To weapon or not to weapon

[scottteng]

Here in WCFC we do not use the term weapon to describe a firearm. Most service personnel are used to referring to a firearm as a weapon and will do so until told we don't use the W word. They usually revert to parent mode rather quickly and grasp the concept. If they don't we suggest they carry only a 22 bolt action rifle to their next drill class instead of the more suitable true "weapon" they are enabled by their training to carry. I am familiar with the concept that there are no dangerous tools only dangerous people that employ them. I hope that our military have been trained so that they are all dangerous people to mess with.

I will set up a hypothetical example: we will have two identical day camp courses one to be billed as a weapons instruction course the other to be billed as a basic firearms safety course. Which of these courses will attain higher enrollment? As a parent which course would you sign your child up for? And why?

 

[theysawyoucomin']

I'd sign my kid up for the firearm course. That's what I strive to call it.

My kid will have a lot of guns someday. They are his we are just keeping them, and from time to time I use the ones that were his Grandfather's.

The only time I want him to bear a weapon is if someone is going to do harm to him, his family or anyone he can save.

That all being said, at the NRA cert course we just took we joked that who ever said the word "weapon" would have to buy a case of adult beverage. I was fine until I said, "make a complete safe weapon."

 

"Complete safe firearm" is like a tongue twister to me but I am practicing.

 

I think the kids will favor the weapon name but I don't think it's right. If his Mother was ever threatened by an intruder you would not have to tell the average kid what a weapon was, I think instinct would take over.

To kids weapons are what Arnold Schwarzy carries around in an action movie.

 

 

 

 

Safety first, never last, have a future, not a past.

[kbandit]

I would vote for Firearm safety. More PC correct. Weapons instruction sounds like they will be firing all kinds of things.(too military)

[hot_foot_eagle]

I prefer "shooting sports" to either "weapons training" or "firearms safety."

 

I don't think using the word weapon should be completely taboo, because its occasional use - intentional or otherwise - does reinforce the idea that firearms are not toys and there are serious consequences to their use and misuse.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Here it is, from the Language of Scouting:

http://www.scouting.org/identity/los/los.jsp?typ=los&how=alfa&wat=W

 

weapons

"Gun" is an acceptable term for any firearm. Note the following definitions:

 

caliber. A measurement of the diameter of the inside of a gun barrel except for most shotguns. Measurement is in either millimeters or decimal fractions of an inch. The word "caliber" is not used when giving the metric measurement. The forms: "a 9 mm pistol," "a .22-caliber rifle."

gauge. This word describes the size of a shotgun. Gauge is expressed in terms of the number per pound of round lead balls with a diameter equal to the size of the barrel. The larger the number, the smaller the shotgun. Some common gauges are 10, 12, 16, 20, and 28. The .410 is actually a caliber, but is called a gauge.

muzzleloader. One word, no hyphen. A firearm in which the propellant and projectile are inserted down the barrel instead of through a breech mechanism. The forms: "firing a muzzleloader," "a muzzleloading shotgun," "a muzzleloading pistol."

pistol. Any handgun that does not hold its ammunition in a revolving cylinder. It may be "a single shot," "a semiautomatic," or "an automatic." Its measurement is in calibers or millimeters. The forms: "a .45-caliber pistol," "a 9 mm pistol."

revolver. A handgun. Its cartridges are held in chambers in a cylinder that revolves. The form: "a .38-caliber revolver."

rifle. A firearm designed or made to be fired from the shoulder and having a rifled bore. It uses bullets or cartridges for ammunition. Its size is measured in calibers. The form: "a .22-caliber rifle."

shell. The word applies to military ammunition and to shotgun ammunition.

shot. Small lead or steel pellets fired by shotguns. A shotgun shell usually contains 1 to 2 ounces of shot. Do not use "shot" interchangeably with "buckshot," which refers only to the largest shot sizes.

shotgun. A small-arms gun with a smooth bore, sometimes double-barreled. Its ammunition is shot. Its size is measured in gauges. The form: "a 12-gauge shotgun."

 

As for those of us who were once Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Coast Guardsmen, and Airmen, I think we've all heard shouted this ditty to our Platoons while running the bay at Attention (hopefully we were not the hapless one):

 

THIS IS MY WEAPON!!!!

 

THIS IS MY GUN...

