Eamonn

Her Who Must Be Obeyed is on the loose!! At supper tonight. Which was not at our usual time thanks to OJ being a budding thespian and the school play starting in two days. He was rushing out to a Council Camping meeting and I was meeting with our Boatswain's Mate to get her application for SEAL started. Anyway at supper Her Who Must Be Obeyed was telling me about the plans for the Council Recognition Dinner. It seems that as chairman she volunteered not only my services as MC, but also volunteered the services of the Ship. This year the Dinner committee want to recognize new leaders, people with one to five years service who are trained. I think this is a good idea and I'm all for it. But... She went on to say that it is time the old timers like me and she went on to name a handful of people who I think do wonderful work in and for the Council.Stood down and gave new people the opportunity to lead the Council.. I pointed out to Her that I no longer serve at the District level and I'm not sure if after the meeting tomorrow if I will still be on the board any more? In fact I might just be a Sea Scout Leader and a Council Member At Large. I think maybe she hurt my pride!! Or maybe my ego. Anyway it started the little gray cells working. The meeting OJ was going to was the Program Group Meeting. Presided over by the Council Vice President of Program. They normally meet as one big group and then break off into: Training, Advancement, Activities, Camping, and I forget what else. The Council Chairs meet with the District Chairs. It seemed odd for me to drop OJ off and not be part of the action!! As I drove to the door there was a real old timer. A super nice fellow but to be honest he can be a bit of a pain. He goes on and on about how it used to be. He hates any sort of change and I don't think he has been around youth other than at OA weekends (When he tells everyone how it used to be and what a bad job the youth Officers are doing.) He was standing all alone outside of the school where the meeting was being held. OJ, seen him and said "It's old name." I thought back to Her That Must Be Obeyed and her comments at supper. I couldn't help but wonder if the day will come when people think of me the same way as I think of this poor old soul? Already I'm hearing comments that I'm not doing enough for the District (Heck my term only ended 30 days ago!). To be really honest I'm having a great time with the Ship and I'm really loving working with the Scouts again. I have a couple of years left on the Area Committee, but I could very easily and would be happy to let any new person or group take on any of the things I used to do. I do think that Her Who Must Be Obeyed has a point. In fact as I look at the 17 and 18 year olds in the Ship, I can see them one day doing their bit. I see the up and coming new Council and District leaders. Many of them I trained!! I know that they will do things that I might not like or would have done a different way. I promised myself that I will on no account voice my opinion. While I know that I'm very lucky to have the Ship and the Scouts in the Ship. We have a lot of people who serve the Council well and have done so for a very long time. I don't think just replacing them to make room for new blood is such a good idea and it wouldn't be very kind. And then there is the question about who will MC her darn dinner?? Eamonn.

"Trails End Popcorn is the National Fundraiser for BSA." No it isn't. Budgeting is never easy. Sadly to many people seem to think that once passed or accepted a budget is some sort of unmovable, unchangeable, non-negotiable thing. As a business owner, I was constantly changing our budget. Some (not all) of the problems that the council I'm in are due to bad budgeting. Lees money coming in than expected and more going out! The budget is put together by the Council Executive. I do question what real training they have to do this? Most professional Scouters I know don't have a business or an accounting background. Very few know very much about grant writing. I at times think the BSA is completely daffy. A council here is PA was unhappy with their SE. I had met him and worked with him on a few things. He is a super, really nice fellow. But he just wasn't bringing home the bacon. The money just wasn't coming in. Meeting were held with the Council President and the Council key 3. The writing was on the wall, he was warned and re-warned. When it looked like he was going to be fired he found another position within the BSA. Working in one of the big metro councils as the Finance Director!! Eamonn.

While a little off topic. Some years back I was staffing a Cub Scout course. These courses were done at the Regional level. Our Cubmaster was from the Transatlantic Council and was active in the army. She was an outstanding Cub Scouter who had a wonderful insight into the program. But she had her moments. One day I was rushing to get something done. I walked passed her and she called me back. He looked at me and I looked at her. Without saying another word she informed me that I looked unloved and needed to go and iron my neckerchief. I was flabbergasted and it was one of the very few times that I was lost for words. Unloved -I wonder if I were to use that line with the Sea Scouts if it would work? Eamonn.

