DOD/DOW Money Talks Free Military Memberships Hypothesis

[Tron]

So my understanding is that the West Point Camporee is a go but we don't know much except that the formal sponsor has changed to the cadet association (from what I have heard). It is also my understanding that the military is going to continue its support of the national jamboree. 

There are not clear military membership numbers from what I can see at my level; however, I have some visibility into the European Command and Indo-Pacific Command memberships because of the special BSA councils set up to support the accompanied families. 

My hypothesis on the free memberships for military families is this: The DOW basically told Scouting America that the DOW costs to support just the jamboree were SO high that they want something back for the military if the partnership was going to continue. Part of the give back is the free memberships for military families. I estimate that BSA is going to give up around $638,000 in membership fees each year; however, I also estimate that the cost of the US Army providing a 9-line to the national jamboree (just that 1 line item of support) is going to cost the DOW $880,000. I am thinking that this was all a money issue of "Give us something or you can go out and pay for what we give you for free". 

I will say this, the free memberships for military families is a great thing. There are a lot of junior enlisted families that have ZERO disposable income to put towards a program like scouting for their children. BAH and BAS barely cover living expenses for married junior enlisted. There are E1s out there trying to cover all other living expenses for their families on pay lower than what McDonalds flunkies get paid. 

[yknot]

14 hours ago, Tron said:

So my understanding is that the West Point Camporee is a go but we don't know much except that the formal sponsor has changed to the cadet association (from what I have heard). It is also my understanding that the military is going to continue its support of the national jamboree. 

There are not clear military membership numbers from what I can see at my level; however, I have some visibility into the European Command and Indo-Pacific Command memberships because of the special BSA councils set up to support the accompanied families. 

My hypothesis on the free memberships for military families is this: The DOW basically told Scouting America that the DOW costs to support just the jamboree were SO high that they want something back for the military if the partnership was going to continue. Part of the give back is the free memberships for military families. I estimate that BSA is going to give up around $638,000 in membership fees each year; however, I also estimate that the cost of the US Army providing a 9-line to the national jamboree (just that 1 line item of support) is going to cost the DOW $880,000. I am thinking that this was all a money issue of "Give us something or you can go out and pay for what we give you for free". 

I will say this, the free memberships for military families is a great thing. There are a lot of junior enlisted families that have ZERO disposable income to put towards a program like scouting for their children. BAH and BAS barely cover living expenses for married junior enlisted. There are E1s out there trying to cover all other living expenses for their families on pay lower than what McDonalds flunkies get paid. 

Somewhere I saw that the number of military memberships overall is around 25,000. If that's true, then waiving the national fee for those youth will remove around $2 million. A lot of money, but not catastrophic although it likely means another increase in the national fee, which might be further amplified by the effect of the ongoing membership drop. 

[skeptic]

As I noted locally, we now pretty much have the ball in our respective courts, and we are challenged to find the correct direction, on our local levels.  This can lead to some truly great outcomes, but it may also find greater challenges for locals, especially those already struggling.  Local councils are an enigma it seems, either poorly led, or simply overwhelmed by National directives and erratic direction.  Time will tell.  I hope the true Spirit wins out and comes out stronger.  

[Tron]

4 hours ago, yknot said:

Somewhere I saw that the number of military memberships overall is around 25,000. If that's true, then waiving the national fee for those youth will remove around $2 million. A lot of money, but not catastrophic although it likely means another increase in the national fee, which might be further amplified by the effect of the ongoing membership drop. 

If giving away 2 million in free memberships is cheaper than paying for things like the West Point Camporee and JAMBO it's still a win for scouting. 

3 hours ago, skeptic said:

As I noted locally, we now pretty much have the ball in our respective courts, and we are challenged to find the correct direction, on our local levels.  This can lead to some truly great outcomes, but it may also find greater challenges for locals, especially those already struggling.  Local councils are an enigma it seems, either poorly led, or simply overwhelmed by National directives and erratic direction.  Time will tell.  I hope the true Spirit wins out and comes out stronger.  

