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Last year there was a rumor out of the national meeting about a new program for older scouts to replace venturing. I think national is still baking that one, I cornered a local who is on one of the national committees and he was like "I know of the rumor you're talking about, I can't discuss that." and he wouldn't say a word. So I would say there is legs to the rumor but no one has details/will provide. Venturing is really in the decline where I am at. What I see is that some troops sporadically have a handful of engaged older scouts and so they form a crew for a couple years and then when
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Wow, lot of stuff to digest here. The cub program is fine. It has been fine. The updates that are kicking in June 1st (or abouts) will be an improvement. The key to the cub program is what many of you already touched on; disengaged parents will provide a poor program no matter what the program is. I do feel that there will be some more advanced WEBELOS that will get held back due to the new program; however, the overall 4th and 5th grade cubbing experience is going to be better for the majority of scouts. The key to retaining AOLs/capturing them into the troop level program is going to be
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I resemble that statement. The thing is those activities that scare the parents of 10.5 year-old crossovers, they want to do them by the time they turn 12-13 years old. So in the last 2 years we have had more scouts join by word-of-mouth, by talking to their friends doing fun stuff like this, than we have had by crossing over kids on their way out of elementary school.
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From Newsweek "An online petition is calling for the Boy Scouts of America to reverse its planned name change...The name change, which is expected to go into effect on February 8, 2025—coinciding with the organization's 115th anniversary—sparked fierce backlash on social media." Sources: https://www.newsweek.com/boy-scouts-america-name-change-backlash-petition-1899301 https://www.change.org/p/save-boy-scouts
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The undoing for me last year was the constant push on converting Candidate to Ordeal. The Lodge was in my view bordering on harassment for kids to attend Ordeal with emails every week. By the time you got to November, many parents would be unsubscribing from our email list, and when they changed LM to take that option out of mass emails, I'm sure many just started blocking our email. When Nat'l officially changed to allow 18 months to complete Ordeal, it was the last straw for me- to obvious it was about numbers which equal $$$ than it was about nor or quality in the achievement. for our Lodge
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https://www.rovering4life.org/ Well, if anything is worth doing, it's worth over-doing 😜 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KH_JzLLIhA&t=2s https://fb.watch/rZX80EgGZj/ Please don't show that last link to your Scouts...
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And I endorse this. Building anticipation in Cubs that at the next program level they will be on their own mentored by other kids is the correct approach. We've lost that mentality far too much IMO.
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That right there is what I have noticed. I suppose it was to make it easy for DLs as most did not want to be DLs. We are in a drop off society and when I tell a parent that they will have to be the DL if their kid is going to join, they either leave or do it begrudgingly. By the time they get to Webelos and AOL, even the somewhat motivated parent starts phoning it in. What could be some really cool adventures turn into classroom stuff. My son's den cooked spaghetti in the church kitchen for Cast Iron Chef. I don't think they did much focus on budget and certainly didn't go shopping. My
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Anecdote: My Cub Scout Pack thrived because we scheduled fall/spring camping, a winter cabin weekend, and outdoor activities monthly. Many of the Packs in my area no longer camp outdoors, so we took those Cubs who left and let them join our Pack. I appreciated the chance to help my scouts learn and practice outdoor skills. ie. In Cub Scouts I can teach kids to cook on outdoor stoves and grills while standing next to them. In a troop, they learn practice as a patrol, led by other scouts. Adults are at a distance. When I recruited scouts I explained it is because scouts learn by doing. Not by me
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I never was a fan of units that pencil-whipped kids who had earned AoL through Boy Scout rank requirements. That doesn't mean they should have gone to an extreme and unnecessarily made kids wait to get rank requirements signed off, but rather they could actually, you know, test the kids on campouts to see where their skillset is at. I lamented (about a decade ago now I believe) when they pushed more outdoor cooking requirements down to the Cub program, that it would build more anticipation of kids/parents that would react with "I've already done that" when they hit troops. BSA seemed to knee-j
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I've noticed that the quality of the OA has gone down. It's become more of the BSA party society. My youth experience was only at the chapter level, the chapter covering all of the UK, Iceland, and Norway. We held our own Ordeal and Brotherhood ceremonies. I remember the entire chapter essentially did the Ordeal with the candidates. Some conducted OA business, but the other remaining few were out there working. In the evening, everyone was present for the ceremonies. I think it officially has changed form the honor society to the service society, but every rank requires some sort of ser
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For anyone who uses Troopmaster: when viewing a scout's advancement, and you click on "Palms", the participation requirement shows up with a notation about # and the year 2024, and it lists 90 days participation. Does this mean the requirement to wait 90 days after earning Eagle before being awarded Palms is back in place? Or is this just Troopmaster weirdness? This is my son's record. He has 30 completed MBs (one not entered yet, so 29 "officially"), so with instapalms he would have had at least a bronze.
