Eagle brand value

[HICO_Eagle]

On 3/12/2021 at 6:31 PM, MattR said:

Besides, I think the eagle brand is taking a huge hit - what's it going to be worth if you're afraid to bring it up?

IMO, the Eagle brand took a huge hit a long time ago for a variety of reasons.  PC culture in elite colleges appeared to be using it as a strike against instead of for the applicants.  Standards seemed to be lowered in merit badges, projects, etc. in order to increase the success rate.

I personally would still be inclined to give an Eagle Scout the chance to prove him/herself to me even with otherwise marginal qualifications but that's just me and it's honestly a bit of sentiment.

Outside forces have been attacking and attempting to dismember Scouting for their own reasons but I felt like National was diminishing the program for many years.

[ThenNow]

8 minutes ago, HICO_Eagle said:

I felt like National was diminishing the program for many years.

This is off topic, but perhaps someone would give me a brief recap. I received my Eagle in 1975. It was not easy and there weren't many of us, or so it seemed. In the past 15+ (?) years has there been an escalation of "win the prize" orientation, driven by Units and parents? I had no particular push or encouragement from my parents, though our SM was keen to have his "first Eagle." As I said back there somewhere, it seems like it's become part of the, "Thou shalt build the college resume at all cost!" culture to me. I both understand and marginally despise it.

[Eagle1993]

7 minutes ago, HICO_Eagle said:

IMO, the Eagle brand took a huge hit a long time ago for a variety of reasons.  PC culture in elite colleges appeared to be using it as a strike against instead of for the applicants.  Standards seemed to be lowered in merit badges, projects, etc. in order to increase the success rate.

I personally would still be inclined to give an Eagle Scout the chance to prove him/herself to me even with otherwise marginal qualifications but that's just me and it's honestly a bit of sentiment.

Outside forces have been attacking and attempting to dismember Scouting for their own reasons but I felt like National was diminishing the program for many years.

One my my ASMs is an interviewer for an elite college (top 5 school for business, journalism, etc.) top 10 overall.  Eagle Scout is a benefit on applications.  How much of a benefit probably depends on who interviews you.  I went to a state school, but apparently, elite colleges have one of their alumni interview you and they then tell the college what they think.   I have never heard or seen any evidence it is a strike against applicants.

[MisterH]

12 minutes ago, HICO_Eagle said:

IMO, the Eagle brand took a huge hit a long time ago for a variety of reasons.  PC culture in elite colleges appeared to be using it as a strike against instead of for the applicants.  Standards seemed to be lowered in merit badges, projects, etc. in order to increase the success rate.

I've spent enough time interacting with academia over the past 20 years to notice this, too. IMO most colleges view "Eagle Scout" as just another civic-oriented extra-curricular activity, but I've met more than a few professors who dismissed the Boy Scouts as "a right-wing, paramilitary hate group", particularly prior to 2014 when the BSA started lifting their official bans on homosexuality.

[David CO]

19 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

This is off topic, but 

Not entirely.  It is relevant to the extent that some people feel that the "eagle brand" might have some marketable value that could be calculated in the settlement.  I disagree.  Separated from scouting, the eagle rank isn't worth a plug nickel.

The eagle is already used as a symbol or logo for many businesses and clubs.  I can't imagine that anyone would pay to use it when they can already use it for free.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by David CO

[Eagle1993]

7 minutes ago, MisterH said:

Boy Scouts as "a right-wing, paramilitary hate group", particularly prior to 2014 when the BSA started lifting their official bans on homosexuality.

I have a ASM who interviews for a top 10 school and talks with the interviewers from Harvard, Yale, etc.  Eagle Scout is a BENEFIT.  He is nudging his sons to get there as well.  It can vary how much of a benefit based on the interviewer, but it is a benefit. 

Yes ... BSA organization was not looked on well by higher education when it excluded gay scouts, but for the most part that didn't tarnish the Eagle Scout rank.  Internally we may question age or rigor but externally that is not questioned nearly as much as we may think.

Trying to get this back to bankruptcy a bit ... it is a very valued asset.  There are articles even today as Girl Scouts have yet to amplify their Gold award in the same way BSA has its Eagle.  In terms of value ... how much would a GSUSA or even TrailLife pay for the Eagle Scout trademark?

[ThenNow]

7 minutes ago, David CO said:

Not entirely.  It is relevant to the extent that some people feel that the "eagle brand" might have some marketable value that could be calculated in the settlement.  I disagree.  Separated from scouting, the eagle rank isn't worth a plug nickel.

The eagle is already used as a symbol or logo for many businesses and clubs.  I can't imagine that anyone would pay to use it when they can already use it for free.

Say what? Is that for me? (I won't say anything about pithy retorts or raisin torts or animated shorts or full-bodied ports.)

[yknot]

15 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

One my my ASMs is an interviewer for an elite college (top 5 school for business, journalism, etc.) top 10 overall.  Eagle Scout is a benefit on applications.  How much of a benefit probably depends on who interviews you.  I went to a state school, but apparently, elite colleges have one of their alumni interview you and they then tell the college what they think.   I have never heard or seen any evidence it is a strike against applicants.

