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Hawkwin

National, Religion, Membership, Oath and Law

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49 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

how to make that beret look like Special Forces.

Cut out the liner.  Position the flash vertically over your left eye.  Pull everything else down flat to your buzz cut so that there is a bit of overlap covering your right ear.

At least that's how Rangers wore the black beret, back when it still meant something.   (Shinseki can apply oral vacuum to my gluteus maximus.)

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5 hours ago, gblotter said:

...Progressives may cheer these "inclusive" changes and celebrate their social victories, but they won't step forward to fill the void created by the departure of Scouting traditionalists...

On the contrary, I'm what you might call a progressive who has cheered these inclusive changes, and I just volunteered as recruitment chair to do my part and help grow our Pack. 

 

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2 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

That said, I still received an old-school scouting experience during those years.  My scoutmasters grit their teeth, shielded us from the more obnoxious elements of the ISP, and focused on traditional, outdoor-oriented scouting. 

Something similar is being done currently by some of the more traditional GSUSA leaders, since the current GSUSA program makes the outdoors completely optional.

I will find it interesting to see how many of them decide to switch scouting organizations to a more traditional scouting program (BSA) and how many will stick with GSUSA and make the best of it, given their long ties to that organization.

So despite the concerns some of you have that BSA is becoming too progressive by admitting girls,   I expect that some of the most "progressive" families may continue to prefer GSUSA for their girls, and BSA will get girls whose families don't mind the more conservative reputation that BSA has.

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5 hours ago, gblotter said:

@FireStone You capture the situation accurately.

It is clear that this girl decision is a calculated gamble for financial survival of BSA the corporation, necessitated by bloated salaries, foolish over-spending, and a $700M debt load for construction of The Summit. Reprogramming BSA for girls is a move of desperation now compounded by the departure of 425K LDS Scouts. The pessimistic side of me wonders if the LDS leaders (who are wise financial stewards) didn't want to stick around to be responsible for cleaning up the financial mess of BSA.

Progressives may cheer these "inclusive" changes and celebrate their social victories, but they won't step forward to fill the void created by the departure of Scouting traditionalists. BSA's gamble will be followed by even more desperate decisions upon realization that more boys are lost than girls gained for a net drop in membership. Within the next decade, I predict that GSUSA may become as irrelevant as Campfire Girls, and that BSA will seek some sort of bankruptcy protection/reorganization with likely sale of assets. How much will Philmont bring?

BSA loses, GSUSA loses, everyone loses - but especially the boys and girls lose. Truly a sad state of affairs.

It is better for the BSA to collapse than to persist as a vehicle of societal corruption. Particularly due to the BSA's historically wholesome and patriotic image from its past. This image makes the BSA especially dangerous, unfortunately, due to the arsenic it now carries. And that is why my family can no longer support any aspect of the BSA. I even made sure not to buy the 1911 handbook replica from the BSA, which I shall teach my son from. I found a 3rd party publisher.

Thankfully, there is now Trail Life USA. I'll use the 1911 handbook to supplement Trail Life.

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!"

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10 minutes ago, LegacyLost said:

It is better for the BSA to collapse than to persist as a vehicle of societal corruption. Particularly due to the BSA's historically wholesome and patriotic image from its past. This image makes the BSA especially dangerous, unfortunately, due to the arsenic it now carries. And that is why my family can no longer support any aspect of the BSA. I even made sure not to buy the 1911 handbook replica from the BSA, which I shall teach my son from. I found a 3rd party publisher.

Thankfully, there is now Trail Life USA. I'll use the 1911 handbook to supplement Trail Life.

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!"

There was a time when I was anti-BSA for my family, but I never wished for the collapse of the BSA. I was looking at another Scouting organization that fit what I wanted for my family. But I can't imagine ever having wished for the BSA to completely go away just because it didn't fit my morals and beliefs at the time. That logic just doesn't register with me, wanting something to go away just because you don't like it anymore. 

