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If you were asked to help start a Scouts BSA Troop for girls, would you?

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49 minutes ago, FireStone said:

Ever looked into the BPSA? They kind of do that already, just with more progressive membership policies (no restrictions of the basis of gender, sexual orientation, or religion). But their program is definitely old-school, primarily outdoor-focused and with a much shorter list of merit badges. 

A little bit. I’m going to one of their meetings with a friend for his diversity ticket item. 

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13 hours ago, Chris1 said:

I am not trying to start a fight, but just out of curiosity, which method(s) do you feel don't apply to or work for girls??

Adult Association??    Advancement??  Ideals??   Leadership Development???  Outdoor Program??   Patrol Method??   Personal Growth??   Uniform???

I don't want to argue about this, I just am interested in your perspective.

 

1 hour ago, blw2 said:

I think that I generally lean towards agreement with Latin Scots Point.  If you were asking me this question, I'd agree with qwazse about the uniform. 

The program format, being originally based as an outdoor program using things like patrols, uniforms, rank advancement are all rooted in military focus....more naturally boy focused.  Stereotype?  sure it is.... are there exceptions?  you bet!  But I feel like it's a safe bet that more boys than girls are typically drawn or are inclined to play "army", spy, indian tracker, woodcraft skills, getting dirty, and the like.  This is all the root of how it started based on what I've read.  BP wrote a book for military scouts, then somehow discovered that groups of boys were playing in the woods using some of it...so he wrote another book aimed more to a boy...using the natural draw of a boy to do these things.  At least that has been my understadning after having read some of BP's writings

On the other hand, girls generally (or stereo typically) aren't so into wearing military uniforms, caring about rank, and such...which is kinda the core of the primary method...and as they get older... the age of scouting's focus.... they are much more getting into 'looks' and style, keeping clean.  

What is the method of scouting?  I look at the overall method of scouting is "The Patrol Method".  All those other things you mentioned aren't really the method so much, or at least not the primary one in my thinking.  I think some of those are more like tools to use in working toward the aims of scouting (adult association, uniform, advancement maybe), or some such as ideals and personal growth fall more in line as parts of the aim of scouting...building character and all of that.

 

The Patrol Method is the means by which leadership development and personal growth are intended to be instilled.  The Outdoor Program can be viewed as an extension of how the Patrol Method gets realized.  This article is older, but still has some relevant items to learn from: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/09/05/patrol-method/

If you think about any of the "extensions" of Scouting- the OA, NYLT, even Wood Badge- they are organized around a patrol concept.  There's no doubt why so many threads here express frustrations on why units aren't making it a priority, or lamenting on changes that are making it more difficult to unfold, and that is because it is how BP himself saw as the program, no matter in which country scouting was in, and the Girl Guide program he championed was to be the same too. 

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9 hours ago, blw2 said:

I think that I generally lean towards agreement with Latin Scots Point.  If you were asking me this question, I'd agree with qwazse about the uniform. 

The program format, being originally based as an outdoor program using things like patrols, uniforms, rank advancement are all rooted in military focus....more naturally boy focused.  Stereotype?  sure it is.... are there exceptions?  you bet!  But I feel like it's a safe bet that more boys than girls are typically drawn or are inclined to play "army", spy, indian tracker, woodcraft skills, getting dirty, and the like.  This is all the root of how it started based on what I've read.  BP wrote a book for military scouts, then somehow discovered that groups of boys were playing in the woods using some of it...so he wrote another book aimed more to a boy...using the natural draw of a boy to do these things.  At least that has been my understadning after having read some of BP's writings

On the other hand, girls generally (or stereo typically) aren't so into wearing military uniforms, caring about rank, and such...which is kinda the core of the primary method...and as they get older... the age of scouting's focus.... they are much more getting into 'looks' and style, keeping clean.  

What is the method of scouting?  I look at the overall method of scouting is "The Patrol Method".  All those other things you mentioned aren't really the method so much, or at least not the primary one in my thinking.  I think some of those are more like tools to use in working toward the aims of scouting (adult association, uniform, advancement maybe), or some such as ideals and personal growth fall more in line as parts of the aim of scouting...building character and all of that.

Aims of Scouting are: character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness.  And the Methods of Scouting are the 8 items I listed. 

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35 minutes ago, Chris1 said:

Aims of Scouting are: character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness.  And the Methods of Scouting are the 8 items I listed. 

Perhaps that is where BSA has screwed up. BP, Phillips, "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt and others have all stated that the Patrol Method is the only method of Scouting.

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Respectfully, I think we're over thinking this.  Girls will not like uniforms because they feel the need to be sexy? Girls won't like advancement because it's too militaristic?  I don't think so.

I've got a 9 year old and a 14 year old daughter.  They are not too concerned with dressing sexy - actually it feel kinda odd even thinking about it.  Both daughters are in Girl Scout troops.  My older daughter's troop sets a high standard for uniforming.  All 12 girls in that troop do a great job of uniforming and I've never heard more than grumbles from my daughter.  My 9 year old's troop is much more lax and looks like a bunch of rag a muffins. If anything, I detect a sense of pride from the older girls that they look quite professional.

I think they'll do just fine with all eight methods.  

