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Scoutmaster denies 17 year old Life Scout Eagle

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Hey Beav!   Lawyering?  Mens rea?

Edited by TAHAWK
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... None of the instances you described either added or subtracted to requirements for advancement.

... wonder how the boys feel, and whether they were wven consulted, let alone make the decisions.

Imagine a 17 year old with all Eagle requirements but Camping MB with a creep total 19 camping nights and his birthday is on Sunday the CO's sabbath restriction suddenly becomes a barrier to advancement ...

 

Duty to God: through his appointees in whom your parents entrusted you, He commands you to not count any service for several months during your 13th or 14th year of life toward advancement.

Duty to Country: this nation needing competent workers, it is your duty to adhere to an academic regimen approved of by your parents. This regimen may require periods where certain extracurricular activities are suspended .., the suspension of which may delay your advancement.

 

Put that against "Hey kid, Michael DeLoVecchio says it's cool. grab your shovel."

 

How the boys feel? Inconvenienced, I suppose. Some may feel demoralized. But, boys come to me constantly feeling that way. I don't go marching into their lives all mother-bear at whatever institution is putting them to task. Plan A has a roadblock? Okay find a plan B! Apply the 8th point of the Scout Law and move forward.

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Imagine a 17 year old with all Eagle requirements but Camping MB with a creep total 19 camping nights and his birthday is on Sunday the CO's sabbath restriction suddenly becomes a barrier to advancement ...

 

Duty to God: through his appointees in whom your parents entrusted you, He commands you to not count any service for several months during your 13th or 14th year of life toward advancement.

Duty to Country: this nation needing competent workers, it is your duty to adhere to an academic regimen approved of by your parents. This regimen may require periods where certain extracurricular activities are suspended .., the suspension of which may delay your advancement.

 

Put that against "Hey kid, Michael DeLoVecchio says it's cool. grab your shovel."

 

How the boys feel? Inconvenienced, I suppose. Some may feel demoralized. But, boys come to me constantly feeling that way. I don't go marching into their lives all mother-bear at whatever institution is putting them to task. Plan A has a roadblock? Okay find a plan B! Apply the 8th point of the Scout Law and move forward.

 

In neither of these cases is anyone violating the "No council, committee, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to, or subtract from, advancement requirements" rule.

 

There's a big difference between (paraphrasing) "our UNIT will not approve an Eagle project unless the scout has been Confirmed" and (paraphrasing) "our CHURCH its prohibits confirmation candidates from participating in certain extra-curricular activities until after Confirmation".  One is a blatant violation of BSA rules, the other is not, even though they both may have identical outcomes.

Edited by MrBob

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In neither of these cases is anyone violating the "No council, committee, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to, or subtract from, advancement requirements" rule.

 

There's a big difference between "our UNIT will not approve an Eagle project unless the scout has been Confirmed" and "our CHURCH its prohibits confirmation candidates from participating in certain extra-curricular activities until after Confirmation".  One is a blatant violation of BSA rules, the other is not, even though they both may have identical outcomes.

 

Thank you!  That is exactly my point.

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So now that we have changed the prohibition of engaging in service projects to those who are "confirmation candidates," what is a "confirmation candidate"?

 

My CO defines Confirmation candidates as those who:

> are between the ages of thirteen and eighteen

> have received the sacraments of Baptism, Reconciliation, and Eucharist.

> are practicing their faith

> are in the state of grace

> demonstrate knowledge and understanding of the responsibilities of a member of the Catholic Church

> are aware of the initiation aspect of the Sacrament of Confirmation and be committed to continuing the faithful practice and study of their religion

> have a sincere desire to receive the sacrament as well as an appreciation of sacramental life.

> register with the parish for the sacrament of Confirmation 

 

This makes it quite possible for an Eagle candidate in our troop to be other than a candidate for confirmation.

Edited by TAHAWK

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Thank you!  That is exactly my point.

 

so... in the future, when you use the impersonal pronoun "we", please make sure WE know which "we" you're talking about  :)

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so... in the future, when you use the impersonal pronoun "we", please make sure WE know which "we" you're talking about  :)

 

Thanks.  That is always good advice.  We teach that at my school.  One should avoid using ambiguous acronyms and pronouns.

