DOD/DOW Money Talks Free Military Memberships Hypothesis

[Tron]

So my understanding is that the West Point Camporee is a go but we don't know much except that the formal sponsor has changed to the cadet association (from what I have heard). It is also my understanding that the military is going to continue its support of the national jamboree. 

There are not clear military membership numbers from what I can see at my level; however, I have some visibility into the European Command and Indo-Pacific Command memberships because of the special BSA councils set up to support the accompanied families. 

My hypothesis on the free memberships for military families is this: The DOW basically told Scouting America that the DOW costs to support just the jamboree were SO high that they want something back for the military if the partnership was going to continue. Part of the give back is the free memberships for military families. I estimate that BSA is going to give up around $638,000 in membership fees each year; however, I also estimate that the cost of the US Army providing a 9-line to the national jamboree (just that 1 line item of support) is going to cost the DOW $880,000. I am thinking that this was all a money issue of "Give us something or you can go out and pay for what we give you for free". 

I will say this, the free memberships for military families is a great thing. There are a lot of junior enlisted families that have ZERO disposable income to put towards a program like scouting for their children. BAH and BAS barely cover living expenses for married junior enlisted. There are E1s out there trying to cover all other living expenses for their families on pay lower than what McDonalds flunkies get paid. 

[yknot]

14 hours ago, Tron said:

So my understanding is that the West Point Camporee is a go but we don't know much except that the formal sponsor has changed to the cadet association (from what I have heard). It is also my understanding that the military is going to continue its support of the national jamboree. 

There are not clear military membership numbers from what I can see at my level; however, I have some visibility into the European Command and Indo-Pacific Command memberships because of the special BSA councils set up to support the accompanied families. 

My hypothesis on the free memberships for military families is this: The DOW basically told Scouting America that the DOW costs to support just the jamboree were SO high that they want something back for the military if the partnership was going to continue. Part of the give back is the free memberships for military families. I estimate that BSA is going to give up around $638,000 in membership fees each year; however, I also estimate that the cost of the US Army providing a 9-line to the national jamboree (just that 1 line item of support) is going to cost the DOW $880,000. I am thinking that this was all a money issue of "Give us something or you can go out and pay for what we give you for free". 

I will say this, the free memberships for military families is a great thing. There are a lot of junior enlisted families that have ZERO disposable income to put towards a program like scouting for their children. BAH and BAS barely cover living expenses for married junior enlisted. There are E1s out there trying to cover all other living expenses for their families on pay lower than what McDonalds flunkies get paid. 

Somewhere I saw that the number of military memberships overall is around 25,000. If that's true, then waiving the national fee for those youth will remove around $2 million. A lot of money, but not catastrophic although it likely means another increase in the national fee, which might be further amplified by the effect of the ongoing membership drop. 

[skeptic]

As I noted locally, we now pretty much have the ball in our respective courts, and we are challenged to find the correct direction, on our local levels.  This can lead to some truly great outcomes, but it may also find greater challenges for locals, especially those already struggling.  Local councils are an enigma it seems, either poorly led, or simply overwhelmed by National directives and erratic direction.  Time will tell.  I hope the true Spirit wins out and comes out stronger.  

[Tron]

4 hours ago, yknot said:

Somewhere I saw that the number of military memberships overall is around 25,000. If that's true, then waiving the national fee for those youth will remove around $2 million. A lot of money, but not catastrophic although it likely means another increase in the national fee, which might be further amplified by the effect of the ongoing membership drop. 

If giving away 2 million in free memberships is cheaper than paying for things like the West Point Camporee and JAMBO it's still a win for scouting. 

3 hours ago, skeptic said:

As I noted locally, we now pretty much have the ball in our respective courts, and we are challenged to find the correct direction, on our local levels.  This can lead to some truly great outcomes, but it may also find greater challenges for locals, especially those already struggling.  Local councils are an enigma it seems, either poorly led, or simply overwhelmed by National directives and erratic direction.  Time will tell.  I hope the true Spirit wins out and comes out stronger.  

Not really, there is no such thing as "ball in our respective courts" in a franchise based organization. Councils, districts, and units either align to the national program and directives or eventually get burned. I would suspect that if the national debt is retired at the end of 2028 as planned we will see significant changes in how national responds to all of these rogue councils doing their own thing. Right now national is too busy trying to keep the house from burning down to worry about the outhouse. 

[yknot]

17 hours ago, Tron said:

If giving away 2 million in free memberships is cheaper than paying for things like the West Point Camporee and JAMBO it's still a win for scouting. 

