Campout without cellphones

[Armymutt]

A couple weeks ago, the acting SM announced that cellphone were no longer allowed at Scouting functions.  Internalizing this new rule seems a bit slow.  This Friday, we arrived at camp.  Noticing one Scout playing on his phone, the SM reminded him of the rule, and the phone was secured.  A general announcement was made and the remaining phones were collected and secured in a locked vehicle.  Turns out, the Scouts actually interact more and get more done without having to be constantly told when they aren't staring at a screen.  We had absolutely no issues, until today because a parent couldn't send routine messages to their son.  Nothing emergent.  We were only 30 minutes from home but it was a massive issue for them.  Personally, I'm of the mindset that if you need your child to constantly have a cellphone, then you need to be present with that child to ensure the phone isn't used for cyber bullying or violating YP rules.  Otherwise, you need to trust the system and let your child develop into an independent being.  There were no parts of the campout that required the use of a phone.  If we were going to do the orienteering course, phones would have been returned for that training portion.

[skeptic]

In this "modern" society, banning phones is nearly impossible.  As noted, some parents defer to the phone as part of their parenting oversight, and if the kid does not respond promptly, issues arise.  Our unit took a number of years to adjust to the issue, but over time, the scouts learned when and when not to be on the phone, for the most part.  Ideally, there might be a phone designed that does not have all the apps and games available, but still has the tools that are useful, such as the GPS, camara, and distance finder, fro example.  A no wind issue today I fear.  Meanwhile, I am at a loss how to use my phone, so the wonderful stuff seldom is utilized, and I have not found the patience to get the crash course.  .  

[Armymutt]

The public schools across the country have banned cellphones unless medically necessary, like a glucose monitor.  

[MikeS72]

46 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

The public schools across the country have banned cellphones unless medically necessary, like a glucose monitor.  

As soon as it was announced here that there would be a ban on phones in grades K-8 we saw multiple parents on the news complaining and threatening to sue.

[Armymutt]

33 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

As soon as it was announced here that there would be a ban on phones in grades K-8 we saw multiple parents on the news complaining and threatening to sue.

I'm waiting for that.  The solution is for them to become leaders and monitor the cellphone usage by their Scout, away from all the other Scouts.  The cellphone must be secured by an adult unless the adult is present while it is in use.  The only exception to this rule is when a Scout is using the phone as a means to provide training.  After that, the cellphone goes away.

We also have parents who complain because their Scout is tasked with providing training on Tenderfoot through First Class skills.  "They already did that!" is apparently the phrase.  As if Scouting is a one and done type of program.  

[mrjohns2]

2 hours ago, Armymutt said:

We had absolutely no issues, until today because a parent couldn't send routine messages to their son.  Nothing emergent.  We were only 30 minutes from home but it was a massive issue for them. 

Did the parent know of the new plan?

[Armymutt]

17 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Did the parent know of the new plan?

Don't know.  Depends on whether or not their Scout told them.  This isn't Cub Scouts.  I expect the Scout to tell their parents about the rule changes their PL puts out.  

[RememberSchiff]

Good grief.

The cellphone is just another tool like a pocketknife. Maybe add to chit card. If a scout abuses the privilege, take it away, teach, trust, and return it.

My $0.02.

P.S. SOS Flashlight is a pretty cool and simple Android app.

[Armymutt]

23 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Good grief.

The cellphone is just another tool like a pocketknife. Maybe add to chit card. If a scout abuses the privilege, take it away, teach, trust, and return it.

My $0.02.

P.S. SOS Flashlight is a pretty cool and simple Android app.

How do you ensure it isn't being used to stay up all night?  How do you ensure it isn't being used to bully?  We actually had conversations going on vs the total silence we had during summer camp where everyone was glued to their screens.  We have a bunch of "barracks lawyers" who complain that we didn't specify this or that wasn't permitted.  It's far easier to simply put them away safely.  I don't need an 11 y/o freaking out again and yelling at us that he's not going back to camp because he set his $1000 phone down somewhere.

[RememberSchiff]

A Scout is Trustworthy.  And scouting is not easy.

Teach them how to responsibly use tools.  And yes they will fail but try again and again... learn by doing. Share the troop policy with parents. For example, how to fully charge phones before activity and how to find a missing scout or a phone via a phone.

Back in the day, we scouts had nighttime competitions as to who could tune in the furthest AM station. We would be up all Friday night, however we soon learned the downside - dragging or missing fun Saturday activities. Wiser by Sat night, we slept and were ready for Sunday activities. Scouting is a learning experience.

It is far easier to simply...  but it is far better to use the Scout methods.

Another $0.02.

[Tron]

I think there are two or three things here. 

The scouts do not need to have their phones out and as adults we have an opportunity to teach the scouts to exercise self control by keeping their phones put away unless truly needed. Taking away and securing the phones as a default behavior makes adult leaders the wardens and conditions the scouts to being told when it is ok and when it is not ok to have a device out. 

Phones are a useful tool for the scouts. Scouts can use them to reference scout materials, use them for orienteering, checking maps, etc ... and the great big bonus is that if there is an accident and a scout has a phone they can quickly call for help. It's a tool, we want them to have them, but we need them to have the self control to keep them put away unless truly necessary. 

Parents need to backoff and leave their kids alone. Children need space to grow; boys especially need freedom to be about unsupervised to gain the confidence to function. Helicoptering and electronic leashing children is known to cause anxiety and depression. 