 

I looked back at my previous posts, and I couldn't find it.  I appreciate the correction, though, and I'll keep an eye out for it in the future.

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So now that we have changed the prohibition of engaging in service projects to those who are "confirmation candidates," what is a "confirmation candidate"?

 

My CO defines Confirmation candidates as those who:

> are between the ages of thirteen and eighteen

> have received the sacraments of Baptism, Reconciliation, and Eucharist.

> are practicing their faith

> are in the state of grace

> demonstrate knowledge and understanding of the responsibilities of a member of the Catholic Church

> are aware of the initiation aspect of the Sacrament of Confirmation and be committed to continuing the faithful practice and study of their religion

> have a sincere desire to receive the sacrament as well as an appreciation of sacramental life.

> register with the parish for the sacrament of Confirmation 

 

This makes it quite possible for an Eagle candidate in our troop to be other than a candidate for confirmation.

 

Yep, that is the definition of a Confirmation candidate.

 

Same here.  In a previous post, I told Chadamus that we do have non-Catholics in my school.  I also said that non-Catholic students go through the same Religion classes as the Catholic students.  They attend and observe, but do not receive the sacraments.

 

So non-Catholic scouts in my unit go through the Confirmation preparation along side their Catholic friends.  They attend the Rite of Confirmation as observers, but do not receive the sacrament.  

Edited by David CO

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Okay David, @@Stosh and I are about to derail another thread about this. So even more clarification please ...

Does this impact grades 6 through 8 or just 8th grade?

Are service hours for lower ranks in play here are just Eagle projects (because that's what pressured a 17 year old scout to put his soul in jeopardy once upon a time in the chronicles of your unit)?

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"Before anyone rants at the absurd context, the policy as described in by the other thread is to suspend service projects for a few months. Poor little 8th grader if he's taken two years to advance to Scout and can't take the heat because he has to wait until the end of the term. "

 

David can clarify this, but I thought the "suspension" was for as long as it takes for the Scout to complete Confirmation.  No Confirmation, no Eagle - because a Scout once finished Eagle before finishing Confirmation.

 

 

 

My CO has a service requirement that members are expected to complete as part of their preparation for Confirmation.   The CO doesn't want boys to be doing any other service projects that might compete with their time and energies until after they have received the Sacrament of Confirmation.

 

We won't approve an Eagle project until after Confirmation

. . .

One of our boys chose to not get confirmed so that he could do his Eagle project instead.  You can imagine how that went over.

 

Now we have a rule.

.

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Yes, Stosh. All Confirmation candidates. All service projects.

 

This is what got me off track.  How many years is one a confirmation candidate?  Just the one?  My confirmation ran 3 years, 6th, 7th and 8th grades.  That meant that under those circumstances, one would need to be in high school to progress beyond the Scout Rank.

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Okay David, @@Stosh and I are about to derail another thread about this. So even more clarification please ...

Does this impact grades 6 through 8 or just 8th grade?

Are service hours for lower ranks in play here are just Eagle projects (because that's what pressured a 17 year old scout to put his soul in jeopardy once upon a time in the chronicles of your unit)?

 

Good grief.

 

Do you really need to drag me into that idiotic thread?

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Good grief.

 

Do you really need to drag me into that idiotic thread?

Idiotic threads are my favorite. Which one is that? I think I am 20 pages behind in this one and trying to catch up. This one looks good again but I really want the juicy one.

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I have been making popcorn and reading this thread for days now. It's better than most tv shows. Although I must say the Beavers style of writing gives me a headache. But if you start another one I'm gonna need to run to Costco and buy a bigger box of popcorn

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I have been making popcorn and reading this thread for days now. It's better than most tv shows. Although I must say the Beavers style of writing gives me a headache. But if you start another one I'm gonna need to run to Costco and buy a bigger box of popcorn

 

 

Costco?  We've got boxes to sell --- Light, Kettle, Extra Butter?

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