Scouting really didn't/doesn't need the West Point Camporee or Jamboree to deliver program though. Both events serve very few scouts in the scheme of things. I think the potential loss of the Eagle Scout promotion and pay upgrades was likely much more consequential, especially since attaining Eagle is the single most important marketing point for the US program. It's a potential benefit noted in almost all the marketing materials and is positioned as almost a Good Housekeeping seal of approval from the U.S. Military of the scouting program. That, and the ability to operate units on US bases were likely the biggest items on the table. 

 

[Tron]

12 hours ago, yknot said:

Scouting really didn't/doesn't need the West Point Camporee or Jamboree to deliver program though. Both events serve very few scouts in the scheme of things. I think the potential loss of the Eagle Scout promotion and pay upgrades was likely much more consequential, especially since attaining Eagle is the single most important marketing point for the US program. It's a potential benefit noted in almost all the marketing materials and is positioned as almost a Good Housekeeping seal of approval from the U.S. Military of the scouting program. That, and the ability to operate units on US bases were likely the biggest items on the table. 

 

Having eagle is a good thing for people enlisting in the military; when I was on recruiting detail we always did the extra paperwork to get the enlistee E4 (not E3 as a lot of other people claim) which was a HUGE pay difference. But there is no seal of approval. We would recognize that a skillset should be there, and we would reward you like we would reward college education or high physical fitness; however, once an eagle shipped to basic they were garbage just like everyone else. 

There is literally no mechanism to block scouting from operating on military bases; none, why do people keep saying stuff like this? The on base school PTOs, the FRGs, the USO offices, the Legion posts off base, the VFW posts off base, are all the charter orgs. "Derpy derp derp, can't meet on base." -- Random Politician, "Why not? Is there a youth based risk to the garrison that we need to evaluate that we need to assess multi-dimensionally across all youth groups?" -- Garrison Commander

It's all about the money. Plain and simple. Where is @Armymutt on this, he's still serving. 

 

[qwazse]

I can think of no faster way to decommission a garrison than to deny programs that servicemen and women want for their kids. That said, even among military families, demand for scouting programs is limited.

The West Point camporee, should it turn its attention to Trail Life youth, could be a game changer for that organization. On the other hand, the school will have less access to youth.

BSA faces a sunken cost dilemma with Summit. The DoD has a similar issue. Sec Def would have to pose a different mechanism to spend a million and have access to tens of thousands of high school students for a week. I’m pretty sure congress would be skeptical of any other scheme for that price.

Also, SBR has some nice terrain for drone training. There’s a deal to be made here.

[Tron]

On 3/5/2026 at 12:13 PM, qwazse said:

I can think of no faster way to decommission a garrison than to deny programs that servicemen and women want for their kids. That said, even among military families, demand for scouting programs is limited.

The West Point camporee, should it turn its attention to Trail Life youth, could be a game changer for that organization. On the other hand, the school will have less access to youth.

BSA faces a sunken cost dilemma with Summit. The DoD has a similar issue. Sec Def would have to pose a different mechanism to spend a million and have access to tens of thousands of high school students for a week. I’m pretty sure congress would be skeptical of any other scheme for that price.

Also, SBR has some nice terrain for drone training. There’s a deal to be made here.

That's not how garrisons work. Just not. I guess another non-military non-veteran thought on something this week. 

The West Point camporee presents a unique situation where cadre and cadets put so much into it because so many have a connection to scouting back home and get to invite their home troop. Not even GSUSA can replicate that network and process. No other scouting organization will have that relationship, it took half a century and literally millions of past members of BSA to create that network and connection to the academy. If Scouting America gets kicked out of the West Point camporee it means the camporee is dead. 

I highly doubt any other scouting organization will have a relationship with the military like Scouting America. Congress no longer issues charters for some reason; I've seen how this affects newer veterans groups, too late to the table and unable to fill the same space as the older groups like AL or VFW; those groups become niche organizations that are mostly filled by politically hungry people unwilling to put their time in to get district or state level leadership positions in the older groups. 

Trail Life in itself has some other issues that will keep it on the outside, Right now the political arm of the military is VERY protestant and pushing a very protestant position towards things; however, most of the military historically doesn't practice religion outside of boot camp (lots of "no-religion" people suddenly become "Non-denominational Christian" in boot camp when they realize the church goers go to mass on Sunday while the non-church goers scrub floors and garbage cans). Then toss in that the overwhelming largest religious group in the military is Catholic and you have a big problem (The Catholic church endorses Scouting America as it's partner group through NCCS, and Trail Life is anti-Magisterium).