Hi Region 7 Voyageur I admit that when I wear a necker with the beads I Wood Badge on first then the necker, twist the leather and then kind of thread the necker through the loop made. I have read somewhere that the beads are supposed to hang loose. I have had a lot of old timers (Yes older than I!!) Tell me this. I tried to find out where this came from? It didn't come from Gilwell -I asked. I really think it is just something like the Scouts traveling in uniform that belongs in the myth categoric. If however you are wearing something else around your neck (Silver Beaver,etc)The Wood Badge should go on last and be worn freely. I don't know why but somehow the title of this thread makes me smile. There is an Irish poem which talks about old people fingering the beads. Of course it is referring to Rosary beads. Back home where more people wear neckers, Wood Badge beads are worn with any necker. Eamonn. Hey ozemu I'd be interested to hear about the Wood Badge course that you have in your part of the world. Do you still have Patrols? If so what are they? Or are they like they used to be back home not a set like we have in the USA? Is the course a practical type course or more of a leadership course?

OldEagle4Life It is of course sad when for one reason or another the system isn't allowed to work. First I think in this thread as I see it?? We have to take a signed blue card for what it is. It would be very unfair to blame the Scout for something that the adults have failed to do. As for camps, I don't know what goes on at other camps. I do however know that every year in our council the Advancement Committee does send a group up to camp to try and make sure that the staff are knowledgeable and have some idea of how to get the subject across. Sure it's only half a day, but along with talking with the staff they report to the Program Director. I'm happy that your council has found a way of keeping the cost of camp low and making money. Sadly we lost a lot of money last year at camp. I do agree that summer camp does seem to be all about nothing but badge work. I somehow think that changing the mindset of some Scoutmasters and a lot of parents is a lost cause. It really saddens me when I hear the parents of little Lads about ready to cross over shop for Troops that have really high Eagle Scout percentages. Maybe we need to do a better job of explaining that there are other important methods in Scouting along with Advancement. I have in the past posted my feelings about not paying camp staff enough. So I'm not going to go over it again. Eamonn.

For the most part I agree with you. Subtracting from the requirements is every bit as bad as adding to them. I might add that I'm no great lover of one day merit badge fairs and Scouts doing all the merit badge work in house. I also don't think that Troop meetings are the place for merit badge work. However I can't help but think you are wrong when you post: "How many of us hold our summer camps accountable" You go on to talk about individual Scouts demonstrating requirements. I'm not sure what requirements you mean? Merit Badge Counselors are approved by the District and Council Advancement Committees. It makes no difference if they are on the Merit Badge List or are employed at summer camp. It is the job of the advancement committee to ensure that Merit Badge Counselors are doing the job right. When it comes to signing things off, I found the best way was to have someone who knows the skill teach the Scout and do his or her best to make sure he gets it. Then have the Scout come to the person who is doing signing off and ask if he can demonstrate the skill to him. Then it becomes a very simple he does it successfully and the birds sing in the trees or he doesn't get it right and it is shown to him again maybe using different techniques or different ways. Then it is up to the Scout to come back and ask if he can demonstrate it again. Of course a well balanced Scout program will allow Scouts to put the skills they have used to use and build upon them. Some Sea Scouting material does suggest that the best way to ensure that a skill has been mastered is to teach it to someone else. I kind of think this would be adding a requirement. By far the best method of getting requirements done correctly is "Stealth Learning" This is where a Scout discovers skills and masters them without knowing that he is meeting the requirements. It does at times require good record keeping by someone. Eamonn.

Thanks Sue. scoutldr Our Council does not have an attorney on retainer. We have several that are unit volunteers or board members. The last time we were taken to court National decided the Law Firm that would represent us. The firm was a bigger one than you might find in our neck of the woods. The Lawyers that sit on the board were of the opinion that $450.00 an hour wasn't out of line! I know what the big law firms in the UK charge and $450.00 an hour would be very cheap. I haven't really done much to find out what the fee from the Harry Fox is, I think it's under $300.00 and then so much per song. The bad thing seems to be that no one company is handling all the songs and you could pay the fee only to find that the song you want isn't on their list. Down loading and copying music from the Internet has really muddied the waters as far as I can tell no one has as yet decided what "Fair use" really means. Eamonn.

