Eamonn

I don't know all the facts about what went on with the Lad who was accused of bullying, using foul language and waving some sort of a firearm. I certainly agree that keeping the kids in our care safe and well is our number one priority. We should and must at the first sign of bullying, hazing or acting in any way that will place someone in unnecessary danger remove the offender and place him in the care of his parents. What happens after that is not the call of the Troop Leaders. It is the job/role of the Troop Committee to do what ever they deem appropriate. I'm sure that in most cases they (the committee) would ask the Troop Leaders for their input. But they don't have to and they can if they wish go against the Troop Leaders. Maybe because I see the sky as being pink?? I have to admit to being a little shocked at how many of us were ready to dole out what we seen as justice. As I say I don't know the Scout who is accused. He might be a little toad? He might be a Lad that was being teased and maybe got pushed a little too far. I do know that Scouts and Scouting isn't just for middle class well behaved kids. Sure most the Lads that come our way fall into that category. But one thing I have found in the time that I have been around Scouts and Scouting is that sticking a kid in a Scout uniform doesn't transform him into being an Angel. If all the kids that came our way were well versed in making ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes we would just be a youth group that went camping. We are a lot more than that. Rabbi Vernon Kurtz writes: We cannot live without a considerable measure of justice in our lives, but there must also be a considerable measure of compassion as well. Perhaps this is best told in a wonderful story, based on a Rabbinic Midrash, concerning a great dinner which was being held to celebrate the reign of a new King in Judea. While everyone was eating and drinking the King turned to a Rabbi who was known for his wisdom. Rabbi, he said, I wish to rule wisely, so that my people will live in peace and contentment. How can I make my wish come true? Do you see these drinking glasses? he said. If I put hot drinks in them, they will crack. But if the drinks are too cold, they may shatter as well. However, if I temper the drinks so they are neither too hot nor too cold, the glasses will not break. The King did not understand what the Rabbi meant. The Rabbi then related the following tale: Before the Lord made the earth, he tested his ideas on several trial worlds. In one of those he decided that justice would be king. King Justice announced that everyone would be given exactly the same treatment. Each person, whether rich and powerful or humble and poor, was treated exactly the same way and all cases were decided according to the letter of the law. One time a poor Shepherd was accused of losing four sheep from the flock he attended and his employer demanded payment. In pleading before King Justice the Shepherd said he left his flock because he heard a cry for help. When he answered the cry the sheep were lost. The King refused to listen to the alibi and made the Shepherd pay a whole months wages for the sheep. After a period of time, G-d found that He was not satisfied with the results. So He remade the world and placed a gentle lady named Mercy on the throne. In that kingdom there would be forgiveness for everyone. No one was ever made to pay for mistakes or punished for any wrong that he or she did. No matter if the crime were murder or kidnapping, excuses and alibis would avert the severe decree. Again, G-d wasnt satisfied and realized that neither justice nor mercy alone would be adequate. When the Rabbi finished the story the young King understood the message. He looked at the fragile glasses on the table and said just as I must temper the drinks I put into these glasses so they will not break, so I must temper justice with mercy. Eamonn. (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Over the years I have watched my Son grow up. We live out in the sticks. In the nearly 18 years we have lived here we have only had 3 religious groups at the door and have never had a kid come trick or treating. At Day Care,he became very friendly with another little Lad and for a while they were close. We did the birthday party thing and I have enough video to make a documentary about the two boys. When kindergarten came along, I sent my Son to the Catholic school and his little buddy Luke went to the public school. Over time they moved and drifted apart. I bump into Luke's dad every-now and then, we exchange Christmas cards and I think he looked two years ago at the open house we have every Christmas. Luke was going to Spain, I'm not sure why. There were 18 kindergrtners in OJ's class. Eleven were girls. At that time he wasn't very interested in girls. Of the boys, there was one that he just didn't seem able to get along with. They seemed to do more than their fair share of fighting. Her Who Must Be Obeyed, is not the social type. She is very shy and is not very out going. I was at the time very busy chasing the mighty dollar. But I found the time to coach these little guys in soccer. The School also kept me doing more than I really wanted to do. There was always something going on and as the School was connected to the church, soon I was doing stuff there as well. OJ,joined the pack. His Den was the same kids as he went to school with. I was at the time registered in the BSA, serving on a do nothing committee that met twice a year. This suited me fine, I was really busy. I had two restaurants to run, the School and the Church stuff; I didn't need any more. A note came home telling us that the Cubmaster and the Assistant Cubmaster were leaving and very soon after I was the new Cubmaster. OJ, was like most CM's kids very active in the pack and was still playing soccer. I became dissatisfied with the education he was receiving so I moved him from the Catholic School system into the public school. I also made him take 3rd Grade again. Now all the Lads in his Den not only don't go to the same school as he does, but they are a year ahead of him. I'm having a great time being CM. The pack is doing well. It grows from 18 Cub Scouts to almost 70. We have great Den Leaders and a wonderful committee. I have given up coaching soccer and don't have the school and as much to do for the church. I'm serving on the District Committee as the District Training Chair and I'm asked to become District Commissioner. OJ, is a Webelos Scout. The ACM really wants to try his hand at being CM,so I let him. Poor OJ is dragged to just about every District and Council event. He doesn't complain, not that it would have done him much good if he had!! Looking back I think he was a lot more wise than I gave him credit for being. While he was tagging along with me, he was watching and evaluating the Scoutmasters in the district. He couldn't wait to be done with Cub Scouting. He didn't pick or choose a Troop he choose a Scoutmaster. He was the only one from the pack that went to the Troop that he went too. I don't know if our circumstances are that very different from everyone else on the planet? But the idea that Lad's crossing over from the Pack to the Troop are all good pals and having them all in the NSP, because they are all good pals, doesn't ring true in our case. In the HS year book he is down as the student with the most school spirit. He is never home. He attends just about everything. Cheering on just about every school team. He plays soccer, does track, performs in the school play, sings in the choir. The SM he choose quit Scouting so he changed Troops. He is active in the Ship and very active in the OA. I like to think I know most if not all of his friends. But it's hard. He has different groups of friends. Last year he served on Camp Staff and of course many of the other staffers were active in the OA. It seems that this is the group that he spends most of his free time with. Many of them have joined the Ship. I am 100% for the Patrol method, but I question the idea that a group of Lad's will remain close friends for as long as they are in the Troop. They will grow and interests will change. They will stay with their Patrol if they really feel it is their Patrol, but at the end of the meeting they will go home with the guys who share the same interests as they do.While a lot of the time age will be a factor, it isn't all the time. We have a 14 year old in the Ship who thinks OJ is really cool (I have no idea why??) OJ, seems happy to allow him to tag along and is in his own way taking him under his wing. While I'm not going to tell OJ, but I kinda think this is what we do. Eamonn.

