Jump to content
Hawkwin

LDS girl wants to be a scout - BSA or GSUSA

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, gblotter said:

That idea was actually proposed by some of our Scouts - just continue the troop but with a different chartering organization. While that sounds fine, I doubt we could find enough adult support without the push of the church behind it.

For my own personal situation as Scoutmaster, I will exit BSA on 12/31/19 over disillusionment with the girl decision. The needs of boys now bow before the god of inclusiveness, and that feels like a betrayal. It's time for me to make way for a new kind of Scout and a new kind of Scouter and a new kind of Scouting.

We got our second girl tonight in our Den. She is the granddaughter of a 40 yr LDS Scouter from the next county over. He has more ribbons on his shirt than any other scouter I have encountered. He stated that he has raised many Eagles both with in his family and of course in his Pack/Troop experience. 

He indicated that probably only a few families in his Pack (he is a Den Leader currently), will be continuing past 2019 but he is doing EVERYTHING he can to ensure his LDS granddaughter can be a scout.

I found the dichotomy very interesting but did not press for deeper details.

Edited by RememberSchiff
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

he is doing EVERYTHING he can to ensure his LDS granddaughter can be a scout.

His LDS granddaughter could always be a Scout. It's called Girl Scouts USA.

 

6 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

I found the dichotomy very interesting but did not press for deeper details.

Yes - interesting.

Not every LDS Scouter thinks as I do.

Not every non-LDS Scouter thinks as you do.

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, gblotter said:

His LDS granddaughter could always be a Scout. It's called Girl Scouts USA.

And presumably he knows that, and has apparently decided that his granddaughter would be better off in the BSA than the GSUSA.

I have a step-granddaughter who is of Cub Scout age and I have mentioned to my son-in-law (the girl's father) that she is (or soon will be) eligible to join the Cub Scouts, but his reply was basically that he is an atheist and is not interested in having his daughter in an organization that would not have him as a member.  He doesn't seem very interested in having her being a Girl Scout either.  I think it's kind of a shame, but she is not my child, nor my child's child, for that matter.  (I do have a grandson living 3,000 miles away from me, whose mother apparently still has not forgiven the BSA for banning gay people, even though they don't anymore.  I do still have hope for having a grandchild(ren) in Scouting through my son the Eagle Scout, who is married but is showing no signs of rushing into parenthood.) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NJCubScouter said:

I have a step-granddaughter who is of Cub Scout age and I have mentioned to my son-in-law (the girl's father) that she is (or soon will be) eligible to join the Cub Scouts, but his reply was basically that he is an atheist and is not interested in having his daughter in an organization that would not have him as a member.  He doesn't seem very interested in having her being a Girl Scout either.  I think it's kind of a shame, but she is not my child, nor my child's child, for that matter.  (I do have a grandson living 3,000 miles away from me, whose mother apparently still has not forgiven the BSA for banning gay people, even though they don't anymore.

This sounds about like what I would expect.

BSA attempts to conform to liberal social values will not halt membership declines. Activists will always have another ax to grind. Any gains from liberal/progressive families (who generally have fewer kids) will not be enough to replace the losses from conservative/traditionalist families who quit the movement.

May I suggest that this tangent discussion belongs over in the Issues and Politics section?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, gblotter said:

His LDS granddaughter could always be a Scout. It's called Girl Scouts USA.

They tried that and hated it. Troop fell apart multiple times - an experience I share.

Again, this guy, much like me, travelled to another country to get his granddaughter into Scouts. I would imagine he put some considerable thought into the decision.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

A fellow scout leader once described Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts as being like baseball and soccer.  Yes, they are both sports, are player outdoors, have teams, and use a ball.  But, they are different.

I'm sure some folks from an LDS background will embrace girls in Cub Scouts.  They'll look at the program on it's merits and choose.

Actually, thinking about it, I don't see why lots of LDS wouldn't check out Cub Scouts for girls.  Now that it's becoming just another extra curricular activity why wouldn't they?  I presume LDS families participate in other co-ed activites.

 

Edited by ParkMan
Spelling error

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No doubt BSA'll get a slice of LDS youth ... just not the whole pie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I'm sure some folks from an LDS background will embrace girls in Cub Scouts.  They'll look at the program on it's merits and choose.

Actually, thinking about it, I don't see why lots of LDS wouldn't check out Cub Scouts for girls.  Now that it's becoming just another extra curricular activity why wouldn't they?