Not really, there is no such thing as "ball in our respective courts" in a franchise based organization. Councils, districts, and units either align to the national program and directives or eventually get burned. I would suspect that if the national debt is retired at the end of 2028 as planned we will see significant changes in how national responds to all of these rogue councils doing their own thing. Right now national is too busy trying to keep the house from burning down to worry about the outhouse. 

[yknot]

17 hours ago, Tron said:

If giving away 2 million in free memberships is cheaper than paying for things like the West Point Camporee and JAMBO it's still a win for scouting. 

Scouting really didn't/doesn't need the West Point Camporee or Jamboree to deliver program though. Both events serve very few scouts in the scheme of things. I think the potential loss of the Eagle Scout promotion and pay upgrades was likely much more consequential, especially since attaining Eagle is the single most important marketing point for the US program. It's a potential benefit noted in almost all the marketing materials and is positioned as almost a Good Housekeeping seal of approval from the U.S. Military of the scouting program. That, and the ability to operate units on US bases were likely the biggest items on the table. 

 

[Tron]

12 hours ago, yknot said:

Scouting really didn't/doesn't need the West Point Camporee or Jamboree to deliver program though. Both events serve very few scouts in the scheme of things. I think the potential loss of the Eagle Scout promotion and pay upgrades was likely much more consequential, especially since attaining Eagle is the single most important marketing point for the US program. It's a potential benefit noted in almost all the marketing materials and is positioned as almost a Good Housekeeping seal of approval from the U.S. Military of the scouting program. That, and the ability to operate units on US bases were likely the biggest items on the table. 

 

Having eagle is a good thing for people enlisting in the military; when I was on recruiting detail we always did the extra paperwork to get the enlistee E4 (not E3 as a lot of other people claim) which was a HUGE pay difference. But there is no seal of approval. We would recognize that a skillset should be there, and we would reward you like we would reward college education or high physical fitness; however, once an eagle shipped to basic they were garbage just like everyone else. 

There is literally no mechanism to block scouting from operating on military bases; none, why do people keep saying stuff like this? The on base school PTOs, the FRGs, the USO offices, the Legion posts off base, the VFW posts off base, are all the charter orgs. "Derpy derp derp, can't meet on base." -- Random Politician, "Why not? Is there a youth based risk to the garrison that we need to evaluate that we need to assess multi-dimensionally across all youth groups?" -- Garrison Commander

It's all about the money. Plain and simple. Where is @Armymutt on this, he's still serving. 

 

[qwazse]

I can think of no faster way to decommission a garrison than to deny programs that servicemen and women want for their kids. That said, even among military families, demand for scouting programs is limited.

The West Point camporee, should it turn its attention to Trail Life youth, could be a game changer for that organization. On the other hand, the school will have less access to youth.

BSA faces a sunken cost dilemma with Summit. The DoD has a similar issue. Sec Def would have to pose a different mechanism to spend a million and have access to tens of thousands of high school students for a week. I’m pretty sure congress would be skeptical of any other scheme for that price.

Also, SBR has some nice terrain for drone training. There’s a deal to be made here.

[Tron]

On 3/5/2026 at 12:13 PM, qwazse said:

I can think of no faster way to decommission a garrison than to deny programs that servicemen and women want for their kids. That said, even among military families, demand for scouting programs is limited.

The West Point camporee, should it turn its attention to Trail Life youth, could be a game changer for that organization. On the other hand, the school will have less access to youth.

BSA faces a sunken cost dilemma with Summit. The DoD has a similar issue. Sec Def would have to pose a different mechanism to spend a million and have access to tens of thousands of high school students for a week. I’m pretty sure congress would be skeptical of any other scheme for that price.

Also, SBR has some nice terrain for drone training. There’s a deal to be made here.

That's not how garrisons work. Just not. I guess another non-military non-veteran thought on something this week. 

The West Point camporee presents a unique situation where cadre and cadets put so much into it because so many have a connection to scouting back home and get to invite their home troop. Not even GSUSA can replicate that network and process. No other scouting organization will have that relationship, it took half a century and literally millions of past members of BSA to create that network and connection to the academy. If Scouting America gets kicked out of the West Point camporee it means the camporee is dead. 

