Merit Badge Proposals

[Stosh]

I was kinda doing a redundancy thingy with the redundancy thread...  Maybe this should be a thread of it's own.  It talks about the need for Eagle MB's, MB's in general, and Redundancy requirements all together.  I'll just toss it out there and the moderators can decide what to do with it.

 

Are MB's a separate, independent program?  Could be, maybe should be.

 

Is there redundancy between advancement requirements and MB's?  Could be....

 

Just some thoughts

 

As an outdoorsman, I have always thought of the T-FC requirements as the minimum level of skill to go out in the woods and be self-sufficient enough that everyone else around you doesn't need to babysit you.  If an Eagle scout can't start a campfire, I seriously question his ability to be a genuine Eagle Scout.  Do scouts get lost in the woods?  Sure, but they also know the best way to get un-lost, too.

 

After the scout has completed the T-FC, or even while doing the T-FC skill training, the opportunity for, "Hey, that was cool, what's next?" should be there for him and here is where I see the boy breaking away form the requirements to get a greater degree of training in areas that are of interest to him.

 

Once a scout reaches FC, I'm satisfied he'll do well to enjoy his scouting career.  However, if he has had his advancement to FC pencil whipped and is a burden on the members of his patrol because he doesn't know what he's doing, he's pretty much useless and will definitely not enjoy the scouting experience.  This is how we get our Eagle scouts that can't start a simple campfire.  They are along for the ride and the reward and aren't interested all that much on the experience or journey.

 

If advancement quit at FC and the boys then had a smorgasbord of MB's to further their education, then I'm all for it.  That furthering of education doesn't need to even be advancement.   

 

If people don't think that T-FC is not enough to make a well-rounded scout, then beef up the T-FC requirements to where they would be and then have everything else electives.  Heck, even at that point, as long as the Scout is proficient in Scoutcraft, then they can add all the STEM MB's they want, even the classroom MB's are not a big deal then, if that's what the boys want, go for it  

 

If a boy loves the water, they should have an entire MB series on swimming, boating, fishing, etc.  If the boy loves nature, then there's conservation, forestry, ecology, recycling, environmental science, etc. to satisfy his interests.

 

I think the program can meet the interests of a wide variety of different personalities.

 

I'm thinking T-FC can be seen as a high school diploma or GED.  You are basically educated.

 

MB's become the college level education and then there are the second tier MB's that would offer an indepth look at subjects and maybe then the "Eagle Path" are earned at the PhD level. 

 

A MB at the college level degree of difficulty, then that same MB at the Masters and then a PhD level where the boy really knows his stuff and could have some sort of valuable expertise in that area.

 

Take cooking:

 

T-FC - Skills for feeding oneself and a small group (patrol)

Bachelor level - Dutch Oven, campfire cooking, developing and modifying recipes for the outdoors.  

Masters level - Backpacking foods, how to break down grocery store packaging into usable backpack treks, dehydrating one's own food, foraging in the wild,

PhD level - Cooking for larger groups, Specialty cooking (gravies, sauces, baking breads, muffins, in DO, etc.)  Making cheesecake in the DO instead of just cobblers.

 

There could be a handful of PhD required MB's that had pre-requirement MB's.  If PhD Cooking is required for "Eagle" then Bachelor and Master Cooking need to be done first.

 

I can see the Swimming following the same parallel levels of difficulty with PhD Swimming culminating with BSA Life Saving certification or maybe SCUBA certification

 

First Aid is another natural for the progressive levels of education  If the old Ranger award needed 125 hours of First Aid training (EMT certification) why couldn't that be the PhD level of First Aid?

 

I wouldn't even have a problem with STEM being a PhD level goal under these circumstances.  With all this talk about how most of the MB's are STEM oriented in the first place, why not apply it to the Scouting journey?  Science, Technology and Math all apply itself nicely to building catapults.  Why not take to to the next level beyond Popsicle stick catapults of the Cub program?

 

There's so much out there that is available and BSA is trending itself to FOLLOW what others are doing rather than taking the lead and setting the pace which they have 90% of the program skills already in place to do so. 