Kahuna "There can't be all that many pre-1930 Scout uniforms around anymore." Could it be that there aren't that many pre-1930 Scouter's around anymore? (I'm sorry I just couldn't help myself!!) Eamonn.

In the delayed light of the news of Vice President Dick Cheneys accidental weekend shooting in Texas of a hunting companion, is it wise that the BSA goes ahead with plans to introduce a Hunting Merit Badge? In a ongoing thread it was asked what guarantee can a COR offer to ensure the safety of the Scouts? I have to wonder if the Vice President, who I'm sure has lots of guys wearing dark glasses and carrying weapons can accidentally shot someone, what chance does a MB Counselor have? I'm pleased that Harry Whittington,is out of the hospital and seems to be doing well. Eamonn.

Seed, a few weeks back we were offered a lot of U.S Navy uniforms -All male. We of course have female Sea Scouts. I gave up trying to work out how to translate female sizes into male sizes or the other way. It seems the Navy has smaller inches than the rest of the world!! The Dress whites weren't too bad, but we also got Blues. In order to do up the front there are 13 buttons!! (No zip) The Scouts both male and female had a great time trying these uniforms on. I'm not a fashion designer and Her That Must Be Obeyed, tells me I have no taste!! But when they were all in uniforms they all both male and female looked great. One Lad asked yesterday why there were 13 buttons -I said it was for the 13 original colonies!! I'm not sure it is true or not? But when he asked why there were only 12 button holes I wasn't quick enough to tell him about the Scout Law. Eamonn.

The NSP can and does work. But .... Back home in the UK Cubs left the pack when they were 11 years old. (Way back when I moved from the Pack to the Troop we had the Leaping Wolf Badge.) When I was Scoutmaster we had what was known as the Link Badge. Normally we would get a couple of little fellows who were close to being about 10 1/2 years old and they would visit the Troop attend a few meetings and cover the requirements of the Badge. The PLC would meet and decide which Patrol they went into. Mixed age patrols worked well for us. In many ways it helped to promote Patrol spirit, even after Scouts moved up to the Venture Unit (Yes unit) they still felt that as well as being a member of the 17th they were also very much a Panther or a Kestrel or whatever Patrol they had been in. Of course having the Scout program end at age 16 made a difference as well. Eamonn.