Could be.

My son had a great experience in Cub Scouts, but aside from that I’m rather detached from the program. I view Cubs as a fun activity program but mostly lacking in substance as compared to Boy Scouts. I feel no particular emotion about girls entering the Cub Scouts.

It’s a completely different story with girls entering the Boy Scout program. Enough has already been said there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The LDS Church is not just dropping Scouts, they are replacing them.

BSA may get a slice of the pie short term as the young men try to finish Eagle.  Long term, I am afraid they will only get crumbs. 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

The LDS Church is not just dropping Scouts, they are replacing them.

BSA may get a slice of the pie short term as the young men try to finish Eagle.  Long term, I am afraid they will only get crumbs. 

I concur. A key deterrent for LDS families will be the Sunday activity program of many non-LDS packs and troops.

We actually investigated a non-LDS pack for my son back in the day. They had an attractive and energized program, but every premier event (Pinewood Derby, Raingutter Regatta, Rocket Launch, etc) was scheduled on Sundays. Regretfully, we had to say no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

The LDS Church is not just dropping Scouts, they are replacing them.

BSA may get a slice of the pie short term as the young men try to finish Eagle.  Long term, I am afraid they will only get crumbs. 

My church has a youth group - so do many.  That doesn't prevent the kids from being interested in Scouting.

I get that in general the LDS community is more insular.  But don't LDS kids play baseball, soccer, fencing, etc...

BTW - I'm not suggesting that Scouting will get a large percentage of LDS kids - just wondering if it will be similar in number to other denominations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

And presumably he knows that, and has apparently decided that his granddaughter would be better off in the BSA than the GSUSA.

I have a step-granddaughter who is of Cub Scout age and I have mentioned to my son-in-law (the girl's father) that she is (or soon will be) eligible to join the Cub Scouts, but his reply was basically that he is an atheist and is not interested in having his daughter in an organization that would not have him as a member.  He doesn't seem very interested in having her being a Girl Scout either.  I think it's kind of a shame, but she is not my child, nor my child's child, for that matter.  (I do have a grandson living 3,000 miles away from me, whose mother apparently still has not forgiven the BSA for banning gay people, even though they don't anymore.  I do still have hope for having a grandchild(ren) in Scouting through my son the Eagle Scout, who is married but is showing no signs of rushing into parenthood.) 

That is an interesting response. Was he ever planning to be active as an adult leader? Could he consider allowing his daughter to make that choice? Is he just making a political statement?

You probably don't know the answer and I understand it doesn't matter because it isn't any of your business. I only wonder about it because we had several scouts with atheist and gay parents. And even thought they couldn't join he BSA officially, they still actively supported the program.

Barry

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

My church has a youth group - so do many.  That doesn't prevent the kids from being interested in Scouting.

I get that in general the LDS community is more insular.  But don't LDS kids play baseball, soccer, fencing, etc...

BTW - I'm not suggesting that Scouting will get a large percentage of LDS kids - just wondering if it will be similar in number to other denominations.

For LDS families, Scouting will compete with many other activities, including sports, music, drama, and school clubs. Our church youth program generally occupies one night a week. My own family always gives careful consideration to overscheduling on the other nights. It a difficult balancing act to decide between many good choices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

My church has a youth group - so do many.  That doesn't prevent the kids from being interested in Scouting.

I get that in general the LDS community is more insular.  But don't LDS kids play baseball, soccer, fencing, etc...

BTW - I'm not suggesting that Scouting will get a large percentage of LDS kids - just wondering if it will be similar in number to other denominations.

Whatever the new program will be, I don't doubt it will be as involved and time-consuming as Scouting. The lucky Mormons are the ones that only have to attend three hours of church.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gblotter said:

This sounds about like what I would expect.

BSA attempts to conform to liberal social values will not halt membership declines. Activists will always have another ax to grind. Any gains from liberal/progressive families (who generally have fewer kids) will not be enough to replace the losses from conservative/traditionalist families who quit the movement.

Interesting how you can extrapolate a conclusion about large groups of people from what I say about TWO people (my daughter and my other daughter's husband), neither of whom you know, and about whom you know only the very small amount of information I have provided.  Here's a little bit more, in about four months my daughter who has the step-daughter is going to have a daughter of her own, and the demographic statistics would suggest that she is going to grow up to be one of nasty progressive liberals too.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×