When do you test?

[Beavah]

Yah, SR540 my fellow Beaver brought up an interesting question in da parent thread that I didn't want to get lost.

 

For advancement,

 

Step 1: A Scout Learns

Step 2: A Scout is Tested

 

In your programs, how do yeh separate the two? Do different people test then do the instruction? Do yeh build in a delay so that the scout can practice and improve, or do yeh test immediately after he has been taught the skill? How much experience does a lad have with the skill at the point when he is tested? Does it vary for things that yeh feel are "less important" in your troop?

 

Beavah

 

[dg98adams]

Hmmm....

 

I think for the most part:

 

Step 1.1 - 1.4 Repetition/using it, both on his own and with help.

 

Step 1.5: A Scout demonstrates the skill (verbally or physically), at an interval between Step 1 and Step 2 that both he and the PL/SPL/Scouter (whoever is working with him) is comfortable with.

 

Some skills like cooking, swimming, camping, lashings & 1st aid for example can take several weeks/months to go from learning to "attain the needed skills".

 

 

Would delaying a Scout to Tenderfoot advancement to the next Troop meeting make sense if the Scout can demo the requirements without the book? Nope.

 

 

[UCEagle72]

As ASM & SM, we did a lot of skills at Troop Meetings and camp-outs.

 

In the "olden days" the process was "build skills for three weeks - test on the 4th."

 

At camp-outs we did skills on Friday night and Saturday, and testing starting Saturday night and Sunday (we did not leave camp early Sunday morning, we usually stayed past lunch, then headed home).

 

[John-in-KC]

There are some requirements which are truly "complete the event," such as for 2d Class:

 

Participate in an approved (minimum of one hour)service project.

 

 

Or, for 1st Class, requirement 4c:

On one campout, serve as your patrol's cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in require- ment 4a. Lead your patrol in saying grace at the meals and supervise cleanup.

 

Knowing which requirements are "performs" with a final end component, and being able to differentiate them from "building blocks" which are increments of skill knowledge, is part of what a SM has to impart to his ASMs, SPL, ASPL, and PLs.

[SeattlePioneer]

A hundred men will test today....

 

 

But only three win the Green Beret!

[Eagle92]

Me personally I want the Boy Scout, Sea Scout, or Venturer to be able to demonstrate the skill withou any help at all to me before I sign off on it. With Cubs, because we have them "Do Your Best" I will cut them some slack.

[boomerscout]

we never test & teach on the same campout. There is enough of a mental echo that material presented on a friday or saturday can still be regurgitated saturday or sunday without it passing into long-term memory.

For some merit badges, such as crafts, this is not too important. For others that are purely physical, such as swimming, if he can do the course he passes. Other mb not only have a great deal of material, but it all needs to be learned & performed correctly, such as first-aid; this cannot be done in one time frame.

We like to have the judge (who signs off) be different than the trainer. One reason is that this is also a check on the trainer's knowledge. Second is that if the trainer judges, it may be human nature to pass everyone just to show he (the trainer) did a good job training.

[Twocubdad]

As J-n-KC notes, it depends on the requirement, but for thinks where retention is an issue, first aid or knot tying for example, our rule of thumb is teach and test at least a day apart. Of course "a day" is measured with the same precision as a Scoutmaster's "minuted".

 

But it all depends. If I teach a kid a knot in the morning, I see him working on it all day, and he approaches me for a sign-off in the afternoon, I'm good with that.

 

The thing we try to train our ASMs to avoid is having a Scout ask for a sign-off, flub the test, the ASM re-teaches the skill, then immediately retests the Scout, that's a problem. No way to know if the Scout really learned the skill or is just relying on short term memory.

[Basementdweller]

Who is YOU?

 

Who is asking for and examining the test?

 

 

I am reading here a lot of adults are instructing and then testing.....

 

Is that what we are after?

 

The adults in our troop have very little do do with advancement, other than doing a little observation/quality control from afar.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[evmori]

The testing, to me, is nothing more than repetition of a taught skill with someone, can be an adult or youth, assisting where needed.

[SeattlePioneer]

You guys are TOUGH!

 

 

Personally, I tend to be not so tough. A Scout who has completed a tarining regiman and performed the skill during the course of the training tends to get it signed off if it has been done with a degree of competence.

 

I tend to look for opportunities or games that require the use of the skill to further develop it and cause it to be practiced.

 

Perhaps more to the point in BOY LED troops, what standards do your Scouts use before signing off requirements?

[qwazse]

Read the book.

Show the book.

Do the book.

 

If a boy can "Do" confidently the same day after going through the above teaching method, he can usually perform a week after. The trick is to get him to go through those steps with another boy shortly thereafter. (Oh no! There's no place to sign off for teaching each skill to another boy. Double Oh no! It doesn't spell EDGE!! My boys are doomed!!!)

 

We allow ASM's to sign off, but we don't want to see signatures from a boys parents. (Uncle? Well, we're trying to sort that one out!) Even so, when a boy asks us for a sign off, we usually send him to his PL. The PL's are trained to see the skill performed. All of this run-around usually causes a "re-testing delay" without making it very formal.

[SR540Beaver]

You know, the question was already being discussed in the other thread. I see no reason for 50 fractured threads on the same subject. It breaks the flow of the conversation and gets confusing trying to figure out where somebody said something a day or two ago. Let's just let the threads flow naturally please.

[CalicoPenn]

To paraphrase a famous quotation: "Tests? Tests?? We don't need no steenkin tests".

 

1) The Scout Learns

2) The Scout Completes the Requirement

 

The Scout demonstrates, shows, does, reports, discusses, prepares, creates, etc. etc. I've yet to see a requirement that says "pass a test".

 

Maybe it's because when I think of a "test", I think of someone sitting in a room with paper and pencil answering questions, or being subjected to a rigourous examination of skills. Perhaps it's just a matter of semantics.

 

If the Scout is looking for a sign-off on a bowline, he asks for a sign off, demonstrates that he can tie a bowline, and tells about the uses of a bowline. I listen, I observe. I'm not testing. I'm watching/listening to a Scout show off. If the Scout shows me he can tie the knot, and gives me good examples of its use, he gets signed off. If he's struggling with the knot, I help him get past where he's not getting it, letting him go practice, and wait for him to show off again. If he gets the sign off this week and struggles to tie a bowline down the road, I'm going to be trying to figure out where the program is failing to provide opportunities to practice the skills.

 

I see testing as tossing the Scout a piece of rope and telling him to tie a bowline. Testing makes it all seem so formal. That's just not my style. And it certainly has no place in a Board of Review.

 

I also don't see anything that requires one to be proficient in a skill to get a sign off. I tend to think of someone with advanced skills as being proficient, and proficiency most often comes with continued use, not continued practice. In my opinion, it's not enough to practice a clove hitch over and over again to become proficient at it - to be really proficient at it, you have to use the clove hitch often in real life situations, to really understand a clove hitch - that's advanced skills - that's proficiency.

 

 

[acco40]

For a Scout who has had a particular scout skill based requirement signed-off but I don't feel he doesn't have a real mastery of that skill, there is a real simple solution that I use - I make him an instructor of that skill and have him teach it to less experienced Scouts.

 

I found that when going to school, I would finally learn Trigometry by taking Calculus. I finally mastered Calculus when I took differtial equations, etc. Same for Scouting.(This message has been edited by acco40)