Hi hereajo Welcome to the forum. There is a lot of things that come to my mind as I read what you posted. 1/ I agree with all those wise people who said that it just isn't possible to make any sort of a judgment call. 2/ My opinion of these written polices is that they are not worth the paper they are written on!! IMHO We have a great set of rules in the Scout Oath and Law. And the COR can override these things at any time. 3/ Looking at what you said: "A scout went out of his way to bully another scout" Where were the leaders? Where was the PL or SPL? As soon as one Lad starts bullying, he should have been asked to go home. 4/ I'm not a member of the Troop Committee. What happens to the Lad isn't up to me or the Troop Leaders. This is by design left up to the Troop Committee. We guys who are leaders have the job of delivering the program. We might not agree with what the Troop Committee does, we might not like it, but at the end of the day it is their call and we should abide by what they decide. I just reread your question about the CO guaranteeing the safety of the Scouts. My dear Pal Bob White used to correct me when I used the term Safe Haven, it seems that Controlled Risk is the thing to say. The CO selects the Leaders who they hope will pass on to the Scouts the values found in the Scout Oath and Law. Leaders who will follow the G2SS and not allow hazing and bullying. I like to think that I do my best to keep the youth in my care safe, but I've had my fair share of Lads who have done some really dumb things. I've had the Lads who like to fight first and ask questions later and sad to say I've met adult leaders who I think are questionable. So the sad thing is that there is risk. Eamonn. (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

GernBlansten Seems like you could have used some help from the eggman and the walrus. Eamonn.

I know I'm going to get shot down!! But who wants to change it?? The Sea Scouts I serve seem really happy with things the way they are. I don't need any more to do. While we are a Sea Scout Ship we also do other activities like snow boarding, caving, hiking, bowling. Next week the Ship is holding a youth dance. Some of the members are working on religious awards. A few helped out at a District Camporee. Summer will be Sea Kayaking. I don't see anything wrong with the programs. I think if there is a problem it is with the delivery. We might want to look at the marketing? Everyone seems to know what an Eagle Scout Rank is, but it would be great if everyone knew how much time and effort goes into the Silver Award and the Quartermaster. Eamonn.

Josh Gilliland SSS Gryphon Redwood City, CA Recently posted on the Sea Scout Discussion List: "There are Mariner Scouts that are alive and well. We are 500 feet away from the MSS Tradewind in Redwood City, CA, a 50 year old Mariner ship. There are other GSA councils that still support Mariner Scouts. SSS 1942 also runs a Mariner Scout program. The adults took all the necessary training and managed to get hold of the books and that sort of thing. Eamonn.

I know what is in place. I also know that as long as what's in place we have to go along with. At present in the Ship we have six Life Scouts, five say that they want to complete their Eagle Scout Rank with there home Troops (Four different Troops) I'm happy to go along with that, which is just as well as I don't have much say in it anyway!! I'm a little unsure about the other Lad.I'm also a little unsure if we as a new Ship are ready to do all that is needed for him to complete his Eagle Scout Rank. At this time we seem to be getting older Scouts moving from the Troop to the Ship. If they were 14 maybe things would be different? With so much to do in both the Sea Scouting side of things and the Venturing side, I'd be happy to leave Boy Scout Awards in the Boy Scout program. There is a Ship in Maryland (I think SSS 1942) That has some sort of Cabin Boy and Cabin Girl program up and running. They have registered as a Boy Scout Troop and A GSUSA Mariner Girl Scout Group.They are recruiting 13 year old boys and girls and working all the programs. The Ship has a very impressive record, but it must take a lot of the adults. Eamonn.

Of course depending on the Council, it could be that LFL is bringing in money from sources that might be unwilling to give to traditional programs? Of course if a COR were to ask to a copy of the Council budget and the membership numbers, doing the math isn't that hard. Eamonn.

Hi John-in-KC, I don't really understand your point. The $1,321,245.00. Is the entire council budget. I don't see why the fact that we will spend X amount of dollars in a specific area makes any never mind? The budget presented was a balanced budget. My point is that the membership numbers are a little of base. Councils are adding the LFL membership numbers into the total. If you take the LFL numbers out of the total things take on a different light. I tried to be as fair as I could when I took my guesstimate at how much LFL costs. Budgets are strange animals. Let's for a minute take an example. The walk-in-cooler at camp isn't working right. If we replace it with a new one it becomes a capitol expense with money taken out of that budget, but if we can't afford to replace it we then repair it and it comes out of the maintenance budget. I think you will find that the Council Executive Board votes on the Council Budget. So while in our case the revenue from camp will be $353,535. When the Board looks at the Council Budget it doesn't know how much of the $31,200 that is budgeted for recognitions will be spent at camp. It doesn't know how much of the $26,200 will be spent on sending guys to camp school or DE's to PDR, it's all under one heading. At the end of the day it's the bottom lines that count. I just think that LFL clouds the big picture. Eamonn.