Hi John, I really think this is a case of "Ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise" I feel sure that none of the practicing attorneys in my small town would be able to give you the right answer. I ran into several problems when we had our restaurants. We had to pay ASCAP and BMI a fee to play the music, either on the radio/ juke box or live band. You might want to visit http://www.harryfox.com/songfile/public/publicsearch.jsp Some years back ASCAP made the news headlines when it asked the Girl Scouts to buy licenses for camps to cover the rights for songs sang at camp fires. I was watching a news show the other day and it seems that a new storm is brewing about people selling preloaded Ipods? I do know that I paid the BSA a fee when I was a Wood Badge Course Director to cover the copyright on the movies. I will try and find out how much it was exactly but I seem to remember it was about $10.00 per participant. One reason the Wood Badge Staff guide was hard to get and then revised was because of the copyright license agreement that the BSA had with the company that represents Ken Blanchard. While I of course don't want to see you posting from a jail cell and I would never tell anyone to break the law. I do think when you see the time it takes and the costs involved you might decide that it isn't worth it for 100 CD's. Or you might just plead ignorance -It isn't any real defense, but if you don't know you might be able to sleep better. Of course maybe we need to see if Councils would buy a license that might cover all the copies. Eamonn.

I can find lots of referances on line to the BSA Lifeguard Counselor Guide, but so far I haven't been able to find the requirements. Any help would be great. Thanks Eamonn.

I can tell none of you are married to Her Who Must Be Obeyed!! To open a new pack before the old one is done, is to take a great risk. Rory loves the chips in the bottom of the bag. Eamonn (Does this means he is a conservative?)

Is it worth the waiting for? If we live 'til eighty four All we ever get is gru...el! Ev'ry day we say our prayer -- Will they change the bill of fare? Still we get the same old gru...el! There is not a crust, not a crumb can we find, Can we beg, can we borrow, or cadge, But there's nothing to stop us from getting a thrill When we all close our eyes and imag...ine Food, glorious food! Hot sausage and mustard! While we're in the mood -- Cold jelly and custard! Pease pudding and saveloys! What next is the question? Rich gentlemen have it, boys -- In-di-gestion! Food, glorious food! We're anxious to try it. Three banquets a day -- Our favourite diet! OK you have three guesses what the O in OJ stands for? We used to have coffee and cheap cookies. But the Cub Scout R/T Commissioner died. We really didn't want to go to his widow and ask for the return of the coffee pot. Then the District Commissioner (The one we removed) got the idea that R/T's ought to be more fun. We always had a Corn Roast in August. The District provided corn on the cob and hot dogs. We charged $2.00 to cover the cost and people were invited to bring a covered dish. We also used to have a covered dish supper in May. This was the last meeting till August. This new guy started an Ice cream social in October. A "Sweet So Sweet" dessert contest in December, a anything goes adult pine-wood derby in January. This sounds like fun, but attendance went down. Along the way we lost sight of the reason why we hold r/t meetings. The new District Commissioner, who was a Cub Scouter has found a R/T Commissioner who is bringing back some reason to attend. Sadly there isn't a Boy Scout R/T Commissioner, so SM's are volunteering to take a month. We only have one active Crew and the new Ship in the District so we don't have a R/T for Venturing. The SPL meeting has started to fall apart, mainly because the adults are not allowing the SPL's to organize and run events, the Scouts see it as a waste of time. I was happy with the cheap cookies. Eamonn.

I was reading :Needed officers lost under military gay policy. A AP news story on MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11017491/ This story states: 244 medical and health professionals discharged from 1994 through 2003 under the policy that allows gays and lesbians to serve as long as they abstain from homosexual activity and do not disclose their sexual orientation. Congress approved the policy in 1993. Here is where I'm a little confused. How is this policy different than the BSA policy? I understand that the BSA uses the different language, but it seems to me to amount to the same thing. I would think if organizations like the ACLU wanted to fight what they see as the good fight, their time would be better spent tackling the Pentagons policy on gays rather then the BSA. Am I missing something? If so what? I'm not looking for any argument about if we should or shouldn't allow gay leaders, but it just seems to me that these organizations are worried about a hang nail when the patient isn't breathing. Eamonn.

Boy Scouts' values never go out of style? Someone once wrote that we spend our lives at the back of the church, the front of the bus and live in the middle of the road. But getting back to "Boy Scouts' values never go out of style" It is nice to see Scouting receiving some good ink. I have just recently been asked to sit on the board of a foundation. It is new to me. So in an effort not to come off seeming like a complete twit I have been looking at other foundations. Sadly nearly all the ones I have looked at have wording in the literature that they give grant seekers that would exclude BSA based organizations. I'm not in any way saying that we need to lower our standards or move full speed ahead to make changes. I do however think that we need to let the people who are donating money to these foundations that because of the wording Boy Scouts are not receiving any of the available funds. I spoke with a very wealthy business man, who gives away millions of dollars to different organizations and serves on the foundation based in the county next to the one where I live. He is a very big supporter of Scouting. When I asked him what he felt about the foundation that he donates a considerable amount of money to, sits on the board and doesn't fund any BSA projects. He said that he didn't know that the language was there. He wasn't very happy. We need to really start making our case and do a better job of telling it like it is. Eamonn.

