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Interesting changes.  Much looks cosmetic.  

  • Nice that it opens in a web browser instead of requiring download immediately.  
  • Nice larger areas for writing
  • Great that they added a "Contingency" block in the PLAN section.  :) 
  • Why won't text areas expand?  In the previous version, I believe the text blocks would grow.
  • Page G.  Why full text justification in the signature block.  Looks klunky.  Should be left justification.  Minor issue.
  • Numeric columns don't add up.  I thought they did before.  
  • Can't add more rows to tables.   :(

Glad to see an upgrade.  Now to learn the improvements.  

 

Edited by fred8033
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1 hour ago, mashmaster said:

For Scouts that are mid-project, they continue with the old workbook.  Is that correct?

Check with your Council Advancement Chair/Professional Adviser. I understood the message as mandatory for all, effective immediately. 
 

if you get a policy answer, post it, so I can change the OP. 

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In the past, the workbook that had all the approval signatures in it was the one that needed to be used, even if changed. HOWEVER if all three approval signatures are not in it, the new workbook needs to be used.

For example Life Scout Louis begins the process, gets all the approval signatures, and completes the project using Workbook A. When the EBOR occurs, Workbook C is in effect. But since all the approval signatures are in Workbook A, and the  project was completed while Workbook A was in effect, it is valid. 

Life Scout Laura starts of her project process using Workbook B. She has completed all the paperwork, and has gotten her SM's Signature. BUT Workbook C come out. Now Laura has to cut and paste everything into the new workbook, have the SM sign the new workbook, and get the rest of the signature in the new work book.

Again that is the directions I have had for  as along as I have been an adult. BUT "always in motion, the future is." So check with your council advancement folks.

 

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Just spoke with our District Advancement guy...

It's news to him...no announcements through any Advancement channels, and he is well-plugged-in.

He is digesting the new form now.

His position is, until National or council makes a formal announcement, continue to use the older workbook if you have started with that.

Also, since our workbooks do not leave the district, if a Scout has already started with the older version, they may continue with it, unless there is a strict policy prohibition issued. 

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I will call our district advancement chair to confirm.  

Our scout (my Son) has already started the project and has the signatures in the old workbook.  Until directed, I will have him continue in his old workbook.

Now, if the project of the century ever gets completed it will be a 2021 miracle.....  He wants to get it done before he needs another classroom merit badge.

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4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Also, since our workbooks do not leave the district, if a Scout has already started with the older version, they may continue with it, unless there is a strict policy prohibition issued. 

That's pretty much our council's approach too.  We want the scout to use the latest version, but we also want them to keep moving forward.  So if they have a signed off proposal with an old template, we'd say use the latest for the PLAN and REPORT.  The key is we don't make them regenerate it for the sake of being current.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I am the volunteer author of the new PDF Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook (now 2021c).  I was asked by BSA National to convert the old Adobe LiveCycle document to a "pure PDF" form.  The BSA's license to Adobe LiveCycle has expired, and LiveCycle is at end of life.  As you probably know, if you didn't use the Adobe brand PDF tools the form would not work.  This was an issue for Mac users, but there is a rapidly expanding base of Scouts using alternate platforms like ChromeBooks, and the form did not work.

In moving to "pure PDF" we do lose some functionality like expanding text boxes and lists, as someone pointed out above.  With the new form, it is intended that the Scout will add additional pages for longer text or photos, plans, etc. It is tricky to have a PDF form which works well on all platforms; I find that something works in Adobe Acrobat, does not work in Chrome, works in Apple Preview but not Adobe Acrobat on Macs, etc.  Adding digital signatures to a PDF document will also lock its contents, so Scouts and advisors need to be careful about that.

Until last Friday, there were NO changes to the content of the form.  All the questions were exactly the same (except we corrected the grammar in two questions).  In the latest form we changed something on Project Report Page B - the Eagle candidate now has two lines for their hours; one for planning and one for execution.  This will help Scouts realize that they need to list their PLANNING hours, which is apparently something like half the candidates failed to do.  The only other substantive change was the welcome message from the Chief Scout was removed.

Since the content of the workbook is exactly the same as the previous workbook (except for the new hours line), I don't have an opinion (nor would my opinion carry any weight) about when you should start requiring the new workbook.  In my Troop or District I certainly wouldn't make any Scout past the proposal stage use the new book.  Any web pages which indicate the workbook should be a link to the scouting.org page which will always have the latest version.  

https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/advancement-and-awards/eagle-scout-workbook/

Finally, starting with last week's version, there is now a change tracking page at the end of the workbook which lists the changes included with each version.  As this is a new document a few issues have been found and fixed.  Some issues are things we just didn't think of (like the Transatlantic Council needing to put international-format phone numbers in the phone number boxes which were formatted for US phone numbers), others are minor fixes (like a couple page references in some text).

I'm happy to address any concerns.  I'm not authorized to make any additions or changes to the content of the workbook, but happy to fix any errors you find.  

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@Melga ... Kudos to you !

  • First big positive ... I absolutely love hearing a volunteer produced the document.  I wish more BSA documents were produced by volunteer oversight committees.   I realize you did not have significant input, but it's still a big plus.
  • Thanks for the detailed explanation. 
  • Working on more platforms is a big improvement as many, many scouts have trouble with the workbook.  
Edited by fred8033
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I am happy it is moving to a pure PDF.  The current document has caused us numerous headaches trying to use them.  

While you are at it, do you have input on the Quartermaster project workbook?  That PDF has sections for pictures but you can't add pictures into those sections.

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1 hour ago, mashmaster said:

I am happy it is moving to a pure PDF.  The current document has caused us numerous headaches trying to use them.  

While you are at it, do you have input on the Quartermaster project workbook?  That PDF has sections for pictures but you can't add pictures into those sections.

I am part of a Sea Scout unit so I'm aware of the Quartermaster Project Workbook.  Once the Eagle workbook has stabilized maybe I'll ask my BSA contact about that.  Thanks.

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@Melgamatic, thanks for taking on a thankless job. More importantly, thanks for explaining "real world" implications for the changes. It's very helpful to have an explanation when scouters ask.

I personally believe that a scout's proposal/report should sit apart from the workbook. (I've promoted plain-old-ASCII in other threads.) But, as long as we're in a world where form exceeds substance, adding pages will do.

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5 hours ago, Melgamatic said:

I am part of a Sea Scout unit so I'm aware of the Quartermaster Project Workbook.  Once the Eagle workbook has stabilized maybe I'll ask my BSA contact about that.  Thanks.

Thank you!

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