Eagledad

I've written about this several times over 12 or so years and yes you have hit the nail on the head, adult burnout in Cub Scouts hurts the Boy Scout numbers. Five years is asking too much of adult volunteers. Even four years is a lot. The first year is Tigers and that program alone requires four times more adult time per week than any other age group. The BSA has no business trying to include toddler age boys into a program designed for more mature boys. It verges on being a babysitter program except the parents still have to attend. When you poll Den leaders and Cubs as I have done, you find that at least 50 of Den leaders who started at the Tiger or Wolf year are ready for a break by the end of their Bear year. These are adults who are not that excited about their responsibility in the program anymore and the result is a boring program, a boring Webelos program. Boys only look forward to the next year of scouts if their previous year gives them the enthusiasm to make the move. If the Webelos are boring, the boys think the Troop will be boring as well and the crossover numbers show it. I haven't seen the numbers in the last few years, but less than 50% of Webelos was crossing over to Troops. I can't see a reason why the number would change. And its not the activities that are boring or sports taking the boys away like a lot of folks assume, its just that the adults are burned out. Not all of them of course, most of us here didnt loose that enthusiasm, but studies show that the average person is willing to give a volunteer program about 18 months before they need a break. The Cub program ask far more than that. How many of us have nearly got on our knees to beg a leader to stay just one more year. When National made some major changes to Tigers in 2000 that required more of the adults time on a weekly basis instead of biweekly, a few of us predicted that the crossover numbers would fall as a result four years later and they did. What surprised me was that the Tigers to wolves numbers fell as well. The Wolf and Bear numbers were stable percentage wise, but I understand the first year Webelos started falling more than normal. Cub Scouts has become too heavy and too complicated for the average adult and the intended vision. Its not a boy problem, its all about the adults because if the adults are excited, so are the scouts. You only need to talk and compare good dens with bad ones and you see a difference of attitude in the boys as far as their future of scouting.. Im not sure of the solution, I have proposed a few that I think would work like killing the Tiger program for a start. But big changes have far reaching effects that can be both positive and negative. I cant imagine National is blind to the numbers, so I just dont think they want to take such risk. Barry

They will provide cooked food, you don't need chuck boxes. Barry

>>The thing that really struck me about this book is that signaling (semaphores), first aid, map reading, and tracking were learned throughout the year. Tracking was learned through a number of games, especially Kim's Game. The book refers constantly to another book called Scouting Games written by B-P. Today it seems that first aid is mostly taught at summer camp and/or at merit badge clinics, depending on the troop. Map and compass are still important, but I would think seldom receive year-round attention. Signaling and tracking are, of course, no longer required at all.

Our CO is still Presbyterian, they just don't belong to the USA order anymore. I want to say they joined the Presbyterian (International?). I imagine the familes that left went to a Presbyterian Church that hasn't left the USA order. Barry

Their council patch probably doesn't help things much. Barry

>>Well, some. There has been a well known flight to other Presbyterian organizations for those who haven't changed their mind.

What evmori said. Barry

I had several atheist parents who really liked the scouting program for their son and supported us where they could. Your son will have a great time. Barry(This message has been edited by Eagledad)

>>We have two very different threads going here.

>>The entire patrol.....because I am going to be some of them stood around and watched him do it.

You don't get to see patients, but the doctors, nurses and the equipment do have an impact. However, I also agree that emergency responders are also a good sourse. The problem with things like fire is that it is naturally attractive to the male gender, so saying it's dangerous doesn't have much impact. Punishment is Ok in teaching respect of the scout law, but it doesn't have much impact on the adults fears of fire misshapes. At least the responsible adults anyway. So learning it from someone who can articulate the impact of careless handling of fire and fuels sometimes gives the scout respect of the consequences. I was told a few years ago that two scouts have died in the history Boundary Water treks and of one them was playing with Coleman fuel. The problem is that it could take a couple of days to get to an emergency room from a the wilderness. Barry

>>I think making him an instructor, requiring him to earn Fire Safety MB, and then teach the skills of Fire Safety to each patrol in turn over the next year might get the point across...

>>I'm just saying, at 10 1/2 or 11 ( whichever the boys is) I do not put a ton of weight on his beliefs , nor will I hold him to those beliefs as they may change 100 times before he is 18.

>>Yep. The old southern socially conservative, pro-military democrats who defected from the Democratic party during the LBJ Great Society/civil rights years, and all the folks who adhere to that intellectual tradition. Since yeh have been with us for a couple generations now, you've gotten to thinking that you're "true" Republicans and conservatives. It's a bit funny, actually.

>>You're right, I don't want to give those up. Like all old-school conservatives, I believe there's a role for government in creating and enforcing laws so that unscrupulous people don't cut corners or try to shift costs of doin' business onto others. Law enforcement is the proper role of government in society. I don't believe it should be left to individual families to try to sue oil producers for damage incurred, any more than it should be left to private citizens to investigate and prosecute grand theft auto. We believe in a system of common laws, eh?

>>What yeh don't seem to understand is that oil is a commodity, eh? It's traded on a worldwide market. It doesn't pay for the oil companies to drill more here, because it's much harder (i.e. more costly) to extract oil here than in many other areas of the world.

>>Of course I also have to wonder at a claim that Christianity depends on a belief in Satan. Are you sure you want to make that claim?

>>It would be the most significant thing we've done in 20 years to safeguard national security

The idea has been proposed for a few years because cars are burning less gas. But it hasnt been pushed hard until recently by a couple of states. Nationally it wont go far because it is such an obvious tax grab and raising taxes isnt really politically correct right now. But the idea is going to stay out there for awhile. I think what you will see legislated before mileage taxes is a requirement for installing tracking devices in all cars. Most car manufacturing companies are already installing them in most of their cars, but there will be a push to do them all. Once that happens, then a lot of things will happen. Barry

I always looked for two possible DLs before I approached asking the first one to take a position. Its always easier for someone to consider a volunteer position if they know somebody else is covering their back. If you feel comfortable about asking one to lead and the other assist, by all means approach them that way. If however neither seems to feel comfortable as a leader, then ask them to be co-leaders. The true leader will take on more of the responsibility a few weeks into the job. Also, your odds are always better asking in person, not on the phone. Barry

>>My question is can the SM or anybody else sign off on the Unit Leader signature line on project completion and spare me from doing that.

We develop 80 to 90 percent of our behavior by the age 14 from watching those who influence us. So we are all role models to some degree. The more visibility we have to those watching us, the more influence we are as role models. So heck yah presidents, Scoutmasters, teachers, sports stars and Rock stars are role models. It was my scouts who explained to me what is meant by getting or giving a Lewinsky. Barry

I don't think any boy who is given the choice of waiting for the water to lower or take a HELICOPTER ride out would pass the chance to ride in the helicopter. I still get excited flying our Helicopter simulator. But then we don't have a hiking simulator to compare. I love that flying stuff too. Barry

>>I am wondering if just attending church is being reverent toward God if you don't believe there is a God? Can you be reverent if you don't believe?

I look at it this way, would the left had been quiet if the roles were reversed, no way. Would we have had this discussion if Obama, or any other president, had simply published their birth certificated at the beginning, nope. Was there a strategy for Obama, or any other president, to not show the proof citizenship or any kind of records that are important to judge weather a person is worthy of president of the United States, yes I think so. I have never been or ever will be a Trump fan, but he forced Obama to move when nobody else could and ended it. Barry