Take a minute to enjoy being footloose and fancy free. Dig out that old Wood Badge Ticket. Now might be the time to give some real hard thought to what your new vision and your new mission is going to be? Hey your bowling days are over!! And " I'm basically going to help the SM" isn't going to cut it!! You can do better than that!! Having gone through Wood Badge, paid all that hard earned money - To just tag along is a waste. Sit down pour your-self a nice beverage and write down some goals. There are enough people that can be recruited to just help the SM. But you will do more for the youth we serve if you think about what you can do and what you want to do to make things better. Eamonn.

Sad to say Wood Badge beads are never worn with the Sea Scout uniform. However I'm with Aardvark my beads go on whenever I wear the tan shirt. I was very disappointed with the woggles that Gilwell Park is trying to sell. Back in the day .. I seem to have heard that the leather was the same as was used in Singer Sewing Machines. I have a nasty habit of "Bead Twirling" It drives everyone around me nuts. I have read that wile it is OK to wear your beads by them selves. It is frowned upon to not wear the Woggle and Neckerchief and beads as a set. I only wear the full set to Wood Badge functions. Eamonn.

Ron, I think I'm reading that you are willing to take on the role of SM? I'm sure you have talked this over with your son and your good Lady. Your next move has to be to find out what the CO wants to do with the present SM? Of course I don't know how you feel? But I would want him gone completely and I'd make this a condition of my becoming SM. I'm not sure I would make being small my big sale. Sure I'd mention to parents the advantages of not being big, but young Lads join for fun and adventure. Your selling point has to be that Troop 123 really is the best show in town. A very long time ago (I hate to admit it was almost 30 years!!) I returned to the Troop where I had been a Scout. Sadly there were no Scouts -Not a one. I was in our Scout HQ and two Lads who I think we might say were from the wrong side of the tracks came in. They spent the night kicking a indoor soccer ball around. The following week there were four Lads kicking a soccer ball. I made mention of the fact that we were supposed to be a Scout Troop, but I didn't push it. Soon the District indoor five a side soccer competition came along. I made it clear that only invested Scouts could play. Which was true!! We entered and won. - Why wouldn't we they had done very little else for about two months!! That summer we camped with another local Troop. The SM took me under his wing, as I was a young (very young!!) leader. He is still active. As a Group Scout Leader http://www.2ndcuddingtonscouts.org.uk/index2frameset.htm Thankfully the Troop he served was at the other end of the District. This meant that we weren't recruiting in the same area. I tapped into the competitive nature of the Lads (I hate to admit it but my ego also played a big part) We were really into any sort of competition, which led to Patrols competing against each other. I was young, single and carefree so I was able to devote a heck of a lot of time and energy to the Troop. We met three times a week as well as camping at weekends and PLC meetings. The Troop became a very large family. We recruited in what we called the "Flats" over here it would be called the Projects. It took about six years until we passed the 80 mark, when it got to 90 it became unmanageable so we split the troop in two halves (not two troops.) You need to find that "Something" that you are good at and enjoy doing and then bring the Scouts along with you. It might be camping or hiking or even something that is way out there. Sell doing that -Don't sell being small. Eamonn.

