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Hawkwin

SM Conference for higher ranks ONLY on campouts?

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5 hours ago, Chris1 said:

Adults that Run troops as their personal fiefdom do not like it when lowly peasants win. And they tend to lash out with whatever influenced they have.

This is all too common and widespread in scouting. I too have been through this myself. 

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Things, when decided by a committee, move at a glacial pace. Your expectation that you would get a reply via Email within four days is unrealistic. Unless it's my brothers wanting to identify a snake, I take at least a week to reply to any given letter. :happy:

From my perspective, this decision shouldn't involve the CC at all. The SM/ASMs should have a huddle and decide how to deliver the promise of scouting through the advancement method. The best the CC can do is run interference, encourage that huddle and support the leaders in whatever decision they make.

That said, the CC should have simply told you that he was gathering facts and putting it on the agenda for the next committee meeting.

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1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Things, when decided by a committee, move at a glacial pace. Your expectation that you would get a reply via Email within four days is unrealistic. Unless it's my brothers wanting to identify a snake, I take at least a week to reply to any given letter. :happy:

From my perspective, this decision shouldn't involve the CC at all. The SM/ASMs should have a huddle and decide how to deliver the promise of scouting through the advancement method. The best the CC can do is run interference, encourage that huddle and support the leaders in whatever decision they make.

That said, the CC should have simply told you that he was gathering facts and putting it on the agenda for the next committee meeting.

Well... That's one opinion. The Scoutmaster is in charge of the program, and the committee is in charge of the policy and the business end of troop operations. So in a case where there is a policy that does not conform to BSA advancement policy it is the place of the CC to act.

Personally I would never take a week to get back to someone on this type of topic, unless I was in a coma or at a camp with no signal. It may just be "I am looking in to this" or "I will talk to the SM on this matter"  but it will be something. So we just have different communication styles.  

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Four days is plenty to respond with:

"Thank you for bringing your concern to our attention. I will put this topic on our agenda as new business for our next committee meeting on (date/time/location). As always parents are welcome and invited to attend our commitee meetings. I hope to see you there."

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16 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

Thanks, the dynamics of all this are so foreign to me. I expected that the SM served at the discretion of the committee. I've since learned (through a bit of research) that the COR appoints the SM so all this time I spent trying to get the CC on board has been somewhat wasted. I wonder if should have started this process with the COR Rep instead. The COR Rep was copied on the SMs reply.

 

I think it's a good thing that you included the Committee Chair, because the Troop Committee is in charge of making policy for the troop.  However, troop policy cannot conflict with BSA policy.  And the troop "belongs" to the Charter Organization, which can have its own policies that the troop has to follow.

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16 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

Here is how I started my reply to the SM:  ... If a Scout is unable to attend and wants it done at his convenience that is another story.  ...

I swear I've seen this repeatedly.  The volunteer adult leader has lost the perspective of being there to help the scout succeed.  They want to box the scout in to help the adult leader succeed with the adult's objective.  IMHO, it's off base and the wrong frame of mind.

Simply put ... if a scout asks, our role should be to help them succeed.  There is zero direct connection between camp outs and scoutmaster conferences.  There is no direct way it benefits the scout or helps the scout or enables the scout when scoutmaster conferences are only done on camp outs.  The only tenable result is that advancement is delayed and arbitrary additional obstacles are put in the scout's path by the adult volunteer.  Simply put, that's NOT our job.  It's the wrong frame of mind and it's a poor example to set for our scouts.  If an adult volunteer can't see that, then they should not be an adult volunteer.  

The frame of mind I try to take is to work as a volunteer such that the scout succeeds or fails because of themselves; ... not because of me.  If they need to meet or talk, I'll do anything I can to be flexible to make that happen.  They still have to call, to ask, to show up, to complete requirements and to drive their own advancement.  But it's their working against themselves and not to overcome an obstacle I've put in their path.  

...

But even though it's wrong, find a way to overcome this obstacle.  All through life your son will run into people like this.  He will need to deal with them.   In a way, it's part of developing character.  The adult's job is not to add unfair obstacles to trigger developing character.  But see if he can overcome.

 

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I've been gone this weekend and a lot has developed while I was gone. I am not going to comment further other than to state that the district is taking the issue seriously. I will not comment again until after the committee meeting tomorrow night.

I appreciate all the comments and i have my own opinions that may or may not be directly in line what others posted above - but for the benefit of my scout, I must continue to assume best intent even when occums razor would suggest otherwise.

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19 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

occums razor

Occam's razor ... I learned it long time ago, but I always wanted to be a Philosophy major ... but the major doesn't pay.  

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