I highly doubt any other scouting organization will have a relationship with the military like Scouting America. Congress no longer issues charters for some reason; I've seen how this affects newer veterans groups, too late to the table and unable to fill the same space as the older groups like AL or VFW; those groups become niche organizations that are mostly filled by politically hungry people unwilling to put their time in to get district or state level leadership positions in the older groups. 

Trail Life in itself has some other issues that will keep it on the outside, Right now the political arm of the military is VERY protestant and pushing a very protestant position towards things; however, most of the military historically doesn't practice religion outside of boot camp (lots of "no-religion" people suddenly become "Non-denominational Christian" in boot camp when they realize the church goers go to mass on Sunday while the non-church goers scrub floors and garbage cans). Then toss in that the overwhelming largest religious group in the military is Catholic and you have a big problem (The Catholic church endorses Scouting America as it's partner group through NCCS, and Trail Life is anti-Magisterium). 

[Armymutt]

Well, since I was tagged, I'll talk about what I know.  First off, I'm retired as of Halloween 2025.  My only connection to the military is my ID card and my daughter's Pack.  I will say that the military, at least the Army, is very much a cross section of America.  Scouting is not as big as it was in the 90s.  My perspective was in England, so there was a whole lot less for a high schooler to do.  I think that threats to yank the Eagle promotion were petty and unbecoming of an officer - who punishes some kid because of a disagreement with an organization run by adults.  The military-BSA relationship CONUS-wise is not as significantly important as it is OCONUS.  It would be extremely rare to find a BSA troop outside of a military installation.  I don't know about DoS facilities, but I assume any troops they have fall under FEC/TAC.  To terminate the relationship would probably not end program participation for the hardcore Scouters and Scouts, but it would make it more challenging to execute.  

I am hopeful for the free registration for military members.  As mentioned above, we have a lot of enlisted folks who have little spare change.  I think it might be a double-edge sword though, as it doesn't apply to council fee and unit dues.  There's a lot of people who aren't particularly keen on looking into things closely and reading the not-so-fine print.  They will see "free Scouting" and then get upset to find out that they have to pay something.  I foresee some headaches for pack leadership in particular.  BSA has financially benefitted significantly from the partnership with DOD in the past and vice versa, in terms of maintaining Ft. AP Hill.  These days, the relationship is far more personal to the military, since the jamboree has moved to SBR.  I don't think there are any Scouting-wide events held on a military installation.  It's all serving military communities.  

[mrjohns2]

On 3/25/2026 at 3:26 PM, Armymutt said:

it doesn't apply to council fee

Our council has said they will work with other donors to have it be free free besides unit dues. Our SE said it wouldn't be very trustworthy to say "free" and then turn around with our hand out and say "well, you still have to pay us". 

[jcousino]

On 4/13/2026 at 9:05 PM, mrjohns2 said:

Our council has said they will work with other donors to have it be free free besides unit dues. Our SE said it wouldn't be very trustworthy to say "free" and then turn around with our hand out and say "well, you still have to pay us". 

But that's normal scouting

[Jameson76]

On 3/5/2026 at 1:13 PM, qwazse said:

BSA faces a sunken cost dilemma with Summit.

You don't mean that spending almost $1,000,000,000 (yes BILLION) dollars on a property / facility that really has no purpose, did not meet an unfilled need, and has no road to profitability may have a negative impact on the organization that dumped all that money into it??  I am shocked.

Edited April 17 by Jameson76

[mrjohns2]

On 4/17/2026 at 3:08 PM, jcousino said:

But that's normal scouting

Can you tell he is an outside hire? And in his first year?

[skeptic]

On 4/17/2026 at 3:48 PM, Jameson76 said:

You don't mean that spending almost $1,000,000,000 (yes BILLION) dollars on a property / facility that really has no purpose, did not meet an unfilled need, and has no road to profitability may have a negative impact on the organization that dumped all that money into it??  I am shocked.