 

ONE IS FOR FIGHTING!!!!

 

One is for fun...

[OldGreyEagle]

When I was in Camp School for Shooting Sports our Lead Instructor was a retired police officier from Buffalo, New York. He did not use the "W" word, he said a weapon was a firearm used in the commission of a crime, or alleged crime and as such no Boy Scout Camp would ever have a "weapon". He further went on to say weapons were for defensive or offensive actions, again something not needed in a Boy Scout Camp.

 

So, while I aim at targets with my rifle/firearm/gun, I protect my home with my weapon.

[packsaddle]

I vote 'firearm' as well. 'Shooting sports' is good too.

When I was growing up, most of the guns around me squirted grease, caulk, or paint. Today the place is awash in firearms.

When I was growing up, owning a .22 rifle was a big deal. Today some of us only feel complete with personal arsenals. South Carolina is now considering a law to allow concealed weapons in schools. As I read it, this will include sports events like football games, etc. Teachers may want to be extra careful what they say during lecture ...Things have certainly changed.

[Eagledad]

>>would vote for Firearm safety. More PC correct.

[Lisabob]

er, ah, Barry, nothing quite like the gender stereotyping there in your last paragraph, hmm?

 

I don't care what we call them - guns, tools, fire arms, weapons, shooting sticks, take your pick. When I did range master training, we were told that the BSA doesn't refer to them as weapons for the same reason that the BSA doesn't offer belt loops or merit badges for styles of martial arts that it deems to be aggressive in nature. Yeah ok, whatever. I've got bigger worries than which word we use here so I'll happily comply with the BSA preference and be on my way. Let's get to the basics of teaching kids to use these - things - in a responsible, safe, fun manner.

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>er, ah, Barry, nothing quite like the gender stereotyping there in your last paragraph, hmm?

[Stosh]

Gotta love it.

 

Totin' Chit training is a form of weapons training. To say a knife and/or ax is not a potential weapon isn't fooling anyone. Bow and Arrow are weapons as are walking sticks and medium sized rocks, small rocks in a sling-shot. A well trained martial arts participcant knows his/her body can be used as a weapon.

 

Weapon is not a word to describe a gun, revolver, or any other shooting device, it refers to the use of firearms, projectiles, or hand held blades or clubs.

 

A weapon is used to offend and defend. I can threaten someone with an ax and defend myself with a knife. However, I do not use a weapon to cut up potatoes in the kitchen or to make kindling for the fire. When I target practice or plink I shoot a handgun, but I use a weapon to defend my home.

 

If we are training boys to offend and defend, we can call it a weapon, if we are teaching them to shoot guns and bows, then we call it guns and bows because we are not training them to be used as weapons.

 

Stosh

[dan]

 

Before I can answer this I need to know What is WCFC?

 

West Central Florida Coast?

 

We Can make First Class?

[scottteng]

Sorry Dan for my laziness it is too hard to type West Central Florida Council. Especially since we do not officially exist according to the Florida roster on this site.

That camp school director mentioned before must have taught our shooting sports directors which in turn have passed that on to all us range staff.

[dan]

No need to apologize, I was thinking that maybe you where in the Armed Forces or Coast Guard. It was so simply and I tried to make it more complex than it was.

[Gunny2862]

I agree that in advertising a course to the parents that a Firearms Safety Course is going to get a bigger draw than a Weapons Instruction Course, but if you are going to make a change why prejudice it by not making them both (Insert Firearms or Weapon) Safety Courses? or (Insert Firearms or Weapon)Instruction Courses? Making one Instruction and the other Safety changes the discourse without regard to the item being taught.

 

Look quite frankly after experiencing many years of Close Combat Training, L.I.N.E Training, Tae Kwon Do, breaking up mild(hand only) and other disagreements, and the current USMC Martial Arts programs there are just a whole lot of things that can be called weapons. "One Mind, any Weapon" comes to mind.

 

A firearm is a weapon regardless of the use to which it is currently being put, just like a Steak knife, Pocket knife, Camp Axe, Ice pick, CD case or even a pencil...

 

Only a LEO would originate the idea that weapon designates that it had been involved in the commission of a crime.

 

And finally I don't think that something being PC makes it the way it should be referred to. The only thing it makes it, is more PC than another term. And it that necessarily a good thing? Since the PC version often obfuscates the meaning of the original term.