Eagledad

Hi Eagle Wow! You have been hammered with ideas, theories and wisdom, but I'm not sure you got your answers. Part of your problem is defining boy run. Write down in one short sentence what you want boy run to be. Does your SM agree with your boy run definition? Write down in one short sentence what you want the troop to look like when it has reached your boy run goal. Show it to your SM, does he agree? Now, there are a lot of suggestions here, some practical, some not. I think you have been overwhelmed and while some of the suggestion sound good, they can't all work together. So, Pick two simple ideas that can be applied at your next meeting, then watch and learn. just two, start simple. Boy run is hard. It's a lot harder to do than adult run. Boy run is a slow process, so you have to know if it is working, or not. Measure you progress by your vision (one short sentence above) and see if your are getting there. One thing I agree with is the scouts need goals. Goals inspire us to move forward. I told my PLC that goals have to be fun. If something isn't fun, change it. Scouts will work for fun goals, so if the meetings or camp outs aren't fun, well you know the rest. My I suggest just one book right now, the SPL Handbook. It is an easy simple guide of how the scouts should run the troop. It is a fast read and explains how to run meetings and plan camp outs. It can be your troops guide until you get your feet under you. this is the book I suggested that new SMs should use instead of the SM Handbook because I knew they would read it. I'm excited to watch your post and see how your troop grows. Building a true program is the hardest thing I've ever been involved in, and by far one of the most rewarding. You are making a difference and that changes your life forever. You are certainly something special. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>If you're in Scouts because you think Eagle will look good on a college application, quit. Stay home and spend the time studying. Good grades look even better.

Hi All Our view of the program is that outdoors, leadership and advancement are all just methods toward the goal of preparing young people to make ethical and moral choices. I taught both the scouts and the adults (at all levels of training from Council to unit JLT) that in my opinion, adults are responsible for the Aims of Scouting, and the Scouts are responsible for the Eight Methods. While I was Scoutmaster, I honestly didnt really care how the scouts used the methods provided they did use the methods to run the program for the intent of developing citizenship, character and fitness. In fact, I learned from another wise SM somewhere to ask the PLC plan the activities with an element of all three those traits. For example every campout had a service project to satisfy the citizenship Aim. But, as far as leadership or advancement, that was the scouts personal responsibility. We adults acted as passive guides and didnt take on a proactive approach to advancement except to insure that the program didnt have any barriers to hold a scout back. We did rely on leadership as a major part of character development because the leadership experience is the best way for a scout to see his limits of serving others. But, it was still up to the scout for initiating his leadership experience. Our approach to the Aims and Methods is probably the reason why 80 % of the scouts who earn Eagle are 16 or older. But we do have a pretty high average of eagles, so I think the approach is balanced. So I think the answer to the original question for us would be that we would encourage (even cheer) the scout to press hard for his goals and dreams, but we arent going to get upset if he gives up along the way. His parents might, but not the troop adult leadership. Barry

Im surprised that the responses are mostly either/or, but no compromises. I had the same serious chat with my wife, I am sure most of us with the passion have. But I worked it out with my wife. For her to allow me to be the SM, I got off the District Committee, I declined participating or leading in anymore adult training. I promised at least one week of vacation with the family every summer. I did not stay overnight with the scouts in lock-ins or overnight JLTs. I basically cut out any activities that didnt require the SM. I became a lean mean Scoutmaster machine and peace was had in our home. Even with cutting all that fat, I still wore my uniform on average four days a week, and averaged 50 nights of camping a year. However, I did get a lot of calls and made a lot of promises to the District and Council to volunteer again when I retired from the SM job. That was a mistake because I was burned out four years later. But if one is willing, you can have your cake and eat it too. There was one either/or situation my wife would not compromise and that was the way toilet paper should unroll. Inny or outty? Barry

>>Hands off is the way most unit leaders like it and the flip side of that is their relationship with their CO is minimal at best.

>>In answer to your question you either live in a council that is in perfect working order, which I highly doubt, or you base your statement on your own unit or very limited exposure to other units. The truth is most units want a cordial relationship with their CO just as long as the CO allows them total control in running the program and "interfers" as little as possible.

>>Bottom line you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want an involved and active CO you also run the risk of them telling you how they want you to do things, and if they observe something or hear something they don't like they will tell you what changes they want the unit to make. Active CO's play an active part in the running of their units, period. Unfortunately the majority of them are not and do not want to get involved with your unit< Let me play the role of a member of the district committee who works with units and COs. I cant think of one unit that thinks in the way you describe. Most units need a good relationship with COs so they can have easier access to property and assistance. In fact, I would say the majority of complaints are from units requesting help to get the CO more attentive to the unit. Truth is that most scout units function fairly smoothly compared to other parts of the CO programs. The COs put their valuable volunteer efforts toward the fires, so they typically leave the units alone. Our troop finally worked out a solution where we were invited to the church council meeting once a month and the COR visited a Troop meeting once a month. The COR was once a scout and really supports the program, but since he wasn't involved in the troop, he said attending a meeting was fairly boring and we didnt seem him much after six months. We found the same problem with the church council meetings. Eventually the agenda was adjusted so that we could give a report first then leave because the rest of the church council meeting was, well boring. I will say the way we got our CO to give us any kind of attention was to threaten to look for a new CO. As I said, our troop was one of the few programs in the church that didnt require any volunteer effort on their part to maintain, so they wanted us to stay just to look good on their reports. Barry

>>How about the Lad who might agree with the Supreme Court ruling that funeral picketing is free speech?

