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robert12

Update On Adult Leadership Standards

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A bit of knowledge about flag presentations might go a long way to show that this adult-led fiasco actually knows what it's doing.  Mr. Ego-SM out leading the line of flags? 3 US flags at one time?  Green shirt vs. the tan?  Looks like this guy might have missed the boat 40 years ago when they changed uniforms.  That is also the case of the scout in the upper left corner of the picture.  Are these really scouters or neighborhood organizers dressed up to look something like scouters?  All this picture does, regardless of the color of the flags, is show pride in how NOT to present the BSA to the world.  It basically looks like a spoof picture.

 

 

Hmmm - lot's more that 3 flags below

 

fourth-of-july-parade.jpg

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So they're stealing from the Boy Scouts of America - the charter does require the CO to either store the equipment and escrow the funds until they can form a new unit or turn the equipment and funds over to the BSA since the presumption is the funds were raised using the BSA brand and the equipment was purchased from funds raised using the BSA brand.  How very upright and moral of those folks.

 

Oh, now morality matters. :rolleyes:

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That would be interesting to watch.

 

Exactly! The CO did not want it. The unit took it to another CO, same district. So there's no harm or foul here. The CO, who would assuredly have the standing in any lawsuit as "owners" of the gear/money, was giving it to the unit. The unit took it. Frankly I don't see an issue here, morally or otherwise.

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Scouts%20at%20Pride%20Parade.jpg

 

Does this photo not make you think twice about what BSA has now allowed. A male adult scout leader is leading a group male scouts in a celebration of male on male sex. You can spin it anyway you want, but the rainbow flag is a symbol of the homosexual lifestyle and the homosexual lifestyle is about...gay SEX. Yes, it is about sex. So how can anyone say that sex has no place in scouting and will not be discussed, so allowing gay scouts and leaders wont be a problem. Clearly in this photo the enitre event is about sex and the scouts are used to promote it. Its about sex.

 

No, this photo does not make anyone who is pro-inclusion think twice about it, because they already know what goes on at pride parades and they don't think it's any different than seeing people in bathing suits at the beach.

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Hmmm - lot's more that 3 flags below

 

fourth-of-july-parade.jpg

 

:)  A simple Google search for the US Flag Code as prescribed by Congress is not that difficult to do,  Looking in one's Boy Scout Handbook is a bit trickier, but still doable by most literate people.  I do believe the T-FC requirements might have been pencil whipped on the flag decorum requirement by these scouts.  Sorry, ignorance is not something one wishes to parade down the streets of any city in America with a scout uniform on.  I'd do a review on this at the next BOR, but I"m thinking the adults are just as ignorant of the Flag Code as are the boys.

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SouthScout, what I see in that picture is Scouts marching in a parade that is at least partly political in nature, which they shouldn't be doing. I see some odd uniforming, in addition to what has already been mentioned, most of the Cub Scouts are wearing non-uniform pants, which is typical in our area but it looks stupid in a parade. Not to mention the adult leader trading salutes with the Scout in the front row, what is THAT all about? But I sure don't see what you're seeing. Everybody seems to be behaving themselves. Take away the rainbows and it looks like a St. Patrick's Day parade, without the beer.

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Stosh,

 

I wasn't commenting on whether it is right or wrong - I was commenting on what seems to be a specific criticism that you offered - that the group was marching with 3 US flags as if that's somehow not kosher.

 

Google Fourth of July Parade pictures and you'll find lots of examples where the flag code seems to have just been drop kicked to Kazahkstan

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If a group is marching as a color guard there should be only one US flag.  The multiple non-US flags means the one US flag goes out front and the Loser SM should not be leading the color guard.  There are so many things wrong with the picture other than scouts participating in a political parade.

 

The one big no-no I see all the time is the specific forbidden practice of horizontal display of the flag.  This is just as bad as having it on the ground.  The flag should be upright and flying free.  People, the US Flag Code is not that hard to find on the internet, just Google it and then teach your boys what is respectful and what isn't. 

 

@@CalicoPenn and yes, according to the US Flag Code, the scouts in the second photo are no more knowledgeable than those in the first photo.  I see it as the blind leading the blind and pencil whipping an "easy" requirement for T-FC.  Maybe if the Instructors were actually knowledgeable in their information we wouldn't have so many Paper Eagles out there.