I kinda think that everyone who has ever been involved in training has gotten as much out of it as the participants. I have to admit that the first time I was asked to serve on a WB staff I said yes for all the wrong reasons. I wanted that third bead. It wasn't until I attended the first development weekend that I came to realize that the course wasn't being ran for my benefit. It really is about the participants and is for them. While the 21st Century course is supposed to not take up as much of the staffers time. You might want to take a long hard look at what you have on your agenda before saying yes. A lot of time goes into preparing for a course and it takes up about five or six weekends add these weekends to all the other weekends and it's easy for the dog to forget what you smell like. Eamonn.

Yes. There are details on one of the discussion boards that can be found on the Sea Scout web site. Eamonn.

Wow!! Backpacker ".... and you complain about Bode" When?Where? I never said a word about him!! Rooster7 I suppose I should be offended by "if you could break out of your flaming liberal the sky is pink world, perhaps you could you grasp the idea that God is ALMIGHTY GOD, and he is not to be ignored or taken lightly. I admit to being a liberal, if that makes the sky pink. I'll look forward to some great sunsets. As for my grasping the idea that there is almighty God? I think I've got it. Only in the books I read he is a loving and merciful God. I find it very sad that you state: "The fact is - the best that man has to offer cannot change the hearts of other men and make the world a better place to live." Maybe because I see the sky as being pink, I still have faith in my fellow man. If I didn't I would think the time we spent working with the youth we serve would be a complete waste of time. Eamonn.

Rooster7 I respect you and your views. Still I can't help thinking that you need to "Lighten up a little" How would you have felt if they had Sung: Let there be peace on earth? Let peace begin with me, let this be the moment now, With every step I take, let this be my solemn vow, To take each moment and live each moment in peace eternally. Let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me! Is this really such a far cry from: Ev'rybody's talking about Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism This-ism, that-ism, is-m, is-m, is-m. All we are saying is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance ? It seems to me that a lot of people who are unable to relate to falling on their knees before God, praying for humble hearts are able to relate to: Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... As I say I respect you and your views. I hope that if you get time that you will say a prayer for me. Circling the wagons and being ultra conservative is not only boring, but it does not capture the heart of Christ. At the end of Mass every Sunday I hear "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord" Loving and serving the Lord when there is peace is a lot easier for me. Eamonn.

I noticed that when the Italian team came out, they arrived to an Italian song. Yoko looked good, but I think "Give Peace a chance" might have been a better selection. I know that I know the music that was played when they carried the flag in - But I'm having a hard time remembering what it is called. It's stuck in my head - I'm driving myself and the dogs nuts singing it - Please help!! Eamonn.

Before you go to far you might want to take a look at the fees the IRS Charge. They all went up on the first of this year. Eamonn.

To often we see people who are willing to win at any cost. Winning is not just the most important thing it is the only thing. Here's a story recounted in the Boy Scout Merit Badge Book for Sports: "In 1940, an underdog Dartmouth football team played powerful Cornell, which needed only one more victory for a perfect season and a number-one ranking in the country. Trailing 3-0 Cornell scored a controversial touchdown that the Dartmouth players insisted was made on an extra "fifth down". However the referee counted the touchdown, and Cornell won 7-3. But after the game, Cornell officials watched the game on film and saw that, indeed their team had been allowed and extra play. They immediately sent a telegram to Dartmouth stating that they could not accept the victory. It went into the record book as a 3-0 victory for Dartmouth." That little story suggests what sportsmanship really requires. It is the desire to play hard and to win - but to win fairly - and if you lose, to accept defeat with good grace. And dont be like the hard-nosed coach who said, "Winning isn't everything, but it sure beats whatever's second." There's some truth in that. Everyone likes to win. Very few people enjoy losing. It's also true in life. You and every other human being find that sometimes you have lose. Perhaps your sports team loses a game on an unlucky break. Or maybe you work hard in school but get low grades. Some people might say you're a loser. But you don't have to stay a loser. The real difference between winners and losers is that a loss makes some people more determined to do better next time. In the long run they are the winners because they learn to profit by their defeats and mistakes. No, winning isn't everything. We can learn from losses, too. (I'm unsure of the source) Eamonn

You might be using the Troop Method.... if none of the leaders know how to tie a square knot. You might be using the Troop Method.... If all the leaders are un-trained. You might be using the Troop Method.... if the tweaks get out of hand. You might be using the Troop Method.... when all all the Scouts bring digital voice recorders to meetings. You might be using the Troop Method.... When a Scouts says "Camp? You mean outdoors?" You might be using the Troop Method.... When PLC stands for Planned Leader Conference. You might be using the Troop Method.... When each and every Scout in the entire Troop is wearing identical merit badges on his sash. You might be using the Troop Method.... When the only leadership skill the SPL has ever learned is how to line the Scouts up outside of the mess tent. You might be using the Troop Method.... If all the adults have dish-pan hands. You might be using the Troop Method.... If everyone in the Troop thinks that a Patrol roster is some kind of bird and a dining fly is some sort of pest. You might be using the Troop Method.... When Scouts buy airline tickets to Amsterdam so they can find out about Dutch Ovens. Eamonn.