[fred8033]

A few things ...

#1  The "enforcer" role?  ... What are the roles of an adult leader?  Is the adult leader an "enforcer"?  A wise older friend?  An advisor? A safety check?  ... I fear the adult leader as "enforcing" rules as it creates a separation / barrier between the scout and the adult.  It creates a grudge when the phone is taken and an incentive to hide the phone and hide the person from the adult leader.

#2  Consistent expectations ... Will the adult leaders police themselves and secure their phones too?  Key to scout is the example that the adults set.  Scouts mimic the adults.  Scouts quickly see the double standards setup by the adults as hypocrisy.  

 Obviously ... IMHO ... The purpose of scouting is to teach skills, responsibility, etc.  At some point, we meet the scouts where they are instead of dragging them into the past that no longer exists.  Cell phones are part of their world and part of the adult world.
 

Edited 7 hours ago by fred8033

[InquisitiveScouter]

My biggest hurdle on this is dealing with Scouts who use their devices primarily for entertainment.  Gaming, watching youtube, tiktok, snapchat, whatever the flavor of the day is.

When they are doing this, I explain they are disengaging from the activities we are doing, disengaging from their fellow Scouts, and disengaging from their responsibilities in camp. We do ask Scouts to schedule at least an hour per day of "free time" where they can do what they wish, but encourage them to enjoy the outdoors rather than escaping into their devices.

If a Scout uses his device inappropriately, like gaming/texting during an activity or lesson, or having their phone on after lights out, then they get one warning.  Upon the second infraction, we hold their device for safekeeping until the end of the camping trip.  Parents know, understand, and support this policy.

[Double Eagle]

I'm old school, been scouting since the 70s.  But have no problem with scouts having cell phones on any outing.  I think it is our station to teach them when it is appropriate and how to maximize it on outings.  I can't count how many times adults have phones ring in meetings.  The leaf identification, star charts, and ways to connect like snapchat or team reach is invaluable.  My last wood badge staff used snapchat for immediate updates to the schedule.  

1.   I'm NOT in favor of taking possession of anyone's phone/property.   I think an adult with a youth's phone is walking a dangerous line.  If the phone gets lost, damaged, cracked screen, wet, or gets accessed to review photos or messages, that adult is dumb for putting themselves in that position.   

2.  I'm also not in favor of any adult taking my family member's phone or property.  If they want something, grab my gear and carry that.  

3.  HOW ABOUT ALL ADULTS LOSE THEIR PHONES FOR THE WEEKEND AND SCOUTING EVENTS.  NO CHECKING IN, NO SENDING PHOTOS, NO BUSINESS, NO WEATHER CHECKS, NOT AT ALL!  I'm willing to bet there is an adult that can't do it.  How about what Greenbar Bill used to say, Train them, Trust them, Let them lead!!!

[Armymutt]

4 hours ago, Tron said:

I think there are two or three things here. 

The scouts do not need to have their phones out and as adults we have an opportunity to teach the scouts to exercise self control by keeping their phones put away unless truly needed. Taking away and securing the phones as a default behavior makes adult leaders the wardens and conditions the scouts to being told when it is ok and when it is not ok to have a device out. 

Phones are a useful tool for the scouts. Scouts can use them to reference scout materials, use them for orienteering, checking maps, etc ... and the great big bonus is that if there is an accident and a scout has a phone they can quickly call for help. It's a tool, we want them to have them, but we need them to have the self control to keep them put away unless truly necessary. 

Parents need to backoff and leave their kids alone. Children need space to grow; boys especially need freedom to be about unsupervised to gain the confidence to function. Helicoptering and electronic leashing children is known to cause anxiety and depression. 

For us, it's mitigation of an unnecessary liability.  An ideal Scout is trustworthy, but reality is often different.  I've had a Scout close the curtain to his cabin in my face when it's time to clean the shower house and latrine, knowing full well that I can't go into that space and get him out.  We had a parent insist that her son passed the Swimmer test at camp but they didn't record it.  I watched the same kid start drowning after swimming 15 yards on Saturday.  We have an 11 y/o refuse to head back to camp at 10 PM because he couldn't find his $1000 phone.   I don't need parents suing me because Timmy's phone got damaged or lost.  Even if they lose, I'd still have to pay a lawyer for the defense.  I'm unwilling to put myself in the position of being accused of allowing cyber bullying or worse.  One method the Scoutmaster is considering is setting a rule of phones only being allowed for Scouting purposes.  Using it for something else is demonstrating that the Scout is not Trustworthy.  That prevents the Scout from advancing in rank because they aren't living by the Scout law.  I think maybe setting a position requirement is better.  PLs, SPL, and Troop Guides can have phones for access to instructional material and time keeping.  I still think it's a liability.

As far as adults, I also expect them to use their phones only for Scouting needs.  For example, entering requirements in SB because the Scouts keep forgetting to bring their handbooks.  I have no problem with putting my phone away for the weekend and wouldn't mind just leaving it at home.  

The other thing I forgot to mention is that phones present another opportunity for conspicuous displays of wealth that run counter to the values of Scouting.  Scouting is supposed to be open to all kids.  It's hard to feel welcome in an environment where some kids have wealthy enough parents to be a 10 y/o with a smartphone and another with parents who can barely afford to buy a Scout uniform and camping gear.  

Edited 4 hours ago by Armymutt