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Venturing has been in decline, our entire District is down to 1 crew. There w as a rumor that a new program Rovers? that could replace venturing. I think Rovers would be pushing the upper age limit of Venturing. Edit... Rovers look like option post Venturing.. https://tidewaterbsa.com/rovers/
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Maybe that is why the Venturing Director made that announcement. To quote Han Solo:
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Another random thought... When we offer the option of fully coed Troops, will there be an ongoing need for Venturing?
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The OA has lost a lot of meaning in my neck of the woods. And now that everybody who wants in gets in. None of my Scouts are interested. In the past 6 years, only 1 person wanted in, and he was pushed by his dad who was an Arrowman in his youth. He did the Ordeal, and went to a meeting, and it was so bad he never went again. As for 2 of my sons, despite telling the OA election team they were not interested in joining the OA and remove their names from the ballot, their names remained and they did get elected. But never did their Ordeal. The reason they told me was that the OA is no longer
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There is no different training for Cub Scout leaders. Lions/Tigers/Wolves/Bears den leader is the same as Webelos/AOL. And for a Cub Scout to earn AOL, they only have to participate in one outdoor activity. They don't even have to camp anymore. That's not enough practice to bridge up to a troop who camps monthly. So the scouts are doing a lot of the transition after they join a troop.
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With respect, I would start with the 4th grade Webelos. I was around in the old 3 year Cub Scout program, when you had 9-12 months to earn both Webelos and AOL and cross over. One year was not enough time to prepare for the differences in programs. When the 18-24 month program came out in the 1990s, it was based upon research, and the training of the time emphasized the differences between the two programs and how Webelos needed to start transition in 4th grade. When the training got updated circa 2009, that information was not emphasized as much as the older training. IMHO separating al
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In his soul, every young man longs to know he is worthy... that he has "the right stuff". And he seeks this approval from other men whom he admires. (It is a profound evil that some men use this trait against a youth.) Unfortunately, all men are fallible. One day, the young man is mature enough to realize his approval of himself is what he ultimately needs. He is his own measurer, and harshest critic, because only he and his God know the whole, true story of himself. (And that realization will hopefully lead him on to a deeper truth.) The sooner I can help a youth to realize this, th
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@AwakeEnergyScouter, I appreciate your thoughtful reply. At that age, there wasn't anything that made me want to retreat from girls. In fact, my developing brain was probably pushing me toward them. Scouting gave me an opportunity to turn that part of my brain off for the weekend and enabled me to better absorb my troop experience. I didn't have to worry about body odor, acne, getting my hair just right, or "peacocking" (strutting around with my feathers out to ward off competing males). I don't think I was any less prepared for my adult life because I had been interacting with female pee
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We really old guys likely chuckle, or get annoyed by the complaints about that type of thing. I was 15 and a Life Scout when I was sitting on a log at campfire at old Camp Arataba and guys in nice regalia were moving about in the crowd. All of a sudden a very loud yell in my ear found me being jerked to my feet and pushed to the front of the area where I was "tapped out", and I mean TAPPED OUT. All of us were then taken to get sleeping bags and went off to the woods. Of course that was when most tap outs were done heavily and you might hear the shoulder tap a long way away. We all wore th
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Your mention of a lack of adults wanting to be in the outdoors reminded me of a post I saw on an OA FB page. A guy went through Ordeal and described it as the toughest thing he had ever done. I was rather shocked. He looks to be about mid-30s. I went through Ordeal at 17 and found it to be easier than a day at Philmont. Frankly, the Ordeal these days is easier than the Lodge induction at my old Catholic camp in southern Illinois. I think it was based on the OA when the camp opened in the 60s and was never really updated.
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The key point here is that fewer scouts (and likely their parents) want to camp ... ... as illustrated here Barry, I used to see that but not anymore. The parents I'm seeing aren't interested. One example is an eagle scout who worked at a high adventure base as a youth. When I said great, we can't wait to have you come on our next campout, he hemmed and hawed and said he doesn't do cold weather. We can take his kid but he won't come on that trip. I used to not worry about what the BSA did because I figured the parents would take up the slack and do scouting, one way or the
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The obvious answer is that we haven't changed the name of the organization enough. I'm certain people will be knocking the doors down now.