While the expense issue may have feet, it is not totally accurate.  The facility has proven useful and viable over more recent times.  Will it recoup its cost; that is up to those who can think outside the boxes.  Most camps, once outfitted with basic needs, can be used for many things besides camping or special programs.  And there seems no reason, other than attitude or bias to somehow not offer the space and facilities to outside groups, both as ways to offset expenses, but also as effective utilization of facilities and structures.  It might take a while, but it can and should reach a balance.  The same thing seems common to many council camps that have fallen or barely hanging on.  The local council has upkeep issues, especially as the facility gets older.  But, while the have, for example, say a high level climbing wall, it is standing unused more often than used.  Iff a program of cooperative use with local climbing groups and maybe even schools were to be developed, it could becaome a viable resource and improve all parties programs.  A camp has kitchen and dining hall that is used during Council activities, but often sits unused.  Could a local area cooking school perhaps use it for training in the off-season?  Could that same school fill a summer need as well that is often a real struggle?  The camp is located relatively near seasonal outdoor opportunities; could it be rented out when not used by the council, allowing more people to experience the winter sports and so on?

We come back to the missed opportunity position far too often.  Would the ideas work; probably with proper planning and follow.  But someone says "can't", or we do not have the sources, or other excuses, so the facility ages and disappears.  Not only is this ignorance, but it is lost opportunity.  Some camps also could be used by the FS for training locations, though currently our misguided (my opinion) leadership is doing all it can to decimate the FS and Parks.  Our now lost camp a decade or two back became a six week + basecamp for a major wildfire fight.  They took over the whole facility and it proved viable and also put our camp and council in a good light.  FS for a long time came as part of the Fire Safety skills program in the summer, bringing trucks and tools to share and demonstrate.  But could the site have also been an option regularly for training how to fight the fires, even for non Scouting people?  

So many times "Can't" is the answer, and nobody challenges that.  Our lost camp was built by local groups who felt the Scouting program needed the

[Tron]

3 hours ago, skeptic said:

While the expense issue may have feet, it is not totally accurate.  The facility has proven useful and viable over more recent times.  Will it recoup its cost; that is up to those who can think outside the boxes.  Most camps, once outfitted with basic needs, can be used for many things besides camping or special programs.  And there seems no reason, other than attitude or bias to somehow not offer the space and facilities to outside groups, both as ways to offset expenses, but also as effective utilization of facilities and structures.  It might take a while, but it can and should reach a balance.  The same thing seems common to many council camps that have fallen or barely hanging on.  The local council has upkeep issues, especially as the facility gets older.  But, while the have, for example, say a high level climbing wall, it is standing unused more often than used.  Iff a program of cooperative use with local climbing groups and maybe even schools were to be developed, it could becaome a viable resource and improve all parties programs.  A camp has kitchen and dining hall that is used during Council activities, but often sits unused.  Could a local area cooking school perhaps use it for training in the off-season?  Could that same school fill a summer need as well that is often a real struggle?  The camp is located relatively near seasonal outdoor opportunities; could it be rented out when not used by the council, allowing more people to experience the winter sports and so on?

We come back to the missed opportunity position far too often.  Would the ideas work; probably with proper planning and follow.  But someone says "can't", or we do not have the sources, or other excuses, so the facility ages and disappears.  Not only is this ignorance, but it is lost opportunity.  Some camps also could be used by the FS for training locations, though currently our misguided (my opinion) leadership is doing all it can to decimate the FS and Parks.  Our now lost camp a decade or two back became a six week + basecamp for a major wildfire fight.  They took over the whole facility and it proved viable and also put our camp and council in a good light.  FS for a long time came as part of the Fire Safety skills program in the summer, bringing trucks and tools to share and demonstrate.  But could the site have also been an option regularly for training how to fight the fires, even for non Scouting people?  

So many times "Can't" is the answer, and nobody challenges that.  Our lost camp was built by local groups who felt the Scouting program needed the

Brad Tilden made several speeches last year about this. National knows this. I remember Brad saying basically "No airline flies a plane with 1 or 2 passengers and only once in a while." 

A lot of camps sit empty 40 weeks out the year without program, nay, it might be MOST camps sit empty 40 weeks out of the year without program. Additionally, every council I am aware of does a horrible job of getting units to camp the 40 or so unused weekends year. As a business the camp is a sunk cost that councils have to pay to maintain and monitor 365.