Executive Board Meetings

[Christi13]

Who is allowed to attend the Executive Board meetings for a council? Not needing to vote but to be able to watch the proceedings. Are Leaders able to request or look at past meeting minutes? How do we request looking at those minutes? Thanks 

[RememberSchiff]

@Christi13 welcome to scouter.com

[mrjohns2]

On 9/21/2022 at 9:59 AM, Christi13 said:

Who is allowed to attend the Executive Board meetings for a council? Not needing to vote but to be able to watch the proceedings. Are Leaders able to request or look at past meeting minutes? How do we request looking at those minutes? Thanks 

That will be a council-by-council thing. Our council does not advertise when these meetings are or where they are. My old council has it on their normal calendar. 

[SiouxRanger]

On 9/21/2022 at 9:59 AM, Christi13 said:

Who is allowed to attend the Executive Board meetings for a council? Not needing to vote but to be able to watch the proceedings. Are Leaders able to request or look at past meeting minutes? How do we request looking at those minutes? Thanks 

My understanding is that Executive Board Meetings and Executive Committee Meetings are generally limited to Board and Committee Members.

In my Council, Executive Board Meetings are generally dinner events.

25+ years ago, Executive Board Meetings in my Council were held monthly, THEN meetings were reduced to quarterly by a change in the Council By-Laws which appeared to be generated by National.  My Council's Executive Board was about 50 to 60.

Why changed, I do not know, BUT, the control of the Council shifted to the Executive Committee, a group of about 6 or 8 who met monthly.  The ONLY limitation on the power and authority of the Executive Committee was that it could not take any action contrary to an Executive Board action.

Of course, the Executive Committee could take any action not already prohibited by the Executive Board, but how is the Executive Board to know what limitations to place on Executive Committee action?  One has to predict what actions the Executive Committee MIGHT take in the future.  It is fairly easy to anticipate adverse future actions in Chess, football, etc., as those games have lots of rules, but how does one anticipate an Executive Board voting to sell a camp, buy a camp, fire the Ranger or Council Executive, sell the Scout Office or buy another...the list is infinite.  I have seen this play out.

Presumably, the Executive Board could act to countermand an Executive Committee action after the fact, but the politics of doing that are huge.

"Hello, you know that the Executive Committee did "X," you know they were selected for that committee because THEY ARE MUCH MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT SCOUTING THAN YOU, (just who do you think you are to question the Imperial Select?  Just make your corporate contribution and shut up) so do you want to risk your job to raise a stink to set this right?"  ("And your "contribution

I DID. 

Most Executive Board Members are prominent members of the local community and not inclined to countermand those that even those powerful people see as more versed in the operations of the Council Board of which they consider themselves as ceremonial members, treated to a dinner 4 times a year for their annual contribution, perhaps paid by their employer which is prestige building.

I know these to be the dynamics of 25 years ago-and I invite those with more current information to chime-in.  It does not appear to me that anything has changed in my Council-but maybe elsewhere.

 

                          (Moderators-the extra space Delators-you know who you are.. are for EMPHASIS.)

 

The only council meeting I know of that MIGHT allow non-members is the Annual Council Meeting which the COR's (Chartered Organization Representatives) are allowed to attend and vote.  I have seen non-anyone, mere scouters attend those meetings.  That could vary widely from Council to Council.

But few of anyone not a member at some level show up.

 

[SiouxRanger]

Just now, SiouxRanger said:

My understanding is that Executive Board Meetings and Executive Committee Meetings are generally limited to Board and Committee Members.

In my Council, Executive Board Meetings are generally dinner events.

25+ years ago, Executive Board Meetings in my Council were held monthly, THEN meetings were reduced to quarterly by a change in the Council By-Laws which appeared to be generated by National.  My Council's Executive Board was about 50 to 60.

Why changed, I do not know, BUT, the control of the Council shifted to the Executive Committee, a group of about 6 or 8 who met monthly.  The ONLY limitation on the power and authority of the Executive Committee was that it could not take any action contrary to an Executive Board action.

Of course, the Executive Committee could take any action not already prohibited by the Executive Board, but how is the Executive Board to know what limitations to place on Executive Committee action?  One has to predict what actions the Executive Committee MIGHT take in the future.  It is fairly easy to anticipate adverse future actions in Chess, football, etc., as those games have lots of rules, but how does one anticipate an Executive Board voting to sell a camp, buy a camp, fire the Ranger or Council Executive, sell the Scout Office or buy another...the list is infinite.  I have seen this play out.

Presumably, the Executive Board could act to countermand an Executive Committee action after the fact, but the politics of doing that are huge.

"Hello, you know that the Executive Committee did "X," you know they were selected for that committee because THEY ARE MUCH MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT SCOUTING THAN YOU, (just who do you think you are to question the Imperial Select?  Just make your corporate contribution and shut up) so do you want to risk your job to raise a stink to set this right?"  ("And your "contribution

I DID. 

Most Executive Board Members are prominent members of the local community and not inclined to countermand those that even those powerful people see as more versed in the operations of the Council Board of which they consider themselves as ceremonial members, treated to a dinner 4 times a year for their annual contribution, perhaps paid by their employer which is prestige building.

I know these to be the dynamics of 25 years ago-and I invite those with more current information to chime-in.  It does not appear to me that anything has changed in my Council-but maybe elsewhere.