 

Is this going to produce redundancy in the program?  No, it will produce a progressively more challenging adventure in the area of interest.  There will be no question that what is being taught at the PhD level is not what was taught at the T-FC level.   

 

It also forces the BSA to categorize the curriculum to a progressively challenging path rather than willy-nilly wanderings it has in place now.

 

[MattR]

I'll bump this topic.

 

I like the idea of having levels of MBs. Scouts need increasing goals to keep them interested. By making them so an 13 year old can do them means by the time a scout is 17 he's bored with MBs and they are nothing but a time sink.  Grouping them into water sports or STEM is something to think about.

 

I like the idea of making First Class mean more than it does now. I'm not sure how to do that other than getting rid of FCFY and also doing better training for adults on what this means. Adding the old req to take your patrol on a campout would be great.

 

I don't like the idea of removing Star, Life, and Eagle. The Eagle project in our troop is a great challenge that most scouts would not do unless they had to. I wouldn't mind rewriting some of the requirements regarding service and responsibility. Using the higher level MBs for higher ranks would be nice.

 

I absolutely hate the idea of naming one of the levels PhD. That makes the Boy Scouts look like idiots to anyone that knows what a PhD is about. The "PhD of commissioner science" is embarrassing. Please use bronze, silver, and gold, or star, life, and eagle, or valley, timberline, and peak, or ....

[Stosh]

I'll bump this topic.

 

Thanks

 

I like the idea of having levels of MBs. Scouts need increasing goals to keep them interested. By making them so an 13 year old can do them means by the time a scout is 17 he's bored with MBs and they are nothing but a time sink.  Grouping them into water sports or STEM is something to think about.

 

I like the idea of making First Class mean more than it does now. I'm not sure how to do that other than getting rid of FCFY and also doing better training for adults on what this means. Adding the old req to take your patrol on a campout would be great.

 

I don't like the idea of removing Star, Life, and Eagle. The Eagle project in our troop is a great challenge that most scouts would not do unless they had to. I wouldn't mind rewriting some of the requirements regarding service and responsibility. Using the higher level MBs for higher ranks would be nice.

 

I tossed out another idea on a different thread relate to this.  Beef up T-FC, then do more real scouting for Star Life and Eagle that tie the leveled MB's to it.

 

 

I absolutely hate the idea of naming one of the levels PhD. That makes the Boy Scouts look like idiots to anyone that knows what a PhD is about. The "PhD of commissioner science" is embarrassing. Please use bronze, silver, and gold, or star, life, and eagle, or valley, timberline, and peak, or ....

 

Also in my other thread I also dropped the scholastic terminology and used basic, intermediate and advanced MB's.  Bronze, Silver, Gold work just as well.

 

I would kinda like to see the MB's done AFTER the boys develop sufficient skill with FC.  If we were to beef up T-FC, MB would serve as a distraction.  Some of those things that boys get credit for only after FC, like POR's could be "removed" from the advancement path as well so we wouldn't be wasting boy's time putting up with a PL that has to have a POR for advancement and has no interest in it other than wearing the patch and getting the credit. 

 

[skeptic]

Back in those "old" days merit badges were in groups, and some of the requirements at the higher level was to select from various groups, which tended to broaden the scout's perspective a bit, sort of like general ed does, or did, in college.  At the Explorer level, they had ratings, I would have to check, but about 14.  They each were equivalent to doing 4-6 merit badges in a specific area, and also had additional in depth details.  

 

Possibly reinstating an update of that might challenge some of the older scouts.  We had Explorer patrols then too, and we could earn their advancements while still in the troop; or we could break off into a separate post, and co-register in the troop.  That allowed units with too few interested older boys to still participate in the Explorer program.

 

I know the changes they made about 1959 really hurt the Explorer program in our area, and it pulled an interesting advancement option out from under many of us.

[RememberSchiff]

My perspective from the past

 

T-FC is where basic scoutcraft skills are taught and signed-off by scouts. A FC scout should be "self-reliant, resouceful - able to take care of" himself.

