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LDS CHURCH ANNOUNCES INDEPENDENT ACTIVITY PROGRAMS BEGINNING 2020

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2 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

I heard many issues that happened at Jambo that made my blood boil.    Swearing was the least of those, but it doesn't make it meaningless.

When LDS parents send their son off to an event like National Jamboree, and then the boy returns home with stories of pervasive swearing (and other unScoutlike behaviors like patch stealing), it creates an impression that this is how Scouting works in a non-LDS setting. You can then understand a predictable level of concern over joining a non-LDS troop. In reality, the concern may unwarranted, but it is still understandable.

To be completely honest, my son expressed interest in attending World Jamboree next summer, but we detoured that pursuit because of these kinds of issues encountered at National Jamboree.

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I don't understand. The boys enjoy scouts. The parents enjoy scouts. The boys want to get eagle. The parents want the boys to get eagle. There was a discussion about whether non LDS troops would respect your beliefs. Why not just run your own troop? Like you already are doing? The loss of LDS scouts is fine by me, assuming the ones that enjoy it stay and the ones that don't enjoy it leave. Scouts making decisions and adults supporting them.

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10 minutes ago, gblotter said:

When LDS parents send their son off to an event like National Jamboree, and then the boy returns home with stories of pervasive swearing (and other unScoutlike behaviors like patch stealing), it creates an impression that this is how Scouting works in a non-LDS setting. You can then understand a predictable level of concern over joining a non-LDS troop. In reality, the concern may unwarranted, but it is still understandable.

To be completely honest, my son expressed interest in attending World Jamboree next summer, but we detoured that pursuit because of these kinds of issues encountered at National Jamboree.

It is the same with my Catholic boys. We don't like the behavior at the council run camps/activities, so we use our church owned/operated camps and set up our own activities. It works out much better that way.

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Just now, gblotter said:

When LDS parents send their son off to an event like National Jamboree, and then the boy returns home with stories of pervasive swearing (and other unScoutlike behaviors like patch stealing), it creates an impression that this is how Scouting works in a non-LDS setting. You can then understand a predictable level of concern over joining a non-LDS troop. In reality, the concern may unwarranted, but it is still understandable.

To be completely honest, my son expressed interest in attending World Jamboree next summer, but we detoured that pursuit because of these kinds of issues encountered at National Jamboree.

Not gonna lie. The casual use of discouraging words isn't just due to @gblotter's sensitivities. Sailing with my adult children has shown me that, although not nearly like a sailor, my choice of words could be better. We tease my daughter on the rare occasion she let's some "roughneck talk" slip. But, to most folks around, we seem like the epitome of discretion. As much as we are trying to re-shape our community, it is coloring us. The SM and I are often fighting such bigger battles that shoring up impertinent language sometimes feels like putting an adhesive bandage on an arterial bleed. And, our camp directors have helped us identify boys whose discourteous speech was heard on the trail. So, yes, in years past, signing off on a cuss going to Jambo would be the least of our concerns. The scout we sent last year was not in that category, but I have no doubt that a couple of scouts sent from the district were.

I appreciate the cautionary tales from recent Jamborees/Camporees and hope they will make me a better contingent ASM. Fourteen months ... we can make 'em cleaner, braver, reverenter?

Is there a published outline of what the young men's program for LDS is supposed to look like? I mean if it's gonna award achievement and character in some way like the BSA does, why worry about Eagle?

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8 minutes ago, MattR said:

Why not just run your own troop? Like you already are doing?

That idea was actually proposed by some of our Scouts - just continue the troop but with a different chartering organization. While that sounds fine, I doubt we could find enough adult support without the push of the church behind it.

For my own personal situation as Scoutmaster, I will exit BSA on 12/31/19 over disillusionment with the girl decision. The needs of boys now bow before the god of inclusiveness, and that feels like a betrayal. It's time for me to make way for a new kind of Scout and a new kind of Scouter and a new kind of Scouting.

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7 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Is there a published outline of what the young men's program for LDS is supposed to look like?

Nothing published yet.

When LDS dropped Varsity and Venturing for older boys, it was replaced with a flexible church youth program that allows boys to pick from a wide variety of activities (sort of cafeteria style). Categories include spiritual, social, physical, and intellectual. What's missing are the badges and rank advancements (which some here decry as an impure motivation, anyway). If the new church youth program to replace BSA looks anything like that, I think we will be just fine.

 

11 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I mean if it's gonna award achievement and character in some way like the BSA does, why worry about Eagle?

Eagle Scout will always hold a cachet separate from other youth programs.

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2 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Nothing published yet.