>>I find getting a chartered orgainization more involved with the unit one of those "easier said than done" issues.

>>I tried as District Chair to cut back on the number of District events. My thinking was that these events got in the way of Troops following their own themes and programs. I didn't win that one!

I've never seen one. My high school buddy's dad colected corvairs which include a couple of converibles, but I've never seen a station wagon. Ill bet that is worth a lot now. Barry

Fscout is right, units individually should only attend distict activities that are good for the unit program. A unit should not be expected or plan to attend a just to support the district. Likewise a troop shouldn't attend a local summer camp just to support that camp. Competition forced a our Council to fix its camp program a few years ago. That being said, the district committee is being led poorly. A district annual calender should come out and in the Spring in time for packs to plan their next year. Barry

>>Eliminating local control is not da sign of a real conservative, it's a sign of a fellow who wants to be king. And legislating away peoples right to bargain just crosses da Oath and Law line.

>>In the US, the "elite" is a label used by the conservative right wing media, and often, conservative right-wing politicians, for any person, any organization, or any broad grouping of people (ie "liberals", "gays", "Washington Democrats", "unions") that they disagree with as a way to convince their followers of the rightness of their position without having to actually work to develop and express a cogent set of facts to back up their assertions.

>>. We will not stand by and watch one parents ruin something for everybody else out of fear of upsetting that one parent!

>>And it was exceptionally poor management (with insanely high salaries) that sunk GM.

>>Wow, I am SO glad to hear about the boy who won the PWD -- put a smile on my face too (and a tear in my eye)

The right time for me was when I stopped answering the phone for fear of the caller at other end wanting to discuss scouting business. Barry

Our EBOR often asked current event questions (one per Eagle) and I must say many of the answers are interesting. But I never saw the adults respond in anyway other than just to move on to the next question. Barry

This is a great idea. We looked into it several years ago but never did anything about it. I understand that a couple of councils did something like this with the JLTC program in the 90s. and I know that the Wood Badge experimented with at Philmont. I would certainly enjoy you keeping us up to date and even giving us a little of how the daily agenda and lesson plans work. I think it will be hit if you pull it off. Barry

Sadly the solutions aren't about encouraging and practice of proper behavior, but instead watering down the fun. If boys can't learn to control themselves during competitions in the pack, how do they learn for life? I know its old school, but for me the BSA is in the business of developing character. We must demand proper behavior at all times. If an adult (and unit leader) don't enjoy an activity of which most boys are excited for, that is a good time to delegate the responsibility. A pinewood derby can run without an incident like the one in the other discussion (the vast majority are). I know this because I've seen it done many many many times. Barry

>>...I want to see each and every boy and family learn through its experiences in our pack that 'Life is about serving others, and that serving other is FUN!' I know I need to add more but.

>>Most leaders have some weak points ---- I know I do.

It kind of sounds like you are doing OK to me. I dont worry about asking for a demonstration of skills, I think their character can handle that if I need to see it. But a SMC for me isnt about series of test, its about what the scout is getting from the skills, or the troop, or patrols or what ever. I want my scouts to leave a meeting feeling good about themselves. I might as a skill question something like have you used the square knot lately in your activities?. But I also try to get to know the scout better too. I know that is recommended, but I am a people person and that is just me. I ask adults the same questions when I want to get to know them. I like to learn about their other life away from the troop. But most important for me is that I talk man to man with them. I try very hard to keep the talk as more of two friends having a discussion of ideas. The CC once told me that they when they asked a scout during his second class BOR what he learned from the SM Conference, the Scout said he hadnt had a SM conference yet. He told them the only time we had talked that day was when I bought him an ice cream cone. I do the Eagle Conference a little different. By this time I know the scout really well and would not be having the conference if I didnt think he was ready. So this is a time where I try to honor him and just listen to him tell me what he feels about the Eagle, what it means to him, what it will do for him. About the only question I ask of them is how would a stranger know that he is an Eagle Scout in his day to day life? Even then I tell them I dont expect or want and answer, the answer is for him, not me. Then I spend a few minutes briefing them a little on the EBOR. Mostly so they dont get too nervous. And really I do that more for the scout to help his parents not get too nervous. Generally the scouts are fine until the parents start getting asking questions and pushing them to study. By the way, I invite the parents to listen in on the Eagle Conference so they can listen to different part of their son they may not have heard before. Hopefully a more philosophical son with thoughts of the world they have not seen from him before. Most parents dont, but they appreciate the invitation. Scoutmaster conferences take a little practice, but I always advice the SM bring a part of himself into the conference that will help the scout learn more about his scoutmaster. I think Baden Powell would say it should be converstation between two brothers. Good Question. Barry

>>Moms who've camped with us have managed to do this, and I think it's helped boys to actually work on that "mystique