Eagledad

>>Whether the spending is on a bridge or a trail, or research, its meant to stimulate the economy.

Well Done Barry

Get everyone ready Onehour, that is an overwhelming number. I learned to pull in all the parents as well as scouts and prepare them for the challenge. It is a good challenge but you need to ask for their patience as you guys are going to have to do a lot of changes to make it work, at least for a few months. As you get your feet under you again, then you can get back to normal. But if you, the adults and especially the scouts aren't ready the first meeting, everyone will wonder if it is all worth it. We got 33 new scouts our first year and lost half of them by summer camp because we we l

I was talking to a dad who had four sons in our troop. His first son actually started with a different troop and he quit after the first campout. The dad told me that the troop separated the new scouts from the rest of the troop. They were put on a first class first year program and had to camp in a different area and do a different program. The troop was also sending the new scouts to a different summer camp than the rest of the scouts. His son had had enough of feeling like a Webelos, so he quit after the first campout and joined our troop. I think that was an extreme case, but I do fin

>>While I disagree with some of his gender-based assumptions,

We have use Seagull Outfitters several times for the last ten years. They are located at the end of the Gun Flint trail. We like them because they have good equipment and a nice bunkhouse on their site. http://www.seagulloutfitters.com/ Barry

>>I think having a permanent WebII DL would solve a lot of problems.

>>If the kids are burnt out by the time they get to boy scouts, then the Webelos need to rethink thier programs.

>>I must say though, every year I try to get more from my Pack involved, and every year it is my Tigers who are out there working on their own.

>>Obviously the adults are convincing themselves that they are having the kids lead when in fact they are setting the agenda and eventually the boys figure it out. This is following, not leading.

I agree with Lisa that we should be more focused on doing a good turn daily. Our troop did spend some time on the subject now and then. I have several SM Minutes to that subject, but honestly, we were pretty good at helping the community. I'm sure we could have done better, but the got a lot of practice. I taught our PLC that the scout goals are the Eight Methods and the adult goals are the Three Aims. I asked the PLC to make sure that all the scouts have opportunities to practiced citizenship, character and fitness on every campout. That usually included summer camp and high adventure as

>>Train: we train Provide opportunities: We provide opportunities Give them room to lead: OK we do that Still, the patrol method is just not biting into the road.

We've had patrols of 6 to 12 scouts depending on their stage of recruiting and loosing scouts for many years. We've had just two or three scouts Patrols on a campout many times and they do fine with food. I don't remember the causes, but we've had a patrol of one a couple times and those scout not only did fine, they did great. Your parents just dont understand how important team building is for a patrol. Team building takes time (months) to build a pride of brotherhood and trust. Even if it is just two scouts, they are holding the patrol pride together everytime the troop is assembled. T

>> Having a Star Ranked PL of the NSP take the boys to Philmont is kinda dumb.>the Star-ranked PL of the NSP could turn the PL reins over to another scout and he would continue on as TG for the NSP, training the new PL and be eligible for the Philmont contingent> Maybe when the Star-ranked TG returns from Philmont he'll be able to return to the patrol and work at getting all his NSP buddies up to first class so that in a year or two they too can go.

>>Notice how the word patrol can be completely omitted from the discussion? Notice how the leadership responsibilities of a big trip are shifted off the boys and onto the adults? >"Our troop creates a temporary crew or patrol for each special activity like going to Philmont, Canada or snow skiing." This happens when patrols don't organize their own independent activities. This is how troop-method units operate. The patrols are broken up for convenience sake.

>>As long as there are standards and/or requirements, someone must be charged with maintaining them. In Scouting, it's the Scoutmaster.

Stosh, you lost me. Other than that you guys restrict patrol size, the rest of you post doesnt seem to address the subject. Im glad your SPL said no to paintball, but isnt that what he is supposed to do? BrentAllen, I was the Scoutmaster of a troop of 90 scouts. About 40 percent of the troop was 14 and older and we average about three high adventure trips a years. We also take the Troop of 40 to 60 scouts on many campouts that require several smaller groups to function. But that is easy for a troop because its made of patrols. Size just never came up as an issue for outdoor activities.

>>A gate keeper implies failure and I suppose it depends on what you mean by failure

>> Our patrols are limited to 8 boys max. There are very few instances where a limit is placed lower than that. Troop-method scouting will always have problems with size limits, patrol-method won't.

Great story, thanks. I found the struggle for me was finding an approach that worked for each individual scout. Each of us is inspired differently, which is why I think scoutmasters have to be creative to do a good job. And its kind of funny, I heard more than once a good Scoutmasters talk about himself as the bad cop in a good-cop bad-cop scenario. I think it is a very humble statement. Good job MattR I love this scouting stuff. Barry

First off, that sounds like a really cool Camporee. I wish we lived closer. I can't remember what they call it, but the rule is to have a least three people. At least two adults or two scouts. I think this will count as an activity and not an outing. A solution is have two adults walk around together to check on the events. Hang around for a couple minutes then walk to the next. That way the scouts are doing the boy run thing without adult supervision and the adults are doing their check, but not staying long enough to take away the boy run expereince. Everyone gets what they want a

>>Sort of a chicken/egg situation, depending on whose perspective you start from.

>>With the wisdom of hindsight: I would have separated into two hiking groups. My first choice would be one with just youths hiking and one with just adult hiking. Then pick points on the trail for rendezvous (at the ravine, a trail intersection, campsite). If that ratio didn't work (because the parents cried foul) pick one or two of the faster and quieter adults to go with the youths.

>>A Scoutmaster should have known long before that point that the Scout had some areas in which to improve.

>>Scout Spirit requirements, Scoutmaster Conferences, and Boards of Review are designed to keep a Boy Scout Troop adult-run. They are a flat rejection of Baden-Powell.