These skills were practiced at troop meetings and further tested in patrol competitions withing troop, Klondike, camporees,... What if, T-FC had a patrol competition point requirement - a scout would have to participate in patrol scoutcraft competitions in the past year and have earned x points?

 

Eagle required scoutcraft MB's is where more advanced scoutscraft skill are taught and signed off by knowledgeable adults.

These skills are practiced teaching younger scouts. What if a scout had to keep a log of the skills and scouts he taught and this log is a Star-Eagle requirement.

 

I like skeptic's reminder of the merit badge groups of old. Fewer (8) but more comprehensive required merit badges. First Aid with added wilderness first aid skills. One Citizenship MB focused on your rights and responsibilities not civics, no Communications leave that for schools, Select one from Fitness Group: Swimming, Personal Fitness, Athletics, Cycling,...

 

Eagle projects were once a scout's own labor using skills developed in scouting. Managing others on a project was not the point, afterall the scout had already lead his patrol on hikes and campouts often without adults. Personally I would prefer Eagle candidates plan and lead a solo trek as I have seen too many Eagle projects by adults. College admission paperwork is easier! So for Eagle, give the scout an Adventure Trek option or the Project Management Option.

 

My $0.02 ,

[DuctTape]

Another way to accomplish the same idea is to have some merit badges be pre-requisites for others.

 

Camping and hiking as pre-reqs to do backpacking for example.

 

Camping and first aid before wilderness survival.

 

Etc...

[Stosh]

I was thinking more along the lines of a progressive MB on the same subject,  Kinda like Cooking A, B and C.  That way the younger boys can be challenged by getting started going shallow and wide and the older boys can dive deep at a more interesting level.  We already do what you're suggesting in a couple of instances.  I'm thinking expanding deeper into the T-FC skills to the point where making menus and serving a small group hobo dinners, could be taken to the "OMG - You made that in a Dutch Oven?!!" level. 

[walk in the woods]

I posted in a thread long ago the idea of moving the SLE ranks and MB program into Venturing, then using the award structure to create multiple tracks to the highest ranks in scouting.  If we did that we could change the Boy Scout program into a middle school program with scouts focused exclusively on scout/woods skills.  No need for FCFY, Trail to Eagle or MBs at summer camp, the boys could just go play in the woods.  The Venturing program would have multiple 3-tier highest awards for scouts to choose from, Quartermaster, Ranger, Quest, Trust, Eagle, and whatever I'm forgetting.  The structure would also give the ability to bring in other disciplines, Air Scout Aces, Shooting Sports Sharpshooters, etc..  MBs could be used as the basis for some of those tracts or just for fun and Stosh's tiered MB structure would fit perfectly.  The other thing we could do is then use the Venturing Award level as a way for non-boy-scout Venturers to level up to FC so they could still achieve the upper awards.

[RememberSchiff]

Another way to accomplish the same idea is to have some merit badges be pre-requisites for others.

 

Camping and hiking as pre-reqs to do backpacking for example.

 

Camping and first aid before wilderness survival.

 

Etc...

Maybe, First Aid MB is a prereq for Emergency Prep MB but often around here First Aid is taken concurrently.

 

Is it me or is there a growing Eagle-Before-High-School movement by scout families, i.e., push hard to earn Eagle before 9th grade, otherwise drop out. Summer camp Trail-to-Eagle programs are overfilled with rising 8th graders. Coincidence?

[andysmom]

 

 

Is it me or is there a growing Eagle-Before-High-School movement by scout families, i.e., push hard to earn Eagle before 9th grade, otherwise drop out. Summer camp Trail-to-Eagle programs are overfilled with rising 8th graders. Coincidence?

 

It is because the demands of High School are increasing exponentially.

In our district 9th graders have the option of taking classes for college credit, taught in High School by a college professor, in 10th and 11th grade they can spend 1/2 their day at a local university.

We have kids graduate from high school and receive an associates degree the same day.

