruit almost 50 Tiger Cubs, where the heck was the rest of the Region? Venturers down from 35,454 to 31,825 a drop of 10.2%. That has to a red flag. However on the bright side Boy Scout numbers are only down by 2.5%, which if you take into account that Cub Scout numbers have been on the decline for a while, must mean that something is working. I have no idea why the Venturering numbers are going down? I think the problem lies with the Cub Scouting program. We in my book seem to do a good job of recruiting Cub Scout age boys, we just don't seem to be able to keep them in the program. While there are lots of great and very dedicated Den Leaders out there working away with these little fellows, I think we need to take a long hard look at who is delivering the program. My mother-in-law was a Den Mother, in fact she is very proud of having been one. She was a stay at home Mom and having six or eight little fellows invade her house every week wasn't that big a deal. In fact she along with the other Den Mothers met once a week over coffee to plan and talk about what they would be doing with the Dens. When I look at what is happening today, I see that the Dens are no longer meeting in the homes of the Den Leaders, yet the homes are far bigger? The Den Leader is rushing home from work to run the Den meeting.Dens seem to be a lot bigger than they ought to be, mainly because there seems to be a lack of Den Leaders. Many of the Den Leaders I talk with just can't wait till the end of the year when they can bow out. I've lost count of the times that I've heard "I can't wait till I'm done!" It seems to me that we are lost in the 50's. Sure the program is a lot of fun for the Cub Scouts and the Lads that are fortunate enough to have the die hard Cub Scouters will have a grand time, but how many Lads are having the program delivered by a parent who is so stressed out that the last thing they need at the end of the day is 12 or 15 boisterous little Lads of Cub Scout age? Could it be that we need to look at more pack meetings and less Den meetings? That Venturering number, has really got me puzzled!! Eamonn. (This was in neat little rows when I posted it!! I don't know if the Northeast Region is a good representative of the National membership numbers.)(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Some years back I participated in a conference about Commissioner Service at Philmont. Her Who Must Be Obeyed and Number One Son were there with me.During the course of the week we became friendly with a young married couple that were also from Pennsylvania. I was surprised to see them both as participants on a Wood Badge course where I was serving as a Troop Guide. She was a member of the Eagle Patrol and he was a member of the Beaver Patrol, the patrol that I had been assigned too. The Beavers were by far the first patrol to come together, they were very loud, very boisterous and a very nice group of guys. The Patrol was made up of four very active and well skilled Boy Scouters, one Cub Scouter and my friend from Philmont who was the Council Vice President for Venturing in his council. The Cub Scouter really struggled with writing his ticket. I think in part because he was suffering from information over load. The Boy Scouters, seemed to get it and for the most part took it in their stride. The V-P worked on his for hour after hour (It was a week long course) When he was done it was almost as big as a book. I know I had to read it. It was very clear that he knew what he needed to do in order to help Venturing grow and prosper in the council where he was from. Much of his Ticket was about getting reports and writing plans. He wasn't serving at the unit level and was not part of delivering the program to the youth members. Still it was a wonderful ticket. He was done in under six months. I was surprised when I didn't receive an invite to his Wood Badge presentation, within the year. I did receive one eventually. He waited till his wife had completed her ticket, she served as a Cub Scout round-table commissioner. NeilLup has hit the nail on the head when he says:"The goal is a reasonable ticket in the time required to complete that reasonable ticket." Eamonn.