Troop change to Catholic Youth Ministry

[TGB]

My son's pack and troop had always been welcoming to ALL including me as committee person. Like many troops sponsored by a Catholic church it has recently become a Catholic Youth Ministry. We are not Catholic. The new rules from national committee on catholic scouting and those of the local archdiocese are openly discriminatory. I have been removed from the troop committee but my son is allowed to stay. It has been suggested that we find another troop but no other troop locally is viable. I hate to see my son leave scouting and he is upset about the notion of not being with friends. The future of the troop and how far the new rules will be enforced is apparently up to the parish priest. I'm not so much looking for debate but asking if others have run into this same issue. 

[MattR]

Welcome to the forum, @TGB.

[mrjohns2]

1 hour ago, TGB said:

Like many troops sponsored by a Catholic church it has recently become a Catholic Youth Ministry. We are not Catholic. The new rules from national committee on catholic scouting and those of the local archdiocese are openly discriminatory. I have been removed from the troop committee but my son is allowed to stay.

Wow! Oh no. I have not heard this sad direction. Can you point to some of the national literature on this? I guess they are allowed to vet the adults, but this seems to be wrong headed and crushing. 

[CynicalScouter]

1 hour ago, TGB said:

I'm not so much looking for debate but asking if others have run into this same issue. 

My pack was chartered out of our local parish and I am Catholic. We had people of other faiths in the unit.

In short, as you said, enforcement is entirely in the hands of the parish priest (as Institutional Head, Chartered Organization Rep, or both).

The BSA leaves it entirely in the hands of the IH or COR to determine who will be an adult leader in their units. If they opt not to allow you, there is nothing really much you can do.

Why, exactly, were you removed and by who/whom?

[CynicalScouter]

18 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Can you point to some of the national literature on this?

Units chartered by a Catholic entity may not have adult leaders who are engaged in activities directly contradictory to Church teaching. By becoming a troop/pack leader, you are becoming a parish leader. This means, for example, having to also take the Church's child protection training IN ADDITION TO YPT by BSA. It also means that, for example and not saying this is what is going on with OP, the person may not be openly and flagrantly violating Church teachings. Even though BSA may allow openly homosexual leaders, for example, Catholic units will not.

https://www.nccs-bsa.org/index.php/membership-standards

10. Do the BSA's adult leadership standards mean religious chartered organizations will not be able to adhere to their beliefs? Will a church with ties to the BSA lose the ability to teach biblical principles of sexual morality to its Scouts and to require them to adhere to those principles? Will the Scouting program of a religious chartered organization teach sexual values and beliefs completely inconsistent with the religious organization? Will churches or other religious organizations be censored from teaching Bible-based standards for sexual morality to youth in a Scouting unit?

No. The BSA resolution affirms the right of each chartered organization to reach its own religious and moral conclusions about sexual relations between adults. Chartered organizations continue to have the right and responsibility to choose their own unit leaders according to their own values and Scouting values. The BSA reaffirmed that no Scouting unit may deny a youth membership in the BSA on the basis of sexual orientation or preference. But each chartered organization may adhere to its beliefs and teachings in the selection of its own unit leadership and volunteers and may use Scouting as part of its youth ministry.

Edited June 17, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[CynicalScouter]

See also Guide to Catholic Scouting https://www.nccs-bsa.org/index.php/guide-to-catholic-scouting

Pastoral Rights to Choose Membership, Leaders, and Program Elements

Chartered organizations continue to have the right and responsibility to choose their own unit leaders according to their own values and Scouting values. The BSA reaffirmed that no Scouting unit may deny a youth membership in the BSA on the basis of sexual orientation or preference. But each chartered organization may adhere to its beliefs and teachings in the selection of its own unit leadership and volunteers and may use Scouting as part of its youth ministry.In the Charter Agreement, signed annually by the Institution Head (e.g., Pastor), a Catholic organization obligates to use the program(s) of the BSA to further its mission respecting the youth it supports.

The Charter also reserves the right of the Institution Head, by signature authority, to have full control over youth and adult membership requirements and unit program activity (e.g., meeting content and participation in external events). The Institution Head (e.g., Pastor)should only approve a program his institution can support.

