Eagledad

This will be interesting to say the least. I do agree that changes have to be made to keep up with the times. But how far and to what level? I personally think that the Tiger program added in the early 80s is the single biggest contributor to the loss of boys in the cub program today. That indirectly affects the numbers at the troop level. But you dont see the BSA getting away from it. In fact, they must be happy with the performance because they have been enhancing the Tiger program. It would be interesting to learn how National thinks about these things. Barry

>>Why do you need to let people know who you are? The Scouts know who they are isn'that enough? And they will hopefully learn from this that it is important to help others for the sake of helping others and not for the recognition they get from it.

>> It really irks me, when fellow Scouters tell others, that they are "benefiting the entire BSA".... I did not like the donations being handed to us at all; but I have finally given in,

I remember asking the District to change its Scouting for Food policy of delivering food bags to each house door with a message to leave the bag on the porch for a scout to pick up the following Saturday. The scout never got to meet or speak to the persons donating the food during this whole process. I agree with firekat, we can't complain about a struggling program when the community doesn't know we exist. Barry

>>But I do think opprotunities should be provided for them,

>>And that's part of the problem. We have a clear cut transition, bridging, from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts. But NOTHING for Boy Scouts bridge to Venturing. Or from Boy Scouts/Venturing to adult leadership.

>> believe Eagledad has hit it somewhat on the head. You do have a lot of leaders who do not allow the scouts to develope into leaders. I do disagree with the women statement as I've seen men do the same things.

>> I personally think the mistake we made is shiftin' the Boy Scoutin' program down into little kid land, not shiftin' it up. Though that may now be irreversible.

>>My thought is to set a plan for these boys before any advancement can be signed off, say 3 months (under the auspices of "scout spirit"). I am, however, at a loss of how to quantify improvement in this area.

>>Like as not, if yeh start talking about "bullying" the natural kid reaction will be to roll their eyes and assume that this is just "some adult thing." Real bullying to boys means physical stuff.

Ask your DE (District Executive) or District Commissioner for help finding a pack that will loan you their track. Set a date so you dont use the track on the same day as the other pack. I advice a Friday night and make it a family night. Have hot dogs, chips, and sodas for sale for one price so the families can eat dinner there, it adds more fun for everyone and your pack can make a few bucks. If the other pack is using the track on a Saturday morning after, they would love for you to leave it set up. Give out the cars all together so each scout has the same kit and require taht the

Lots of good stuff here. I wanted to support a couple things mentioned. First, the parents have got to know their sons behavior in your troop. My scouts learned quickly that whether the news was good or bad, the parents got a report of their behavior after outings. It wasn't hard for me, I enjoy bragging to parents about their sons after outings. Once in a while the news wasn't so good. While I think it is our job to judge behavior (good or bad), we are not expected to implement change ourselves. The parents are a part of your team and usually they do a really good job without you

>>I think since the oath and law are usually only words to memorize and not necessarily applied in the actual methods of scouting- as is clearly evidenced in the Lisabob affair (bullying breaks about half of the scout laws and the oath), then really what the oath and law serve to do is sell scouting to mom and dad and the CO which is now usually a church.

>>Well for starters Barry, how about the Scouts assault on the US Army during practice manuvers?

>>The thought that Scouting was like the movie is just wrong.

>>I am a critic of BSA because I think BSA has lost its efficacy, its standing as a premier youth organization, and its reputation in communities around the nation. And I don't blame society- even though there is always blame to go around-

I am a firm believer and proponent of the BSAs mission to develop boys into men who make ethical decisions based from the Scout Law and Oath. In my own words I like to say that we develop citizens of character and leaders of integrity. I also believe that the when used correctly, the 3 Aims and 8 Methods are almost a genus system of reaching that mission. I know genus is a bold word, but I have watched the system repeatedly work so well that Im still amazed by it. That being said, we have had discussions and debates of the most important method and if methods should be applied equally. My

yes I agree, but a lot of is being taught to the adults stuff the scouts already know. Since most of what adults should be doing is teaching, guiding,and mentoring, might as well let the scouts practice on the adults. If you can gets your scouts to instruct at IOLS and the boys are willing, go for it. Barry

This is a really good question. The expectation of JASMs are different for every troop, but the primary objective is to give the scout challenges more along the lines of an ASM. When I was the Council JLT Chairman, we developed the JLTC (NYLT) staff position as JASM training because the scouts in that position spend a lot of time learning to teach course classes and skills for guiding the scouts during the course. It really was great training. I don't know if NYLT does as good, but I would start there. But, you got me wondering about the adult training classes and I think that is really a

>>Can a group bully itself? Yep, they do it all the time and it can happen in a boy-led program. It's called peer pressure and this as well can be both positive and negative.

>>We are kinda dweeby. Most of us don't see the need to adorn ourselfs with the manufacturer's logo to the point that we even get "Gold Wing" tattoos.

The best one I've seen is a cooking contest between each troops' adults combined for the meal that is served to the whole camp that evening. Interestingly barbequing whole pigs, roasting turkeys and creating out of this world stews keeps the adults pretty busy the whole day. If all the troops cook in one area, the adults get to know each other pretty good. Barry

>>You have it right ITS ME. When someone is given a directive to accomplish a task from the "higher ups" the only recourse many have is to simply bully. When the SM dictates to the SPL, who dictates to the PLC, who dictates to the PL, who dictates to his members, bullying is going to happen somewhere along the way.

>>Gotta stay with the thread. >Gotta stay with the thread.

yes,those are the same natural leaders who would earn the eagle if they were in scouts. Kathy is talking about the other 97%of the youth. Barry