I have not as yet read the syllabus or seen the NYLT course presented. Our Council did hold the course in 2005, but the reports I received said that the attendance was poor and the staff weren't very well trained. I think maybe the National Jamboree can take some of the blame. I think some of the best times I have ever spent in Scouting were spent with the members of the PLC. Maybe I'm guilty of being too critical? But having spent the last ten years watching the SM's in our District at work, it seems to me that they are so busy doing things that they maybe ought not to be doing that they just don't seem to take the time to train and work with the PLC members. I'll spare you my rant about the stuff I see them doing that I don't like. The Troop which OJ is in has some very strange ideas about the Patrol Method. They go through all the elections and pass out patches but other than inviting the SPL to the Leader/committee meetings that is about as far as it goes. They never send anyone to JLTC, so I'm supposing that they will never send anyone to this new course. OJ did staff JLTC and when he was SPL did try and make some changes. Sadly in many ways having seen how it should or could be he became more than a little frustrated. As I say I have not had any dealing with this new course. I seem to remember at one time hearing it wasn't just a Boy Scout course? But was also for Venturers? Is that the case? OJ has done several (Well two!) NYLT courses with the OA. One because he served at the Lodge level and he went back again when he joined the Section Officers. While I'm very well versed in the BSA Vision and Mission. I have this great fear that one day all of our SM's will only be able to organize Merit Badge classes. They will not be able to do the traditional Scouting stuff (No not just knots!!) and the Scouts will hang around just long enough to earn enough badges to add Eagle Scout to their resume and the scarper. Mr Scoutmaster will be trained in leadership, but isn't going to have the skills to pass on to the PLC. The PLC will also be trained in Leadership, but will have not been taught the skills needed to do anything. This doesn't mean that I'm in anyway belittling this new course. I'm sure that it will go a long way to help youth leaders lead. But if we are not careful our Boy Scouts will be trading in their backpacks for briefcases. When that happens I'm not going to have anyone to play with. Eamonn.

Can you effectively run a program this limited amount of scouts? No. If someone or better yet some people don't come up with a plan to save this unit, it is going to die. Things are not going to just take a turn for the better. The Troop is in need of CPR!! What ever it was that wasn't working has to go!! Goals need to be set. Membership is about: Retention: You have to keep the few Scouts that you have. Recruitment: You have to get as many Lads as you can to join the Troop. Attracting this years Webelos Scouts who will be crossing over in the next month or so, is a good place to start. What can Troop 123 do to make them want to join? When we started the Ship (3 months ago) we had five Sea Scouts. I had our Boatswain's Mate ask each Scout to name a friend that he or she was going to prospect. This prospects name was entered into the log and at the start of each meeting each Scout was asked for a report on how things were going. If the Scout reported that So and So wasn't interested we asked for a new name. We are now up to 19 Sea Scouts (One new one this week. -Which is super as we didn't meet this Sunday because of the Steeler Football game!!) We have a really ambitious program, which the Scouts are planning and making work. I think our communications is good but might be better. Even though the Ship didn't meet last Sunday 8 Scouts met and made posters and wrote press releases for the Valentines Dance that they have planned.Every poster has details about how to join the Ship. They have got ads on the cable community channel and the School channel. Our goal was to have 20 Scouts by October 2006. I think 40 is doable? I'm working my tail off trying to make sure that we can keep up with them. Being new we don't have all the equipment or the funding that I would like. But I'm going to get it. I was sending digital photos of everything we do to the local newspaper (Now one of the Scouts does that!!) But I mean everything. I just started our Land-Cruiser Fund. We need $15,000 for a 15 seater van. Some old-timers who were in Sea Scouting 40 years ago just presented us (The Elks) with a check for $1,500. You bet we stuck that in the paper. West Marine just donated $1,000 grant of equipment. We had photos of Sea Scouts wearing PFD's in the paper. We go out of our way to show that we are a team of winners and that we are having fun. When I "Sold" Summer camp, I didn't sell 11 hours each way driving. I sold dolphins swimming along side kayaks. I'll worry about the driving. We have some prospects that are only 13 years old, but they are already receiving the e-mail newsletter. One who will turn 14 before we go to summer camp has already paid his deposit to go.He has to be good for at least 3 more Sea Scouts!! Kids join for fun and adventure. I think that we have that in all of our programs. We need to get the Scouts we do have enthused, tap into their enthusiasm and get the word out.Never miss an opportunity to sell your unit. I have found some super Sea Scout posters that could be made into handbills, but we don't have the cash to get them printed. We are contacting the local pizza shops to see if one would be willing to print the poster on the back. When we talk one into it we will use the handbill to advertise Sea Scouting and our next sale. The Sea Scouts have said that they would deliver the handbills/pizza ads. The pizza store saves on having to mail out his flyer's. I'm working with the schools to see if they will let me in to do career talks!! I know that we are not Exploring but they don't know that!! If you or who ever is in charge of this Troop is going to save it so that it can effectively run a program the time is now and a commitment has to be made never to allow things to get into this shape ever again. Eamonn

Some really nice songs. A few of the patriotic ones never made it across the pond. Or if they did I was too busy to take any notice. I remember being in Paris and Brussels in the spring and spending the summer at the farm in County Meath Ireland.. Eamonn.