[skeptic]

"It is because the demands of High School are increasing exponentially."  What is sad is that with all this pressure in high school, the level of education is getting worse and worse.  There is a higher percentage of remediation needed in college now for incoming students than ever.  So, with all this high school regimen,  what are they teaching?  Most of us on these forums went to school with far fewer academic offerings in high school, though more emphasis on vocational skills. I would wager that most of us had far better basic academic skills on HS graduation than those today.

 

On the subject in the thread, I could go along with a coalescing of lower scout ranks and older boy programs to allow earning various challenging higher awards on the line that D.C. discusses.  But I would hope we would still keep more or less the current path as one option.

[Stosh]

It is because the demands of High School are increasing exponentially.

In our district 9th graders have the option of taking classes for college credit, taught in High School by a college professor, in 10th and 11th grade they can spend 1/2 their day at a local university.

We have kids graduate from high school and receive an associates degree the same day.

 

What we have to remember with today's kids, some parents want their kids to be farmers and others want them to be gardeners.  Farmers get paid to produce food to feed the body and gardeners for fun grow flowers to feed the soul.  

 

My kids are gardeners, my wife's kids are farmers.    We have three grandkids from my kids and none from hers.  The only marriage of her kids has already ended in divorce.

 

We all need to pick our poison and learn to live with it.  It is during the formative years of scouting that these decisions get made.

[RememberSchiff]

"It is because the demands of High School are increasing exponentially."  What is sad is that with all this pressure in high school, the level of education is getting worse and worse.  There is a higher percentage of remediation needed in college now for incoming students than ever.  So, with all this high school regimen,  what are they teaching?  Most of us on these forums went to school with far fewer academic offerings in high school, though more emphasis on vocational skills. I would wager that most of us had far better basic academic skills on HS graduation than those today.

 

On the subject in the thread, I could go along with a coalescing of lower scout ranks and older boy programs to allow earning various challenging higher awards on the line that D.C. discusses.  But I would hope we would still keep more or less the current path as one option.

From my 50's/60's suburban public school experience, I fully agree. Rant warning.

We had

   - FULL SCHOOL DAYS (8am to 3pm, and over 180 of them), usually 5 days a week and NO HALF days until last week in June.. In March with standardize tests, teacher professional days, and teacher/parent days, my younger son had just 9 full days of school. Why was there a week spring break in April, oh because there was a winter break week in Feb despite all the snow days. No month has a full month of school! Sorry kids, you should be in school on Columbus Day, Veterans Day, especially Martin Luther King Day, Presidents Day, Patriots Day, and Memorial Day to learn the meaning of these days - not sleeping late, playing Xbox, or going to the mall.

   - dedicated, even some expert teachers who were available every day after school to help students. Don't know, you don't teach.

   - no need for standarize tests as your weekly tests/quizzes naturally followed the curriculum.

   - not everyone wanted or needed college. In secondary schools, we had General, Vocational, College Prep, and Special Ed core curriculums.

   - smaller classes.

   - substitute teachers with teacher's black assignment book, not study halls.

   - lower education costs. We had the teacher, a text, and maybe mimeograph hand out. No pc's with curriculkm software licenses (for algebra give me a break) etc draining education funds. School buildings were sufficient not 100million dollar showcases. There is a growing mindset around here that school buildings only last 30 or 40 years, let's put our tax money in building instead of educating or even building maintenance.

   - we had homework, we carried our books home.

   - we ate breakfast at home, dressed according to school dress code, supplied our own slide rules (Pickett for me, K&E for rich kids), and brought our brown bag lunch. Schools were expected to focus on education and sports. Parents were expected to be parents.

   - schools were run by town school boards not unaccountable regional, state, or federal groups, and certainly not teacher unions. Not perfect, but I will take local controi and only use local money anyday. Granted civil rights and criminal issues would still require external agencies.  

   - discipline. Rules applied to all, even this Eagle Scout got detention for not following a simple rule. Ferris Buehler would have repeated his senior year at my high school. No social promotions or graduations. Oh YEAH.

End of Rant.