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  • IOLS complaint

    ok so just my opinion... a boy that has been an active scout all the way through the age of 18 and has earned the rank of Eagle should NOT have to go through IOLS training. Yes I can see the classroom part where they learn all the paperwork and rules stuff. But the going camping with a group of adults and work as a patrol and sit through lots of classes that teach things that he learned as a scout as well as has been teaching these things as part of being an older scout should NOT have to go through this.

    I have 2 scouts that are ageing out and are soon to be awarded eagle that are wanting to continue working with the troop. Neither of them want to go through the training. One has done the classroom part (happens to be my son and was there to help me with my anxiety in large groups in small rooms) but he still doesn't want to do the outdoor weekend training. With the whole soon to be "must be trained to charter" I can not charter them as ASM once that happens.

    I did only option I had for them... take youth protection online training and register as merit badge councilors and yes please come and continue to be involved with the troop and yes you can sign off requirements just as they had been doing as both were JASM for the troop.

    But I just think it's silly for them to waste their time and money for the training... plus to take up a space for someone that really does need the training and would rather have a smaller group going through to get more attention for them to really learn.

  • #2
    Ask if the iOLS director will let them staff the course instead and still get credit. Maybe as Troop Guides if not instructors.


    • #3
      Ask the DE to credit them as trained.


      • #4
        Don't Merit Badge Counselors need to be 21?


        • perdidochas
          perdidochas commented
          Editing a comment
          Nope, only 18. IIRC, committee members have to be 21. MBC and ASMs just have to be 18.

      • #5
        From the BSA website back in 2011:

        To help keep these young men in Scouting, a new registration code has been introduced – 92U, Unit College Scouter Reserve. Of course Youth Protection Training is required, but that is the only required course for the position. All of the registration application criteria and fees apply.


        • IM_Kathy
          IM_Kathy commented
          Editing a comment
          only problem with this is these young men aren't in college yet. They turned 18 the fall of their senior year of high school

      • #6
        Sounds like they'd be a huge asset to the class. They are close to the scouts and have a lot of knowledge to impart on participants. I would agree to see if there was a place for them to help teach the class.


        • #7
          He's got to take the course get over it. ​It is typically only a weekend, no big deal. There was a huge debate about testing out for boys like this, there is no way for it to be done in an impartial manner.

          As it has been argued many times on this board the quality of Eagle varies so widely that it has become an irrelevant standard for any measure of the quality of the scout.

          NO a MBC can be 18


          • #8
            I know we have produced some Eagles that were lousy campers....


            • perdidochas
              perdidochas commented
              Editing a comment
              I've seen them as well. That said, while I may have my doubts about their ability to do lashings, the last couple of Eagles we've had do know how to camp.

          • #9
            The IOLS is not just to help unexperienced old guys learn how to be a Scout. It involves cooperating with other Scouters, making new friends, learning Other Ways To Do It, correcting Wrong Ways Of Doing It, being reminded of The Scout Way To Do It, and , heck, it's another time to go camping. Why would an Eagle Scout NOT want a good excuse to go camping?
            Just because he's an Eagle (Mucho Congrats!) doesn't mean he Knows It All.... A good Scouter, I find is also a humble Scouter, and is always eager and open to Learn Something New and Share His/Her Knlwledge and Experience with others.

            If your Eagle truly does not think he belongs in the IOLS class, I will suggest that he will have a hard time every time somebody else says "you need to take this training to be this postion".

            Take the Training. Have fun. Show us your Scout Stuff....


            • #10
              My comment, Kathy, assumes that you have made a fair assessment of these boys' skills, that you are confident of their teaching ability, and that they may be known around the district for their skills as T2FC instructors. That's when the DE might help you get around that log-jam.

              This is not a matter of if they get trained. It's a matter of how they get trained. Your unit and the district may be better served if the boys go to a Powderhorn course, or COPE instructor course, or something else.

              But, keep in mind, they are adults. They should no longer be signing off on T2FC requirements. That's a job for PL and SPL. (Sure ASM's do it, but that's a worst case scenario, and the troop needs to change it's culture when that happens regularly.) As MBC they should only be signing blue cards for the badges they counsel.


              • #11
                You don't know what you don't know until someone challenges you.

                You don't know what all you possibly can learn from a class until you go.

                There are many things that can be learned at an IOLS class besides what's on the syllabus:
                • How much other scouters DON'T know, and you figure out how much you can rely on them.
                • Three different ways to do things, when you've only learned one way.
                • Different views: I thought all the scout troops in my area were heavy campers. My IOLS instructor eschewed campfires (LNT and they make your stuff stinky)
                • Candid discussions with other people you have never met before can bring out new ideas and attitudes or validate ideas you've come up with independently.
                More specifically, the young men should go to get more in practice of dealing with adults twice there age. They need to get used to that if they plan to volunteer through college.

                The more cynical lesson: Sometimes people don't believe you have the qualifications of your field until you are certified (accountants, lawyers, doctors, engineers, automotive mechanics).
                Yes certification is a pain, but do you really want to work with someone who doesn't want to put in the few hours to get it? What else will they not want to do?


                • Hueymungus
                  Hueymungus commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Great points! YIS

              • #12
                I will echo what koolaidman says. These soon to be Eagle Scouts should understand that training is required to get where you want to go. They didn't get to be Eagles without it. If they do not want to take the IOLS training, then they should not be registered. Do you really want a untrained person on staff?

                The other point is, ok, sure they should know how to camp a lot. Not every Troop backpacks or does a lot of hiking...correctly. A lot just car camp. Big difference. So, taking this might actually improve something that they should have learned or forgot. Also, if they are all OUTDOORSY, then maybe the one SM/ASM who is taking IOLS isn't and they can help them. EDGE.


                • #13
                  A large part of the learning at IOLS is from your fellow patrol members, not from the staff. They will be a huge asset to their patrol. If they really have the attitude that they can't learn anything in turn, then they have a lot more learning to do.


                  • #14

                    If his scout skills are as you say, he should be able to help the other guys in the class out. I had a similar experience. I was already an experienced camper, and I had been camping with the Troop as a parent/committee member/driver for a year, after 2 1/2 yrs as WDL. I knew most of the curriculum for IOLS (except for some nuances of LNT, and backpacking). I ended up helping the other students in knots and compass work.


                    • #15
                      I had an Eagle who was a year ahead in school and turned 18 at the beginning of his senior year of high school. He took IOLS the next spring and WB in the summer. When he gets out of the Air Force where he is doing his ticket, he's going to make one hell of a SM some place. Now all he has to do is wait until he's 21 and he's ready to go. He never mentioned during that whole time that he was wasting his time or money.