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by CynicalScouter

[mrjohns2]

I can “flow” with the the policies listed above. Unless the OP has done something recently that made big waves, I would feel that putting one’s foot down out of the blue (even if new President or priest of the parish) is unkind and heartless. Organizations I have been a part of may say “in the future, we will do it differently”. Again, maybe they could, but should they, after already agreeing that they were ok? Again, maybe there is more to it that caused them to put their foot down. It may not even be clear to the OP of who said what behind closed doors. In any event, it sucks. 

[Eagle94-A1]

@TGB

1. WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!

2. BSA has always allowed charter orgs to select their own leadership. While many, if not most, did not do anything but sign paperwork and provide meeting space, some have taken ownership. You will probably see a lot more COs take ownership due to the BSA's bankruptcy and lawsuit. COs may not be covered by the bankruptcy settlement, despite BSA's promises in the past.

3. I bet it felt like sucker punch to the gut getting told you are no longer allowed to be a volunteer. A troop I was in needed a new Scoutmaster (SM) because the current one had major health issues. The Charter Organization (CO) had a policy that the SM must be a member of the congregation. I was not of that faith, knew the policy, but told the SM I would be willing to take over if approved. He was all for it, but told me he did not think it would go past the Charter Org. Representative (COR).

I had a meeting with the COR, and I was turned down. It hurt, despite knowing it was a long shot.I stuck around and continued as an ASM until other issues caused my family to leave. 

4. Whatever you decide, good luck.

[mrjohns2]

Another question - was this done at recharter or out of the blue? 

15 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

BSA has always allowed charter orgs to select their own leadership.

Yeah, but de-select out of the blue is out of the normal. 

[David CO]

6 hours ago, TGB said:

Like many troops sponsored by a Catholic church it has recently become a Catholic Youth Ministry. We are not Catholic. The new rules from national committee on catholic scouting and those of the local archdiocese are openly discriminatory. I have been removed from the troop committee but my son is allowed to stay. 

I am not aware of any new rules that would prohibit a non-Catholic from serving on a unit committee.

[David CO]

6 hours ago, TGB said:

I have been removed from the troop committee but my son is allowed to stay. It has been suggested that we find another troop but no other troop locally is viable. I hate to see my son leave scouting and he is upset about the notion of not being with friends. 

There is a very simple solution.  He stays.  You go.

[David CO]

7 hours ago, TGB said:

I'm not so much looking for debate but asking if others have run into this same issue. 

Yes.  I have run into this many times in both scouting and sports.  A boy feels he needs to quit an activity that he very much enjoys in order to show solidarity and support for his parent, who is no longer welcome.  It happens a lot.  

[qwazse]

The local CO has just given you a free pass to lean in to other things that you are passionate about.
You can still be a loyal scout parent. Keep up that YP training. Train others on doing your job. Give them chocolates and flowers regularly because they stepped up.

Your spouse will find something to do with that time you’re not in a committee meeting.

If scouting is now your thing and you just gotta kick in that “1 hour”, contact your district commissioner, and see how you can volunteer there.

Otherwise, there are refugees, immigrants, and homeless who could use a friend for an hour.

Edited June 18, 2021 by qwazse

[TGB]

Without reading the rules from the National Catholic Committee on Scouting in April 2020 it's impossible to fully understand what is going on. It states from the beginning that this is a stand against secularism. Catholic teachings are to be incorporated into the scout program and scout leaders are trained as catholic youth ministers, and that's just for starters. In our general area some priest are simply choosing not to sponsor scouting any more, others are enforcing the rules, others for the time being are leaving things as is. At some point it's not even scouting anymore. It's all just a shame and the kids are the ones hurt. 

This is connected to Scouting's bankruptcy and the church's own legal troubles. The rules state that they can't do this to the Girl Scouts. I can certainly understand any sponsor's concern with liability, but in the end the adults should be more concerned about the kid's and less about pushing some other objective. 

I'm am and was a fairly quiet, main stream protestant, merit badge councilor, concerned dad, who as a committee person simply wanted to contribute for all the scouts. I understand the perish has the right but that doesn't make it right. 

[mrjohns2]

For me, especially retroactive. I could see them saying “from here on out, this is the vision”.