Eagledad

>>How do you choose which pack to join? I'd bet a good number of packs fold as one or the other packs gets favored. Only to be recreated later as the other pack grows too big.

>>Awesome mom, awesome kid, and awesome partner. I'm betting this would be a life long Scout based on the boy and the parent. I'm sure our pack would welcome them in a heart beat.

>>But you never see multiple packs actively recruiting the same school.

>>There are two troops that have extremely geared up their recruiting to the point that I swear they teach their boys a script to say. I've heard it from multiple scouts at different ocasions

>> I know there is no strict answer and that things can vary greatly. And BSA is pretty vague too on this stuff..

>>Are you certain you aren't confusing correlation with causation?

>>I don't think it will be that bad. It is inevitable. When it happens, it will end with a whimper and not a bang. LDS will get some special exception, the others will shrug, there will be two news stories of gay guys joining troops, and then not a another sound about it ever again.

>>Again? Really? Please stop spreading nonsense when you have no first hand knowledge. GSUSA DOES have men in their program - ESPECIALLY fathers.

>>This leads the troop to focus on older scouts, and their advancement, to the detriment of the younger scouts.

>>Most units I know do their's in late August or so, after the Council Program Kickoffs when the council calenders for the coming year are released.

My experience is troops that rotate SMs tend to have a consistent program that doesnt change much over the years because the ASMs basically all have the same vision. They lean just a bit more on the advancement side and less boy run. But, I wouldnt call them Eagle Mills, just less creative. Barry

I certainly would not be a chairman of anything while I was a SM. But there eventually comes a point when some of us have enough time and scars of wisdom to help hundreds, if not thousands, of scouts by taking a position at the district or council. Some adults who actually know what they are doing can make a big difference. Barry

We are also very much like Fred, but we do it every six months. Its kind of a complicated process but the scouts have it down so well that it rarely takes two hours. Usually the PLC follows the planning with an all-nighter video game lockin. The SM usually kicks in pizza and coke before going home to a nice comfortable bed. Strangely, Planning Night is considered a perk for being on the PLC. For me, the key part to making planning successful is meeting with the SPL the night before. That's a good place for the SM and SPL to discuss where the troop needs to improve or change. That is where one of my SPLs told me he was cutting out some fat by getting rid of a couple PLC positions. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>Maintaining the merit badge councilor list....That sounds like a job I could probably do on the district level....Might just give the advancement chair a call.

>>In a decent council or district it would make sense....

Interesting, beav, you go and train the counselor to be a mentor. Ok, we don't really do that except with counselors who work with a lot of our scouts. As I said, the boys find many counselors that are out of the city and state. Personally I think just handing the counselor the book and letting him review it works pretty well. We will have to agree to disagree. As for the question of improving the blue card system, you should get the white sheets our council uses. It cuts out the One of the adults in the process. Barry

>>MBC->Scout's discretion communication->Committee Member->Registrar-> etc.>I think by and large folks teach others the way they have been taught. So if we teach adults checklists, they'll teach the kids checklists. Our example speaks more loudly than our words. I don't think yeh can get adults to help kids reach the goal of higher proficiency unless we as adults use behaviors and practices associated with higher proficiency.

Our Key Three had to deal with a real bad Troop scandal when the scouts found out that the SM (female) and ASM (male) were sneaking around behind their spouses, or scout's parents, for several months. It was a huge mess for the troop. Barry

It all depends on the program. We averaged an eagle every 2.5 months. The average age was 16.5. And we have several who did their EBOR a week before their 18th birthday, my son include. They weren't procrastinating, they were just so busy with other scouting stuff that Eagle was a lower priority. Adults set the vision of the program, if they believe scouts loose interest after age 14, their program likely is not interesting for scouts over 14. The largest troop in our district averages between 150 to 180 scouts any given year. A successful troop by most measures, but 90 percent of their scouts are 15 and younger. They have an Eagle program that guarantees Eagle by age 14 if the scout follows their program. You want to guess what the SM would say if you ask him why so few older scouts hang around? Our troop typically gets 1 or 2 of their new Eagles ever year. Oaktree is an active member on this forum and the SM of a troop with a high ratio of older scouts. Maybe he will chime in to the secret of keeping older scouts. But one thing I know about Oak, his vision for his troop includes older scouts. Ya gotta love scouting stuff. Barry

>> I'm suggesting that all scouts can engage in higher-order thinking, or reach a level of proficiency. If we let 'em. I don't buy that 95% of 'em can't.

>>I think that's utter nonsense. I think you're gettin' those results because of the system you have set up.What I'm gently suggestin' is that yep, yeh occasionally need to provide a bit more structure to a young scout or a new MBC when he's just gettin' started.>95% of youth and adults are capable of doin' this stuff on their own, without all that extra foorah. They can manage their own learning without a worksheet, and they can engage in normal communications, which these days usually involve email instead of 3-part cardstock forms.

Wow great post Guy. I agree with every point. Everyone has great points, but Guy puts the major points all in one basket. My first point was going to be the same as Guys, the older scouts. Through my experiences and working with other units, older scouts are major struggle because like most adults, they don't like change. They just dont like to be retrained. Them will bend a little, but you won't break them. Use them where you can, but don't let them get in the way of your goal. The changes will have to come from the younger scouts. Also Guys comment on a Patrol oriented summer camp really is important. Its more of a philisophical point, but it goes along with Kudu's 300 ft. rule. You need to isolate the patrols as much as you can so they have room to function as a team. The Patrol Identity Discussion going on in another thread is a really good read that supports Guy's point here. I might suggest you get the SPL Handbooks and PL Handbooks for both the adults and youth leaders. Use them together to build the basic structure of your new boy run program. I encourage all scout leaders at district and council adult training to use these handbooks instead of the SM Handbook because they are easy to read and get right to the point of the program structure. Its a lot easy to shape and control the adults when you have them refer to the same book the scouts are using. Im very impressed Guy, you have a natural feel for this scouting stuff. I hope you eventually get to work with adults in other units one day to help them in their struggles. Barry

>>I suspect they don't want to cook or just hang out together at meal time. I think the merger would help their camping attendance.

>>So I would like to discuss with the boys about merging the last two patrols together.....

>>I share TwoCubDad's lack of enthusiasm for da worksheets. And I reckon my own personal feelings on a checkbox, one-and-done approach to any advancement are well known in this particular pond I prefer approaches where da focus stays on the mentoring and the interestin' subject.