When LDS dropped Varsity and Venturing for older boys, it was replaced with a flexible church youth program that allows boys to pick from a wide variety of activities (sort of cafeteria style). Categories include spiritual, social, physical, and intellectual. What's missing are the badges and rank advancements (which some here decry as an impure motivation, anyway). If the new church youth program to replace BSA looks anything like that, I think we will be just fine.

It will be interesting to see if LDS re-purposes their existing BSA uniforms towards their new youth program. If not, imagine the economic impact to the BSA with all us thrifty scouts buying  pre-owned LDS uniforms.

 

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Just now, RememberSchiff said:

If not, imagine the economic impact to the BSA with all us thrifty scouts buying  pre-owned LDS uniforms.

I expect booming sales in framed display cases to hold all those LDS Scout uniforms and patches. Buy stock now!

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2 hours ago, gblotter said:

One example from last night's committee meeting: A Webelos Scout who has already finished his Arrow of Light does not turn 11 until October. He has no path to Eagle before 12/31/19.

A few other boys have very tight timelines. One missed deadline will derail their Eagle efforts unless they are willing to join a non-LDS troop in 2020.

Personally, I hate the pressure of such deadlines (even when it is a looming 18th birthday) because of compromised standards and corrupted motivations. However, as Scoutmaster I am here to support these Scouts and their families to achieve whatever goals they have in Scouting. 

"The Boy Scout program is for youth who are 11 years old, are at least ten years old and have finished the fifth grade, or are at least ten years old and have earned the Arrow of Light rank as a Cub Scout."

I know a ten year-old that started attending the EYO patrol after getting his Arrow of Light. It gave the Primary presidency fits, but they didn't stop him.

Edited by Saltface

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4 minutes ago, Saltface said:

I know a ten year-old that started attending the EYO patrol after getting his Arrow of Light.

After earning his Arrow of Light, my son immediately registered as Boy Scout to start working on merit badges and rank advancement while waiting for his 11th birthday. Our Cub program shuts down at the end of the school year, and it made no sense to idle away an entire summer with no Scouting whatsoever. However, out of respect for our EYO leader, my son did not start attending patrol meetings until his 11th birthday. That seemed like an acceptable compromise for everyone.

 

4 minutes ago, Saltface said:

It gave the Primary presidency fits, but they didn't stop him.

I make it a point to never cross the Primary President! - lol

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4 hours ago, gblotter said:

That idea was actually proposed by some of our Scouts - just continue the troop but with a different chartering organization. While that sounds fine, I doubt we could find enough adult support without the push of the church behind it.

For my own personal situation as Scoutmaster, I will exit BSA on 12/31/19 over disillusionment with the girl decision. The needs of boys now bow before the god of inclusiveness, and that feels like a betrayal. It's time for me to make way for a new kind of Scout and a new kind of Scouter and a new kind of Scouting.

I'll admit a bit of a smile here.  Welcome to the world of non-LDS Scouting.  There are never enough volunteers.  The church is just about never behind what we're doing.  No one is instructed to be a volunteer.  The volunteers are out there.  It just takes a little vision and persistence.  

We'd love to have you join the club :)

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9 hours ago, gblotter said:

When contemplating a non-LDS troop, there is some doubt/concern over respect for our beliefs (avoiding Sunday camping, etc)

I am sorry to hear about the negative Jamboree experience. I think one has to just look around and be open with the leadership of perspective troops, and find one that has values and standards that you can accept and support.  I am sure some units won't be willing to accommodate but others will. Try to meet them half way, don't expect them to not camp on Sundays, but I think it is reasonable for them to support your choice to leave Saturday night. You will have to realize that things will be done a bit differently.  But realize there are many LDS youth in community troops NOW, who are happy and accepted. 

And the option of moving the troop to a new CO and continue running it the same way. And there are always concerns about enough volunteers, but it can work.

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13 minutes ago, Chris1 said:

And the option of moving the troop to a new CO and continue running it the same way. And there are always concerns about enough volunteers, but it can work.

Since the LDS are forming a new program, I would imagine that they will be wanting to keep all their camping equipment.

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7 hours ago, David CO said:

Since the LDS are forming a new program, I would imagine that they will be wanting to keep all their camping equipment.

I'm not supportive of our troop purchasing new camping equipment because nobody feels ownership for taking care of it and it usually gets thrashed. For our campouts, the boys bring their own camping gear from home and that works out well.

Our troop closet holds a hodge-podge of old camping gear that never gets used. Generally, it is stuff that families discarded. I will likely do a mass clean-out and throw most of it away.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Chris1 said:

And the option of moving the troop to a new CO and continue running it the same way. And there are always concerns about enough volunteers, but it can work.

Possible, but unlikely. Under that scenario, our troop would need to find a new Scoutmaster. I will be ready to exit BSA on 12/31/19. I'm quite disillusioned over BSA's girl decision. This new Family Scouting is not for me.

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