At the 2001 National Jamboree in the Indian Lore Merit Badge Area, I met the most wonderful fellow. He was /is a Native American. Sadly he wasn't at the 2005. He talked for about 40 minutes about the Scout Oath and Law and not only held everyones attention, but held us all spell bound. He ended with the following. There once was a very wise and learned medicine man. Who had the reputation of being the wisest and cleverest of all Medicine Men. One day a young Brave came before him. Behind his back he carried a small young bird. He asked the Medicine Man: "What do I have behind my back?" The Medicine Man replied: "A small bird" The young Brave thought he would trick the Medicine Man, he was going to ask if it was dead or alive? If the Medicine Man replied alive, all he had to do was close his fist and the bird would die. So he asked the Medicine Man: "Is the bird dead or alive?" The Medicine Man replied: "The future lies in your hands" I was moved by this and you could turn it into a little play maybe with one Lad being a narrator. He didn't add anything further there wasn't any need, but you could if you wanted. Eamonn.

Hi Phil, Does this mean if I send OJ that you will pay his fare there and keep him? No !! I think when you see how much he eats it would be cheaper to pay to send him back!! Good Luck with filling the positions. If I was a little younger, wasn't married, could get the time off work, was able to take the dogs and the pay was more than I earning now. I would love to spent the summer with you. I'm sure you could teach me a lot of useful stuff that I could use with the Ship. Eamonn.

vmpost When I hear or read about people like the SM you had the misfortune to have to deal with, it makes my blood boil. While it does seem that many people are willing to accept that adding or subtracting to the program is fine and dandy. I really believe that this is the sort of thing that will happen.I have said many times that this game isn't rocket science, we have a program all we adults have to do is deliver it. If we really feel that it's so out of whack that we are unable to deliver it find an organization with a program that suits you. Baden Powell seen that Scouting wasn't going to work as he wanted when the Boys Brigade tried, so he went elsewhere. As for the District or Council trying to put things right. You are correct when you say that they aren't going to step in. I however feel that any SM who has a Lad crying needs to be reported to the SE. Letters need to be sent to the COR, the CC and the CO. My very good friend Bob White informed me that we no longer use the term "Safe Haven" a term I thought was something we should all aim for? I have been informed that it has been replaced with "Controlled Risk". To my way of thinking this SM you describe is out of control and is to big of a risk. If the CO is so "Hands Off " that they fail to see this, they don't deserve to have a Scouting unit. Eamonn.

I was talking to a parent of one of the Sea Scouts the other night on the phone. She said that her Sister-in-law who has just let her daughter join the ship was asking about the details for our last weekend in Maryland. I had e-mailed copies of everything to the parents and the Scouts. But... Anyway, I have known the parent on the phone for a little over ten years. She said that she told her Sister-in-law that it was on her computer, but she hadn't read it, but she wasn't to worry they were going with Eamonn. And she wasn't to worry he was just a big kid and the kids love him!! That being the case I never want to become an adult!! Eamonn.

Back when I was a Cubmaster, we went to a county park. We were there to look at tree frogs. The Nature Director said that three was a lot less tree frogs as there were a lot more ducks and geese, the reason for the over population of the birds was that there wasn't enough snakes. With that he produced a black rat snake. You should have seen the adults move toward the back of the room. The Cub Scouts thought it was cool. Thinking back to my Cubmaster days, there were a couple of parents who needed a good close encounter with a very large boa constrictor. But I suppose that doesn't meet the criteria for being kind? Still at the time it would have helped with cheerful. Eamonn.

SemperParatus While you might very well be right when you say: "The financial freefall over the past two years certainly coincides with the change in SE" But I can't help wondering if the writing was on the wall and maybe Matthew Thornton seen this and got out before things got a little too hot? We have Districts that are still trying to clean up the mess that a FD made and he has been gone for 15 months. While I'm trying to be cheerful, I can't help feeling that we are in for a very tough year. People are really upset about the cost of heating their homes and filling their cars. Prices seem to be going up everywhere. In our area we have seen Lennox glass works close and now Sony is pulling the plug. The small businesses in the area are having a hard time with health care costs as are their employees. Many have given to the Red Cross and just don't have the extra few dollars to donate. Falling membership means that there are fewer kids selling popcorn. So things don't look that good. While I firmly believe that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. I do however think it is time we took a long hard look at what we are paying our SE's. $92,000 is one heck of a lot of popcorn. Eamonn.