Advancement question

[mashmaster]

My son who feel disenfranchised with Boy Scouts surprised me tonight after attending his second Sea Scout meeting.  He proudly tells me he is the Media Specialist for the Ship.  And starts listing off all the activities he signed up for tonight.   It made me smile, hopefully he has found his new happy place.

Anyway, he is a Star rank now.  I understand that he can still advance for Life and Eagle while a Sea Scout.  Does he have to be dual enrolled in a Boy Scout troop as well?  Or can the skipper just sign everything like a Scoutmaster?  I think single enrollment is ok. 

[Thunderbird]

After he earns First Class rank in a troop, he can continue to earn Boy Scout ranks in a ship, but he doesn't need to be dual enrolled anymore.

[mashmaster]

1 minute ago, Thunderbird said:

After he earns First Class rank in a troop, he can continue to earn Boy Scout ranks in a ship, but he doesn't need to be dual enrolled anymore.

Thanks, that is what I thought.

[Eagle94-A1]

If memory serves, just no 'double dippin" i.e. using the same POR for both Boy Scout and Sea Scout rank advancement, service project counts towards one rank or the other, etc.

Glad he found his happy place and good luck and fair winds to him. Not only do I hope he earns Eagle, but Quartermaster as well.

[qwazse]

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

If memory serves, just no 'double dippin" i.e. using the same POR for both Boy Scout and Sea Scout rank advancement, service project counts towards one rank or the other, etc.

Glad he found his happy place and good luck and fair winds to him. Not only do I hope he earns Eagle, but Quartermaster as well.

Actually, please do double dip on everything except the service project!

Quote

With the exception of the Eagle and Quartermaster service projects, any work done while a Sea Scout can count toward both Boy Scout and Sea Scout advancement at the same time. The Eagle and Quartermaster service projects must be separate and distinct from each other.  (https://www.scouting.org/resources/guide-to-advancement/mechanics-of-advancement/sea-scout/)

Thus, his time as media specialist counts as PoR toward Life Rank, and if he plans activities as a result of that position, that same time can be applied toward the leadership requirements of a Sea Scout rank. He doesn't have to serve six months as media specialist for Life or Eagle and then serve as an activity chair for Ordinary just because those positions overlap.

He can certainly have his Skipper fill the role of SM. Depending on the Ship's experience, he might find himself more responsible for the administration of his own advancement. (For example, he might have to explain blue cards to the skipper!) But, that's not a bad thing.

[CalicoPenn]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Actually, please do double dip on everything except the service project!

Thus, his time as media specialist counts as PoR toward Life Rank, and if he plans activities as a result of that position, that same time can be applied toward the leadership requirements of a Sea Scout rank. He doesn't have to serve six months as media specialist for Life or Eagle and then serve as an activity chair for Ordinary just because those positions overlap.

He can certainly have his Skipper fill the role of SM. Depending on the Ship's experience, he might find himself more responsible for the administration of his own advancement. (For example, he might have to explain blue cards to the skipper!) But, that's not a bad thing.

I think a clarification may be needed.

To earn Ordinary in the Sea Scouts, one must serve as an activity chair.  Since their is no corresponding position in the Boy Scouts, it won't serve as a POR for the Boy Scout ranks (there is a list of the leadership roles in the Boy Scout Requirements book that are acceptable Sea Scout alternates).  Media Specialist will, however, serve as a POR for the Boy Scout rank.  By the same token, Media Specialist will not serve as the leadership requirement for Ordinary because it is not a substitute for activity chair.   

For Able, one can either serve as an elected leader or serve as an activity chair for 2 events.  Just like above, if one serves as activity chair and not an officer, then one can't use activity chair as a POR for the Boy Scout ranks.  For Quartermaster, one must serve as an elected officer for 6 months so there would be no conflict.

Technically, if a Sea Scout working on Able or above is an elected officer of the Ship and is also working on a Boy Scout rank, it seems that the BSA is ok with "double-dipping" on it.   However, this is a good opportunity for the Scout to consider if that's how he (and soon to be she) wants to earn the award - it's up to them of course, but we would be remiss in one of the missions to help youth become the "best kind of citizen" if we didn't at least have the conversation on whether they feel they've "done the work".  Sea Scout ranks can be earned up to age of 21.  Unless they're in it as a "get the badge for the resume", it seems to me that we could encourage them not to count the time served for both ranks at the same time, at least at the level of Eagle Scout and Quartermaster.

[Eagle94-A1]

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

Actually, please do double dip on everything except the service project!

Thus, his time as media specialist counts as PoR toward Life Rank, and if he plans activities as a result of that position, that same time can be applied toward the leadership requirements of a Sea Scout rank. He doesn't have to serve six months as media specialist for Life or Eagle and then serve as an activity chair for Ordinary just because those positions overlap.

He can certainly have his Skipper fill the role of SM. Depending on the Ship's experience, he might find himself more responsible for the administration of his own advancement. (For example, he might have to explain blue cards to the skipper!) But, that's not a bad thing.