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3 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Respectfully, I think we're over thinking this.  Girls will not like uniforms because they feel the need to be sexy? Girls won't like advancement because it's too militaristic?  I don't think so.

I've got a 9 year old and a 14 year old daughter.  They are not too concerned with dressing sexy - actually it feel kinda odd even thinking about it.  Both daughters are in Girl Scout troops.  My older daughter's troop sets a high standard for uniforming.  All 12 girls in that troop do a great job of uniforming and I've never heard more than grumbles from my daughter.  My 9 year old's troop is much more lax and looks like a bunch of rag a muffins. If anything, I detect a sense of pride from the older girls that they look quite professional.

I think they'll do just fine with all eight methods.  

Agreed.

Looking at the girls in the UK who decide to be scouts rather than girl guides, they come because they want to be scouts. They look at it and that is what they want. The uniform is a little bit more formal than that of girl guides, the program is that much more adventurous. If they didn't want that they'd go to girl guides.

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23 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

No. I don’t have the time and energy for the baggage that would come with starting a troop for girls.

-ongoing struggle to find registered female leaders to be at every meeting and outing

-repeated meetings with Samantha Second Class’s parents to explain that unless they are registered ASMs, they cannot sign off for rank req in her handbook

-repeated meetings with Tammy Tenderfoots parents to tell them they cannot sign off on her merit badges because they are not registered MBC

-Paula Patrol Leader does not like to camp and quits attending meetings because she is in marching band. After scheduling multiple  SM conferences with her—and the registered female ASM as a witness—to explain the responsibilities of a POR and clearly stating the consequences of not doing the job, her term ends with her never doing the job. As SM, I won’t sign her book saying she satisfactorily completed the term—because she didn’t. This throws off her timing and plan to be the first female Eagle Scout in the troop and among the first in Council, so Mom and dad call the SE alleging sexual discrimination because I don’t want a girl to be Eagle

  

It seems like each of these could, does, and has occurred with boy Scouts as well. Subtract the irrational lawsuit fears from the last item and that applies, as well. Why do you think girl Scouts would be more of a problem in this regard?

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On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 10:34 PM, Saltface said:

Lately, if I were asked to help start another boy unit, I'm not sure if I would do it.

On the other hand, some of us have been armchairing the idea of a completely rogue unit using the 1940s handbook and merit badge requirements. I'd do that.

I'm in for the 1940's unit.

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On 6/14/2018 at 10:32 PM, qwazse said:

Depends whose doing the asking. If it's a DE or other pro, no. If it's a CO, maybe. If it's 5 girls ... I've launched a crew for as much.

That's what got me. 

I've been approached by several parents and girls who are interested in starting a unit.  Talked to the COR who talked to the head of our Chartered Organization who gave approval.  Working with the Pack Committee and Cubmaster to start there and working with the COR to lay the groundwork with Scouts BSA in 2019.  I can't be SM (due to being SM of current Troop and the Advisor of the Venturing Crew) but I'm going to do everything I can to see the new Troop succeed. 

The powers that be are in agreement the Troop will be Youth Led and patrol based  That solves all the problems.  The youth leaders from the new Troop can coordinate with the current Troops youth leaders and decide what level of interaction the youth want.  Our current QM, who is in the Venturing Crew, has ideas of how to share gear (the Troop and Crew currently share gear).  The incoming SPL as well as the outgoing SPLs and ASPLs of the Troop are all on board with inviting the Crew and potential female recruits for the New Troop over age 14 to the Troop's Leadership Development campout in the fall.  

As for adults, our former Crew President has agreed to be an ASM when she turns 18.  We have several Assistant Scoutmasters who have daughters who are interested and we expect them to shift their primary registration over to the new Troop.  We have someone who we think will step up to be the Scoutmaster and we have several woman who are willing to provide leadership on the Committee and on outings.

On 6/14/2018 at 9:15 PM, shortridge said:

The title says it all. If you had the time, would you help get a stand-alone, non-linked Scouts BSA troop for girls off the ground?

For those who answer yes, how would you do it?

So it isn't a "stand-alone" Troop but I'm not sure that makes a difference.  It will meet on a different night and have different youth leadership and different adults.

The key is getting enough members.  Those of us working to get this going will be doing some marketing later this summer having the local weekly paper do a profile on the Pack, current Troop, Crew and future Troop.  We will also reach to the other Troops in the area and see if there are Scout aged sisters and the Packs in the area to see if they are going co-ed in September.    We hope to have multiple trained youth leaders by February so that whoever is elected as SPL and PL know what they are doing.  Our leadership training focuses on youth-led, patrol method and servant leadership and we are adding a "project management and planning" segment (drawn from the Venturing materials).  We have the first meeting, they form patrols, they elect leaders and then the Troop is off.  Train them, trust them and let them lead.

Edited by Hedgehog
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No. Scouting has walked away from me, and I'm not chasing it down. I'm ready to be done after the LDS exit on 12/31/19.

The only way I would say yes is if my daughter was doing the asking.

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Yes absolutely.  As a father of daughters who were Girl Scouts and seen first hand how the program didn't work I would love to help guide girls if they wanted to scout.

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I don't have daughters, and am committed to helping our all-boy Troop, but if a girls' Troop needs a female to go along on a campout, I would volunteer to do that or other small tasks if I had the time available to help and all they need is a female to tag along. 

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