 

By the way, some of my stickler to detail comes from my work with the Civil War Reenator Crew I was Advisor for.  We were demonstrating to the public a historical reality the best we could and yet there were less serious reenactors that basically were there doing KOA camping with a Civil War theme.  If people are coming and paying to see a historical drama acted out, the effort should be made to do it correctly.  Those who did not subscribe to that principle were called FARBs, or Far Be It from real.  If the public is looking up to the Scouts as those who exemplify doing it correctly, maybe the boys should take it seriously. (Otherwise they might as well be BOB.  Reenactor who's impression is such that they would be "Better Off Bowling" (BOB)

Edited by Stosh

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By the way, some of my stickler to detail comes from my work with the Civil War Reenator Crew I was Advisor for.  We were demonstrating to the public a historical reality the best we could and yet there were less serious reenactors that basically were there doing KOA camping with a Civil War theme.  If people are coming and paying to see a historical drama acted out, the effort should be made to do it correctly.  Those who did not subscribe to that principle were called FARBs, or Far Be It from real.  If the public is looking up to the Scouts as those who exemplify doing it correctly, maybe the boys should take it seriously. (Otherwise they might as well be BOB.  Reenactor who's impression is such that they would be "Better Off Bowling" (BOB)

I'm a former reenactor myself (it's been a while), and I agree with you about FARBs. Especially when doing a public educational display (excuse me, but they didn't wear sunglasses during the civil war, and no, you can't carry a samurai sword). Though it can be a real debate about how realistic to be (and at which point does your presentation move from educational family fun too a not-family friendly horror show).

 

Back when I was doing reenacting, the ww2 and civil war groups didn't allow women to do a male impression (i.e. dress up and pretend to be a man). Now days, I see more than a few women in the civil war groups doing male impressions (I haven't had contact with the ww2 groups in years - I have no idea what they are doing now). There was also the debates about language (use of the n-word), and how to present the more unpleasant side of things. Most just ignore the more unpleasant bits (because after all most people do this stuff for fun, and the bad stuff isn't fun). But there is a point where ignoring the unpleasant bits itself presents a false impression. It's can be an uneasy balance (think about the debates Colonial Williamsburg had about if and how to do slave auctions - it's important but NOT fun).

Edited by Rick_in_CA

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As there are competing threads on the topic, it is anybody's guess where I should post...but here are my naive experiences surrounding the recent policy change:

 

Four weeks ago, I was at camp. I ate lunch with SPL's from 5 different councils. We talked about camp, Scouts, and teenage life.

 

Three weeks ago, I was at camp. I ate lunch with SPL's from 7 different councils. We talked about camp, Scouts, and teenage life.

 

Last week I was not able to go to camp. I missed it.

 

Monday was the vote; I read about it online.

 

This Tuesday, I was at camp. I ate lunch with SPL's from 6 different councils. We talked about camp, Scouts, and teenage life.

 

I guess the kids this week hadn't heard the news, same sorts of comments as the other weeks.

 

(By the way in terms of common themes...these kids like Scouting and these teenagers are very open about Scouting with their friends in school, especially those in High School. And non-Scouts, according to their Scout friends, are often envious of Scouting activities. And also by the way, teenagers have their act together a lot more than we give them credit for, a lot more - ask a 15 year old what makes them happy and you might be pleasantly surprised.)

 

Anyway, I'll be up at camp next week. I think I am eating lunch with SPL'S from 6 different councils. We'll be talking about camp, Scouts, and teenage life.

 

I doubt there will be much different this next week.

 

I'm know the conversations of SPL'S around a table will mean absolutely nothing to some of our Charter Organizations considering whether to leave Scouting, after all adults, not kids, know what's best. It's just too bad that too often in our near future the choice of continuing Scouting will be made by those who value something other than Scouts.

 

Just needed to share. Thanks.

Edited by North Bay Scouter
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Do I value Scouting over my religion? No. Do I think the boys in my Church should value Scouting over their religion? No.

Edited by David CO

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Do I value Scouting over my religion? No. Do I think the boys in my Church should value Scouting over their religion? No.

I'd be curious what precept of your religion BSA involvement violates.

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I believe everyone's curiosity will be satisfied after the church leaders meet this month and issue public statements.  We've only seen the sneak previews.  More detailed statements are sure to follow.

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BSA didn't already have 80 years' worth of files on women who had sex with Scouts when they made that decision. 

We'll said Scouter99

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