Interesting! Wonder when that changed because we had one guy in my Ship who was working on both Eagle and Quartermaster. Policy then was no double dipping. But that was 20+ years ago.

 

46 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

I think a clarification may be needed.

To earn Ordinary in the Sea Scouts, one must serve as an activity chair.  Since their is no corresponding position in the Boy Scouts, it won't serve as a POR for the Boy Scout ranks (there is a list of the leadership roles in the Boy Scout Requirements book that are acceptable Sea Scout alternates). 

Specialist would cover it. It was a catch all POR with folks focusing on special skills or assignments. I was a specialist for my ship, focusing on drill and naval customs. But event chair could fall under assigned leadership project for Star and Life.

[qwazse]

17 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Interesting! Wonder when that changed because we had one guy in my Ship who was working on both Eagle and Quartermaster. Policy then was no double dipping. But that was 20+ years ago.

 

Specialist would cover it. It was a catch all POR with folks focusing on special skills or assignments. I was a specialist for my ship, focusing on drill and naval customs. But event chair could fall under assigned leadership project for Star and Life.

I think the changes came with venturing. They were integral to my first VLST instruction.

1 hour ago, CalicoPenn said:

Technically, if a Sea Scout working on Able or above is an elected officer of the Ship and is also working on a Boy Scout rank, it seems that the BSA is ok with "double-dipping" on it.   However, this is a good opportunity for the Scout to consider if that's how he (and soon to be she) wants to earn the award - it's up to them of course, but we would be remiss in one of the missions to help youth become the "best kind of citizen" if we didn't at least have the conversation on whether they feel they've "done the work".  Sea Scout ranks can be earned up to age of 21.  Unless they're in it as a "get the badge for the resume", it seems to me that we could encourage them not to count the time served for both ranks at the same time, at least at the level of Eagle Scout and Quartermaster.

I agree and disagree.

My real-world experience is with venturers who, because they had PoRs in both units, spent consecutive years in leadership positions and took their good old time with rank advancement. With youth that dedicated, there's nothing to argue about. Something less esoteric would (e.g., too busy having fun to wrap up one requirement) slow the earning of awards concurrently.

In the cases where there could be overlap, I would rather those ambitious youth get both awards and then spend the rest of their career as marked men and women in both Boy Scout and Sea Scout circles.

[mashmaster]

6 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

If memory serves, just no 'double dippin" i.e. using the same POR for both Boy Scout and Sea Scout rank advancement, service project counts towards one rank or the other, etc.

Glad he found his happy place and good luck and fair winds to him. Not only do I hope he earns Eagle, but Quartermaster as well.

Thanks, I hope so too.  But right now advancement and merit badges are dirty words to him.  In his words "Dad, I soldered that kit for fun not a merit badge.  Why do I need someone to sign a card when I don't care about that?"  .  I shut up at that point other than to tell him to document what he does in case he wants credit for it at a later time.  Google sheets are a gift.

He is just turning 14 so, he may think differently later on.

[John-in-KC]

Moving this to the advancement forum

[qwazse]

17 hours ago, mashmaster said:

Thanks, I hope so too.  But right now advancement and merit badges are dirty words to him.  In his words "Dad, I soldered that kit for fun not a merit badge.  Why do I need someone to sign a card when I don't care about that?"  .  I shut up at that point other than to tell him to document what he does in case he wants credit for it at a later time.  Google sheets are a gift.

He is just turning 14 so, he may think differently later on.

I love this kid! Can we please clone him?

When will we scouters learn that our job is provisioning lunch/tent/ignition/construction/craft/soldering/chemistry kits in the process of making good on the promise of scouting, and the scout's job is cashing in on that promise and chasing blue cards and signatures in his/her own good time?

[HelpfulTracks]

In mashmaster’s defense, I told the same to my son and his reply to me was similar to mm jr’s. I encouraged him to track them for future reference. He didn’t follow that advice. Now as he is closing in on Eagle, he commented he wish he had tracked them as it would save the time and effort of re-doing some of the, now, mundane task.

I simply shrug and smile. There are a few life lessons in that exchange. I’m curious how many he recognizes.

[mashmaster]

On 8/18/2018 at 1:16 PM, HelpfulTracks said:

In mashmaster’s defense, I told the same to my son and his reply to me was similar to mm jr’s. I encouraged him to track them for future reference. He didn’t follow that advice. Now as he is closing in on Eagle, he commented he wish he had tracked them as it would save the time and effort of re-doing some of the, now, mundane task.

I simply shrug and smile. There are a few life lessons in that exchange. I’m curious how many he recognizes.

Yeah, we shall see what happens.  After his first trip with the Sea Scout ship, he is fully engaged and had the "best scouting time of his life" (his words).  In the car back we discussed how many hours he spent on the water to track and he started tallying the hours up.