I think it depends on the school. 

 

2 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have a ASM who interviews for a top 10 school and talks with the interviewers from Harvard, Yale, etc.  Eagle Scout is a BENEFIT.  He is nudging his sons to get there as well.  It can vary how much of a benefit based on the interviewer, but it is a benefit. 

Yes ... BSA organization was not looked on well by higher education when it excluded gay scouts, but for the most part that didn't tarnish the Eagle Scout rank.  Internally we may question age or rigor but externally that is not questioned nearly as much as we may think.

Trying to get this back to bankruptcy a bit ... it is a very valued asset.  There are articles even today as Girl Scouts have yet to amplify their Gold award in the same way BSA has its Eagle.  In terms of value ... how much would a GSUSA or even TrailLife pay for the Eagle Scout trademark?

I'm not so sure.  BSA is largely viewed as a white, male enclave. I knew an Eagle Scout who was challenged in an interview when he tried to counter that. He did not get into that school. Maybe some of the Ivy League schools are still traditional enough that it would count but get out among second tier and state schools and it might be a different story. 

[qwazse]

18 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

... In terms of value ... how much would a GSUSA or even TrailLife pay for the Eagle Scout trademark?

I don't think GS/USA would be interested. They seem like big numbers to us, but in comparison to GS/USA's membership, a tiny fraction are trying to earn Eagle to the exclusion of Gold. I also can't see any Trailmen wishing to rebrand their Freedom award (which demands a couple of competencies that Eagle does not).

It's hard to see how any youth organization would like to purchase rights to use that name in their program.

However, I can see some value to someone who holds trademarks as royalties. Any artist who uses "Eagle scout" in their work could be sent a cease-and-desist letter unless they paid the royalty.

I'm not sure any one would place a bid on that sort of thing in any timely fashion.

[Eagle1993]

1 minute ago, qwazse said:

I'm not sure any one would place a bid on that sort of thing in any timely fashion.

I tend to agree.  The only value I see is that the trademark owner could charge BSA a fee to keep using Eagle Scout rank going forward.  BSA knows Eagle Scout pulls in some recruits.  Perhaps its paid by charging a fee when submitting an Eagle Scout application.  Every ES app is charged $50 which goes to the trademark owner.  That could be a $1M per year annuity.    You might be able to get something assuming BSA survives and there is a 20 year agreement to use Eagle Scout as the top rank.

Assuming a 5% rate of return and $1M of annual payment going forward and a 20 year agreement, the Eagle Scout Rank would be worth about $13M today.  Again ... its only valuable if the BSA survives.  

If that rank transfers as an award for another organization, I think the value drops a ton as it won't be seen in the same light.

 

[HICO_Eagle]

58 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have a ASM who interviews for a top 10 school and talks with the interviewers from Harvard, Yale, etc.  Eagle Scout is a BENEFIT.  He is nudging his sons to get there as well.  It can vary how much of a benefit based on the interviewer, but it is a benefit.

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

One my my ASMs is an interviewer for an elite college (top 5 school for business, journalism, etc.) top 10 overall.  Eagle Scout is a benefit on applications.  How much of a benefit probably depends on who interviews you.  I went to a state school, but apparently, elite colleges have one of their alumni interview you and they then tell the college what they think.   I have never heard or seen any evidence it is a strike against applicants.

 

58 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have a ASM who interviews for a top 10 school and talks with the interviewers from Harvard, Yale, etc.  Eagle Scout is a BENEFIT.  He is nudging his sons to get there as well.  It can vary how much of a benefit based on the interviewer, but it is a benefit.

 

1 hour ago, MisterH said:

I've spent enough time interacting with academia over the past 20 years to notice this, too. IMO most colleges view "Eagle Scout" as just another civic-oriented extra-curricular activity, but I've met more than a few professors who dismissed the Boy Scouts as "a right-wing, paramilitary hate group", particularly prior to 2014 when the BSA started lifting their official bans on homosexuality.

 

I was an interviewer for an Ivy League university.  From listening to the PC speak from the Admissions Office (not just professors who aren't part of the admissions process) to looking at the matriculation rate of applicants I interviewed, I'm pretty confident that Eagle rank is no longer a benefit and may in fact be a detriment in applying to these self-ascribed elite universities.  It's one of the reasons I quit being an alumni interviewer.

[Eagle1993]

2 minutes ago, HICO_Eagle said:

I was an interviewer for an Ivy League university.  From listening to the PC speak from the Admissions Office (not just professors who aren't part of the admissions process) to looking at the matriculation rate of applicants I interviewed, I'm pretty confident that Eagle rank is no longer a benefit and may in fact be a detriment in applying to these self-ascribed elite universities.  It's one of the reasons I quit being an alumni interviewer.

When did you quit?  I'm talking now, not 2014 and prior.  I would agree that during Dale it probably got rough.