 

                          (Moderators-the extra space Delators-you know who you are.. are for EMPHASIS.)

 

The only council meeting I know of that MIGHT allow non-members is the Annual Council Meeting which the COR's (Chartered Organization Representatives) are allowed to attend and vote.  I have seen non-anyone, mere scouters attend those meetings.  That could vary widely from Council to Council.

But few of anyone not a member at some level show up.

And so the Council management and leadership is managed and controlled by about 8 people.  And it appears to me that ALL the volunteers defer to the Column Executive who is drawing a salary of $250,000 to $350,000.

Obscene.

 

 

 

[Mrjeff]

Unless there was a recent change the CORs are members of the Executive Board.  As the OA Lodge Advisor I am also a member as is our Lodge Chief.  Our board is welcoming, receptive to suggestions, and just a good bunch of guys.  They also treat our Chief as an equal and are receptive of his ideas.  I consider myself fortunate and blessed to belong to such a fine group of ladies and gentlemen.  I would say that if anyone outside of the board has an issue or concern they could contact our CE or a board member and would be welcome as a guest.

[mrjohns2]

18 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

Unless there was a recent change the CORs are members of the Executive Board. 

I have never seen that as a standard. District committee? Yes. 

[Mrjeff]

I'm talking about Council Executive Board. Until the reorganization the COR were members of the board mutual most don't know that, if its still that way?

[SSScout]

Search "Owassippee "  on this site for a distinctly interesting history of CO involvement with the Council Exec Board.... 

[Cburkhardt]

Council Executive Boards and Council Executive Committees (subcommittees of the Executive Board consisting of the principal officers) meet in private with members only, plus special guests who make presentations on pending topics.  CORs belong to the Council, which meets to elect the Executive Board during the annual business meetings.

Including numbers of non-members in Executive Board or Executive Committee meetings is disfavored due to confidentiality issues.  Non-members attending would not be bound to confidentiality and would further expect to express viewpoints and arguments.  Well-run boards develop effective ways to gather opinion from the CORs and other stakeholders and respect those opinions.

The “Owasippe” incident is a good example of when a board did not adequately solicit and take into account the views of its constituency when dealing with property matters – in this case the attempted sale of a huge property with minimal notice.  The story is immensely complex and would take hours of blogging to explain.  The bottom line is that the attempted sale was blocked through litigation and zoning moves which greatly reduced the desirability of the property to potential purchasers.  Another bottom line is that the inadvisable board moves caused years of deformed relations among council volunteers, professionals and supporters.  It can be said that bitter feelings created during the incident was a contributing factor in the overall downturn of the Chicago Area Council, which eventually lost its national charter and was merged with three other councils into the Chicagoland  "Pathway to Adventure Council".  

Interestingly, Owasippe Scout Reservation is now in the best physical, program and financial shape it has been in for decades.  As the bankruptcy causes the sell-off of many other properties, this massive and well-run operation is easily absorbing the demand of Troops from across the Midwest.   

[Eagle94-A1]

According to this https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/511-421(16)_WEB.pdf  CORs "Represent your organization on the council and district levels."

 

According to this: https://troopleader.scouting.org/chartered-organization-representative/

 

"The chartered organization representative may become a member of the district committee and is a voting member of the council."

 

Sounds like they are on the council board to me.

[mrjohns2]

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Sounds like they are on the council board to me.

It may sound that way, but is definitely not. A voting member of the council is one who votes for the board member slate of candidates, not a member of the board. Time to time the council voting members have to vote to sell a camp or something that the board wants to put “to the people”.  

[Mrjeff]

Actually its  up to the Council at this point. 

[mrjohns2]

3 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

Actually its  up to the Council at this point. 

I guess so? All adults in the council could be on the board of the council wanted.

[Christi13]

18 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

Council Executive Boards and Council Executive Committees (subcommittees of the Executive Board consisting of the principal officers) meet in private with members only, plus special guests who make presentations on pending topics.  CORs belong to the Council, which meets to elect the Executive Board during the annual business meetings.

Including numbers of non-members in Executive Board or Executive Committee meetings is disfavored due to confidentiality issues.  Non-members attending would not be bound to confidentiality and would further expect to express viewpoints and arguments.  Well-run boards develop effective ways to gather opinion from the CORs and other stakeholders and respect those opinions.

The “Owasippe” incident is a good example of when a board did not adequately solicit and take into account the views of its constituency when dealing with property matters – in this case the attempted sale of a huge property with minimal notice.  The story is immensely complex and would take hours of blogging to explain.  The bottom line is that the attempted sale was blocked through litigation and zoning moves which greatly reduced the desirability of the property to potential purchasers.  Another bottom line is that the inadvisable board moves caused years of deformed relations among council volunteers, professionals and supporters.  It can be said that bitter feelings created during the incident was a contributing factor in the overall downturn of the Chicago Area Council, which eventually lost its national charter and was merged with three other councils into the Chicagoland  "Pathway to Adventure Council".  

Interestingly, Owasippe Scout Reservation is now in the best physical, program and financial shape it has been in for decades.  As the bankruptcy causes the sell-off of many other properties, this massive and well-run operation is easily absorbing the demand of Troops from across the Midwest.   

This sounds eerily like the rumors that are going around my council right now.  That whole situation is what I've heard from other volunteers. We love our camp but don't trust the Scout Executive.