I wish you the best in TL and hope it fulfills what you are looking for. My family will continue with the BSA, and I will continue to support the BSA as an organization that still represents the moral, social, and spiritual values that align with my beliefs. I also still believe that kids are better off in Scouting than out of it, be that through the BSA, TL, GSUSA, BPSA, or any other alternative out there. If the BSA is no longer right for any families in my Den or Pack, I'd encourage them to continue Scouting in an organization that better fits their beliefs, and I would hope that they would do so without wishing for the demise of the organization that they are leaving behind and that I and many others still believe in. 

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On 5/13/2018 at 8:00 AM, RememberSchiff said:

Could you cite a source? I have not found a recent LDS statement regarding Scouts Canada which became coed 20 years ago

I found from https://globalnews.ca/news/4196815/mormons-severs-ties-boy-scouts-of-america/

The Mormon boys who will be leaving represent about 18.5 per cent of the 2.3 million youth in the organization (BSA).

More than half of the church’s 16 million members live outside the U.S. and Canada.

And from

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/faith/lds-church-announces-plan-to-drop-boy-scouts-of-america/article_20ed7ad9-ac1b-5c4f-bab7-5232ab8b8c9d.html

About a year ago, the LDS Church announced that young men ages 14 to 18 in the United States and Canada would no longer be participating in the Varsity and Venturing programs offered by the Boy Scouts of America and Scouts Canada. The change took effect at the beginning of this year (2018).

The source of the numbers are from Scouts Canada. Like in the US, the impact will be felt more in specific parts of the country. The council in southern Alberta, for example, with 6,100 kids, has 2,000 of those in LDS groups.

 

Allan.

Nonamess.png

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1 hour ago, JoeBob said:

Cut out the liner.  Position the flash vertically over your left eye.  Pull everything else down flat to your buzz cut so that there is a bit of overlap covering your right ear.

At least that's how Rangers wore the black beret, back when it still meant something.   (Shinseki can apply oral vacuum to my gluteus maximus.)

Great, thank you! Um ... what exactly is the "flash?" Sorry I have never worn a beret before, lol. 

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1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

A good (and sad) interview explaining some of the impact to an Idaho council.  😥

Clarke Farrer is obviously a very good man. What a pity that folks like him are not steering the ship at BSA National.

People of Clarke's ability will always be in demand should he decide to make a career change away from BSA as a result of these decisions.

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1 hour ago, LegacyLost said:

It is better for the BSA to collapse than to persist as a vehicle of societal corruption. Particularly due to the BSA's historically wholesome and patriotic image from its past. This image makes the BSA especially dangerous, unfortunately, due to the arsenic it now carries. And that is why my family can no longer support any aspect of the BSA. I even made sure not to buy the 1911 handbook replica from the BSA, which I shall teach my son from. I found a 3rd party publisher.

Thankfully, there is now Trail Life USA. I'll use the 1911 handbook to supplement Trail Life.

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!"

Really - over the inclusion of girls?

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6 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Really - over the inclusion of girls?

If you'd bothered to read any of his other posts, you'd see the real reason for his stance. But keep poking at it, it's a nice quality to see in people here.

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1 hour ago, FireStone said:

There was a time when I was anti-BSA for my family, but I never wished for the collapse of the BSA. I was looking at another Scouting organization that fit what I wanted for my family. But I can't imagine ever having wished for the BSA to completely go away just because it didn't fit my morals and beliefs at the time. That logic just doesn't register with me, wanting something to go away just because you don't like it anymore. 

I don't wish for the collapse of BSA, but I predict that it will happen as the organization becomes more separated from its core mission and values.

Unlike @LegacyLost , I don't view BSA as a force of evil or a vehicle of societal corruption. Rather I believe that BSA's desperate grasps at financial survival have severely compromised its ability to be force for good in the lives of boys.

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8 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Really - over the inclusion of girls?

He is referencing BSA's embrace of homosexuality and transgenderism - not the inclusion of girls.

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2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

A good (and sad) interview explaining some of the impact to an Idaho council.  😥

 

 

This was a fascinating, thoughtful,  and excellent interview.  Really gave some great answers on the practical side and the hopeful side of the changes coming to our org.

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