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We haven't been doing great working with our packs. In the past, the Pack leaders were much more responsive to our invites but recently most kids are dropping before getting to Boy Scouts. So, this is a bit of a Hail Mary. If we fail to recruit by fall 2025 our Troop will likely fold. Also, we have gone from 4 feeder packs 4 years ago to 1 this coming fall. 3 of the 4 packs have folded.
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Posts
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Last year there was a rumor out of the national meeting about a new program for older scouts to replace venturing. I think national is still baking that one, I cornered a local who is on one of the national committees and he was like "I know of the rumor you're talking about, I can't discuss that." and he wouldn't say a word. So I would say there is legs to the rumor but no one has details/will provide. Venturing is really in the decline where I am at. What I see is that some troops sporadically have a handful of engaged older scouts and so they form a crew for a couple years and then when those scouts go off to college the crew folds. In my area I think venturing is more of certain troops having a high adventure patrol than actually forming a crew per the BSA doctrine. -
Wow, lot of stuff to digest here. The cub program is fine. It has been fine. The updates that are kicking in June 1st (or abouts) will be an improvement. The key to the cub program is what many of you already touched on; disengaged parents will provide a poor program no matter what the program is. I do feel that there will be some more advanced WEBELOS that will get held back due to the new program; however, the overall 4th and 5th grade cubbing experience is going to be better for the majority of scouts. The key to retaining AOLs/capturing them into the troop level program is going to be troop to pack interaction. When I was at the pack I pushed the attitude of "Next years crossover starts this June!" and by the time I moved on the pack went from 25% or fewer AOLS crossing to about 80%. Your local troops have to be involved, they need to send den chiefs; those older scouts talking about all the cool troop level stuff that happens year round is a big part of hooking an AOL on crossing over. I don't get the order of the arrow. Somethings broken there. As others have stated it has moved from being an honor society to being a service society. As an outsider looking in I see elections as popularity contests, I know of a scout who camps 20+ nights a year, never turns down a service opportunity, but he just can't get elected year-over-year. Half the troop doesn't like this scout and he can't get in. I feel so bad for him; he is living the scout oath and law, he is camping, and he is doing service and he just can't get elected. So many of the other kids look at what has happened to him year-over-year and they are all "F that program, we don't want to be part of something like that." On top of that I personally don't see the service; our camp has a massive back log. I know that my council is part of the problem, I've spoken with people that I know in other councils and the OA experience is phenomenal; however, it seems like those lodges are far and few between. The lack of outdoors/camping is an issue. I think this goes back to something I read in another thread, the poster stated that back in the day it was a fight to see who was going to be SM, today it's a fight to see who isn't. What I see in my area is that most SMs fall into 1 of 2 buckets: Bucket 1 is the don't know squat bucket, and so the troops outdoor program falls apart and then the troop shrinks until folding. Bucket 2 is the SM only cares about his kid bucket and everyone else is along for the ride.
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I resemble that statement. The thing is those activities that scare the parents of 10.5 year-old crossovers, they want to do them by the time they turn 12-13 years old. So in the last 2 years we have had more scouts join by word-of-mouth, by talking to their friends doing fun stuff like this, than we have had by crossing over kids on their way out of elementary school. -
By RememberSchiff · Posted
From Newsweek "An online petition is calling for the Boy Scouts of America to reverse its planned name change...The name change, which is expected to go into effect on February 8, 2025—coinciding with the organization's 115th anniversary—sparked fierce backlash on social media." Sources: https://www.newsweek.com/boy-scouts-america-name-change-backlash-petition-1899301 https://www.change.org/p/save-boy-scouts -
By HashTagScouts · Posted
The undoing for me last year was the constant push on converting Candidate to Ordeal. The Lodge was in my view bordering on harassment for kids to attend Ordeal with emails every week. By the time you got to November, many parents would be unsubscribing from our email list, and when they changed LM to take that option out of mass emails, I'm sure many just started blocking our email. When Nat'l officially changed to allow 18 months to complete Ordeal, it was the last straw for me- to obvious it was about numbers which equal $$$ than it was about nor or quality in the achievement. for our Lodge, and many in the northern climes, elections took place in spring, and we'd have Ordeal weekends in May and either August & September or September & October. So, basically 3 opportunities after election. That 18 month change, the way it lays out on the calendar, was now 6 opportunities.
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