My ASM was clear when we discussed this recently .. it helps.  He has talked with Harvard, Yale interviewers ... it helps.  Notre Dame ... helps.  We have had Eagle Scouts do well at Ivy through mid tier colleges.  We have examples.  That said, it won't help if you can't answer questions.  He has said it show perseverance and achievement of a goal. 

I think parents make the mistake thinking their son/daughter just needs to get Eagle Scout on the resume and they're golden.  If they go to an Eagle mill, I don't see the benefit.  (Yeah, its on the resume, but did they really learn anything?) Now, if while earning Eagle, your son/daughter got over a fear, learned new skills, took on a role they wouldn't have been comfortable with, lead a team, failed, succeeded, etc. ... that is the real value.  Then they  take that value and explain it during an interview and its a winner.  The rank on the app is really just a minor part of the story .. the value is what they did to earn that rank.

[HICO_Eagle]

5 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

When did you quit?  I'm talking now, not 2014 and prior.  I would agree that during Dale it probably got rough.

My ASM was clear when we discussed this recently .. it helps.  He has talked with Harvard, Yale interviewers ... it helps.  Notre Dame ... helps.  We have had Eagle Scouts do well at Ivy through mid tier colleges.  We have examples.  That said, it won't help if you can't answer questions.  He has said it show perseverance and achievement of a goal. 

I think parents make the mistake thinking their son/daughter just needs to get Eagle Scout on the resume and they're golden.  If they go to an Eagle mill, I don't see the benefit.  (Yeah, its on the resume, but did they really learn anything?) Now, if while earning Eagle, your son/daughter got over a fear, learned new skills, took on a role they wouldn't have been comfortable with, lead a team, failed, succeeded, etc. ... that is the real value.  Then they  take that value and explain it during an interview and its a winner.  The rank on the app is really just a minor part of the story .. the value is what they did to earn that rank.

I resigned from the Alumni Interview program in 2018, maybe 2017, due to increasingly regressive "woke" statements from the university in general and the Admissions Office in particular.  I didn't just talk with interviewers, I was an interviewer and listened to the Admissions Office and looked at the matriculation rates of the applicants I personally interviewed.

If youth are looking at the program as I did, as a path to gaining experiences, skills, and self-confidence, they should by all means continue with it or whatever program succeeds it.  My point is that the value of the Eagle brand has -- in my experience -- diminished with elite universities and corporations.

[ThenNow]

1 minute ago, HICO_Eagle said:

My point is that the value of the Eagle brand has -- in my experience -- diminished with elite universities and corporations.

Just for gee whiz, I was selecting between two schools of note. One highly valued Eagle. The other, even decades ago, quite the opposite. I had to steer around it with the second one. First was a private school, the second a state school. 

[SilverPalm]

2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

This is off topic, but perhaps someone would give me a brief recap. I received my Eagle in 1975. It was not easy and there weren't many of us, or so it seemed. In the past 15+ (?) years has there been an escalation of "win the prize" orientation, driven by Units and parents? I had no particular push or encouragement from my parents, though our SM was keen to have his "first Eagle." As I said back there somewhere, it seems like it's become part of the, "Thou shalt build the college resume at all cost!" culture to me. I both understand and marginally despise it.

I earned my Eagle Scout in 2008, and I do get the impression now that the trail has been broadened somewhat from what it once was.  That's not to say it's easier, per se - it's more that I think there were more resources in place when I went through the program than there probably were in the 1970s.  More adults had a better understanding of the advancement process, I think - and that made the trail a little easier to follow.

It's not as though the requirements are all that different today then they were then.  I still had to do nearly all of the same stuff as would have been required in the 1930s or the 1970s (Eagle Required MBs aside).  But it was possible to go up to summer camp and earn 4 merit badges in a week if you went to camp prepared, and I'm not sure that would have been the case for Scouts in previous generations.   

I do think that a lot of one's Scouting career is dictated by the quality of one's leadership.  I had this same Scoutmaster try to bar my advancement to Life Scout because I accidentally hit a Scout leader with a snowball as she opened a door to leave a Scouting event.  (I was aiming at a buddy, he moved, the door opened, and I wasn't exactly an MLB pitcher accuracy-wise). Despite repeated apologies, this incident was deemed by some to be worth preventing me from advancing further in the program - until other Scout leaders refused to put up with it any longer and scheduled my BOR.

So was the program different when I went through it?  Certainly.  Was it easier?  Yes and no - but I encountered some really poor-quality leaders during my time in the Scouts, even if they weren't actually dangerous to the Youth.  I learned different lessons from those intended by the program as a result, lessons which made me a lot surer how to handle difficult personalities in the future.  I consider those lessons valuable - but they're not part of the program, and I probably shouldn't have had to learn them the way I did.

As far as pushing Eagle... no one really pushed me, but this bully Scoutmaster's kid's patrol all seemed to earn merit badges at the same time, and they all seemed to hit First Class at the same time too...