No there is no need for her to resign. If the drugs had been illegally obtained things might be different. I feel sure that after this She doesn't have any plans to ever take this medication again and you both will keep be very careful about taking any new meds, even those bought over the counter. I'm glad that she is on the mend. I'd feel a lot safer if Her Who Must Be Obeyed wasn't allowed to own a gun. She keeps telling me that one day I'm gong to wake up dead. Eamonn.

The Ship attended the Sea Scout Training Weekend in Catoctin Maryland. After supper there was a youth dance. I was really surprised that our guys got into the groove. After we went back to the Scout building we were staying at about five miles away from the camp. One Lad had got a portable DVD player for Christmas and like most Scout buildings this one had a very old TV set hidden in the corner. Soon he had somehow managed to wire the DVD player to the TV. They all had a great time just sitting around watching DVD's. It was a very late night. I was tired. The next day on the drive home they all slept.I drove. I don't know how or why but there just seemed to be a feeling of good fellowship watching an old beat up TV. Maybe us all being a little tired and a little worn out had something to do with it? Maybe it being the first time that we had all got to really go somewhere played a part. But it was priceless. Eamonn.

I'm not sure that there is a need for any sort of an Honor Society in Venturing. I have nothing against the OA. I was very proud when I was bestowed with Vigil Honor last year. I really like the new direction that the OA seems to be heading toward. But with such a vast amount of different things for the youth that are members of our Sea Scout Ship to work on or for, I can't help thinking that adding something else would only act as a distraction. I used to think I did a good job of keeping up to date and knew what was going on. But right now trying to cover Sea Scouting awards, Venturing Awards, Ranger Awards, Quest, Kodiak, as well as religious awards. I'm in over my head. And of course all the Lads in the Ship that came from Boy Scout Troops are still in the OA. So we have the Lodge Chief and two vice chiefs, along with the Section Secretary. I know this may sound a little unfair to the female members. But we just couldn't manage anything else. Eamonn.

I know I must be getting old. Tonight was R/T night. There are only four Venturing units in the District. (I'm counting the Ship as one.)One never has done anything,one is really good, but they never send anyone to R/T and one was started with some older boys from a Troop, they never did very much and the same leaders who are Troop Leaders serve the Crew. As we follow a different program and we are the only Ship in the Council I don't see any real reason for my attending R/T. I was asked to attend tonights meeting to present a Scouter with his Wood Badge beads. It was awful!! It started at 7:30 with some Cub Scouter's wearing hard hats doing the opening which was good. Then there was a quick pledge and then came the announcements. Gone was the sheet that I used to have. At 8:30 these were still going on. February should be the final clean up of Cub Scout rechartering and the big time for Boy Scout rechartering - There was no sign of a charter?? I listened to the plans for Scouting for food, Klondike Derby, Spring Camporee, the Cub Scout Olympics which aren't till June. An explanation of how Camperships work and how to fill the campership forms. This led to a very long explanation most of which was wrong about the camp budget. I couldn't get over the fact that Charters weren't even mentioned. I asked the District Commissioner what had happened? I remember when I was District Commissioner, I nagged, moaned, brow beat, threatened, begged, pleaded to get these darn things in on time. We had clinics before R/T meetings and I paid for pizza to be delivered. She said that we don't do charters at R/T meetings anymore it takes too much time!! The other person helping with the Beading is a great pal of mine. He had served as District Chairman up until about six years ago. It was a cold night. Way too cold for a parking lot meeting so we went back to my house. We sat shooting the breeze. I said how when I was chairman I had a goal of us not being the smallest District and how pleased I had been when we went over 1,000 youth members. Sad thing was from talking with the people at tonights meeting, it seems we will be lucky if when the charters come in if we have 400. Talking with the Scouter's there tonight I didn't hear one person who had a plan that if I were a Lad I would think was exciting. It seemed as if they were all just going through the motions. No enthusiasms no spark. Mind you after that much time spent on announcements my spark was fading. Eamonn.